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New Chrysler E-Rev (ENVI)

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#22
DDB said:
doug said:
They gotta be kidding...
Looks a bit familiar, don't it?
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Kidding? I don't think anyone in their financial position would kidd.
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That was a rhetorical statement, not to be taken literally. But yes, I wrote that in haste before I realized that it was a converted Europa. In anticipation of this news, I was expecting an original Chrysler design in line with the concepts shown last January. You have to admit that with the addition of that Dodge label and racing stripes, the Europa looks like a Viper'ed up Tesla. My original comment was based on the assumption that this was a copycat body rather than a purchased one.

brilliant_yellow.1.jpg
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Anyhow, more EV offerings really is good news for the consumer. And it's about time one of the majors just did this. That is, their own conversion along the lines of the Ford Ranger or RAV4 EVs. Ultimately they may not sell as well as the unique body styles, but that can wait for version 2 (like the Prius).

So the WSJ says the batteries will come from A123. I wonder where they're sourcing the motors. ABG suggests that the Jeep has hub motors.
 
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#23
doug said:
That was a rhetorical statement, not to be taken literally. But yes, I wrote that in haste before I realized that it was a converted Europa. In anticipation of this news, I was expecting an original Chrysler design in line with the concepts shown last January. You have to admit that with the addition of that Dodge label and racing stripes, the Europa looks like a Viper'ed up Tesla. My original comment was based on the assumption that this was a copycat body rather than a purchased one.
Anyhow, more EV offerings really is good news for the consumer. And it's about time one of the majors just did this. That is, their own conversion along the lines of the Ford Ranger or RAV4 EVs. Ultimately they may not sell as well as the unique body styles, but that can wait for version 2 (like the Prius).

So the WSJ says the batteries will come from A123. I wonder where they're sourcing the motors. ABG suggests that the Jeep has hub motors.
Click to expand...

Mine was rhetorical as well; darn computers. You're right on all counts. I watched the CNBC clip and the Jeep has in-wheel hub motors. I thought either Nissan or perhaps one of the other larger manufactures had a Jeep-looking EV as well. Regardless, it is starting to look like we'll finally have choice. 'Bout time.
 
#24
DDB said:
I am frankly thrilled--this may be my BEV that doesn't cost as much as a Tesla. Bet Tesla exec board is not happy about this one.
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I find it pretty exciting myself. The only new car dealership in my small town (actually within easy walking distance of my house) is a Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep outfit. So if this happens. . . No more thought about having to ship the car 500+ miles for maintenance or repairs.

Now the big question. . . . .

The Dodge EV is a converted Lotus Europa. So would Lotus be assembling the cars for Chrysler, or would Chrysler set up their own assembly plant? The answer to this question would have a very large bearing on the cost and pricing of the cars.

If Lotus assembles the cars, then they have to slot the production in alongside the cars they are making for Tesla, Vauxhall, and of course themselves. The production capacity would be limited. Lotus would take their own cut out of the profits. Exchange rates would be problematic. And with limited production capacity, Chrysler would have little incentive to drive the retail price downward.

If Chrysler set up their own assembly plant in the USA, however. . . Then they could have a lot of opportunity to go higher in volume and drive the costs and prices down.

Regarding the Jeep EV. . . I think the idea of hub motors in an off-road vehicle is very promising. The CNBC video implied it uses hub motors. However. . . CNW Group reported that, "The 200 kW (268 horsepower) electric motor generates 400 Nm (295 lb.-ft.) of torque.", and then they came up with this quote from a Chrysler exec: ""We are also exploring four-wheel-drive, in-wheel electric motors to demonstrate the full reach of ENVI's advanced electric-drive technologies."

So. . . I think the Jeep EV they are showing now has a single electric motor. Hub motors are something they are "exploring" for possible future designs.
 
#25
#26
DDB said:
Mine was rhetorical as well; darn computers.
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:tongue:

DDB said:
I watched the CNBC clip and the Jeep has in-wheel hub motors.
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Doesn't look like it has hub motors in this image. Plus it still has that huge differential. But yeah I think hub motors would be great for an off-road vehicle where handling isn't as much of an issue. Just as long as they can hold up to the abuse.

JeepEV1.jpg
 
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#29
Chrysler plugs in big time with three EVs | Up to Speed | Los Angeles Times
...the Dodge EV, which, like the Tesla Roadster, is based on a Lotus platform. It has a range of 150 to 200 miles and a top speed of more than 120 mph, thanks to a 26 kilowatt/hour battery, and was driven immediately after the presentation. A Dodge engineer, off the record, said he thought it could be a "Tesla killer."
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We'll probably have to start a separate thread just about the Dodge EV since it's clearly aimed directly at the Roadster. But for now, I have to say that the more I look into this, the less impressed I am. If you look at the ABG gallery, you see evidence that these vehicles are rather kludgy. I mean they look fine for a small shop conversion, but kinda sad coming from a major. For example, some of the Jeep interior bits are blanked off with plastic and seem a bit misaligned, the charging port is at an odd angle since it's just replacing the fuel filler. On the DodgeEV, the motor driver, and I'd guess the motor and power electronics as well, are from UQM Technologies. Given that the rest of the car is likely from Lotus, I'm left wondering if any part, other than the badge on the front, is from Chrysler. I actually find it annoying when in that PR video, the driver refers to that Europa as a Dodge.
 
#30
doug said:
We'll probably have to start a separate thread just about the Dodge EV since it's clearly aimed directly at the Roadster.
Click to expand...

Did they really say Tesla killer? I'd like the know the logic behind that. . . Because it's nearly identical to a Tesla, aside from less acceleration and a lot less range.

The acceleration wouldn't be a big deal to me. Even the Dodge has a faster 0-60 MPH time than my old Esprit did, and the Esprit is a very fast car. The range, however. . . I once calculated my minimum acceptable range and came up with 200 miles. The Dodge EV with 150 miles range would be tough to accept, unless the price is a lot lower -- and even if it is, that hardly equates it with a "Tesla killer".


I'd guess the motor and power electronics as well, are from UQM Technologies.
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I'd guess that all three vehicles use the same motor, for now. My interpretation is that hub motors are not used in this Jeep, but are something that Chrysler would like to use in some vague future time.
 
#31
The Tesla-Chrysler Connection

CNN Money has an article. . .

2nd UPDATE: Chrysler Electric Cars Due In N America In 2010

Note this bit:

Chrysler's push to develop electric vehicles began before Cerberus took an 80.1% stake in the company in August 2007, people familiar with the matter told the Wall Street Journal. For months, Chrysler held partnership talks with Tesla Motors Inc., a Silicon Valley start-up that is aiming to develop a line of electric cars, these people said, but the discussions broke off late last year.
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Not the first time we've heard such rumors. . .

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/electric-cars/531-chrysler-turns-green-envi.html#post3159
 
#32
General talk about this announcement and the 3 (4) vehicles can continue here. But we'll try to put stuff specifically about the Dodge EV (Europa) in this thread:
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/electric-conversions/1676-dodge-ev-lotus-europa-conversion.html



.
.
Here are a couple more articles:

Chrysler Provides Details on New 'Electric Cars' - News and Analysis by PC Magazine

Chrysler unveils electric cars, stumps for loans | Reuters
AUBURN HILLS, Michigan (Reuters) - Chrysler LLC on Tuesday showed off a trio of electric vehicles in development -- including battery-powered versions of its Chrysler minivan and Jeep Wrangler -- and vowed to bring one of them to showrooms by 2010.
By showing off prototypes still in the planning stage, Chrysler was hoping to shake a costly association with gas-guzzling trucks and dispel doubts about the strength of its vehicle development program under the ownership of Cerberus Capital Management CBS.UL.
But Chrysler Chief Executive Bob Nardelli also warned that without approval for a $25-billion loan package before Congress, the automaker could be forced to cut jobs and costs more deeply to free up funds for its electric car campaign.
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#34
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#35
I have no idea what this is... looks like an NEV.

chrysler_electric_1.jpg
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It is THE NEV, it's a GEM. The newest model - the Peapod. They've been building GEM cars here in Fargo, ND since 1998. Global Electric Motorcars was the original name of the company, Chrysler is changing it to GreenEcoMobility.

25mph top speed, 4 passengers, and it appears to be - happy - or ready to eat small children, I'm not sure.
 
#36
So this announcement and these cars mean two things. Slow the sales of the Tesla and it's ilk because now potential buyers have something more mainstream coming (remember hydrogen hype?) and two, have some quick-slap almost mule-like prototypes to get a bunch of money from taxpayers (and force out the little-guy manufactures).
 
#37
vfx said:
So this announcement and these cars mean two things. Slow the sales of the Tesla and it's ilk because now potential buyers have something more mainstream coming (remember hydrogen hype?) and two, have some quick-slap almost mule-like prototypes to get a bunch of money from taxpayers (and force out the little-guy manufactures).
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I don't think that it is really the case that Chrysler hopes to slow the sales of Tesla. I think Chrysler sees the press GM is receiving from the Volt, and does not want to be perceived as being caught flat-footed as public sentiment swings over to fuel economy and plug-ins. It outsourced a few conversions that were relatively cheap and easy for it, so that it could issue some press releases around the time of the Volt unveiling to try and remain relevant in the publics mind.

The Dodge EV is similar enough to the Tesla that it can ride Tesla's hype a bit going forward - but they do not plan on selling many/any of them. The reason for making it is to get press, and possibly bring people into the show room to buy the minivan. Same as they did with the Viper.
 
#38
graham said:
I don't think that it is really the case that Chrysler hopes to slow the sales of Tesla. I think Chrysler sees the press GM is receiving from the Volt, and does not want to be perceived as being caught flat-footed as public sentiment swings over to fuel economy and plug-ins. It outsourced a few conversions that were relatively cheap and easy for it, so that it could issue some press releases around the time of the Volt unveiling to try and remain relevant in the publics mind.

The Dodge EV is similar enough to the Tesla that it can ride Tesla's hype a bit going forward - but they do not plan on selling many/any of them. The reason for making it is to get press, and possibly bring people into the show room to buy the minivan. Same as they did with the Viper.
Click to expand...

So are you speculating the Volt-like minivan will be produced?

I suspect Chrysler will produce all 3 if they can do them cheaply enough to make them mainstream. If they sell off the Viper brand, they'll need something high-end anyhow. But I do agree it gets people to look in their direction and maybe visit a showroom.
 
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