New pothole relief bill would penalize EVs vs ICE on a per mile basis...

[HumanGenome]

Even using your math evs are paying 47% more per miles. I have no problem with fair but I do have a problem with unfair.

The proposal would be new tax on top of the existing pump tax that already contributes money from ICE pockets to fixing potholes.

 

[sorka]

Maybe so. I'd be happier with a more rational tax system, even if I pay more. How about a gas and diesel tax to nudge drivers towards more efficient vehicles, plus a weight-based registration tax to help pay for road damage? I think the latter would have to be at the federal level with block grants to the states, at least for commercial freight. Otherwise it'd look like a tax on interstate commerce.

Ideally the weight-based tax would also factor in mileage. I used to report that data to State Farm for insurance, and it wasn't too bad. But that might be impractical for our government for a while yet.

Which is exactly that this bill isn't. It dis-incentivizes people from buying EVs by adding a tax that taxes EV drivers more per mile than ICE drivers.

 

[sorka]

The proposal would be new tax on top of the existing pump tax that already contributes money from ICE pockets to fixing potholes.

That's right. And the new tax is not being added even between ICE and EVs. They're adding 3 times as much tax for EVs per mile than they are for ICE cars per mile.

 

[mblakele]

That's right. And the new tax is not being added even between ICE and EVs. They're adding 3 times as much tax for EVs per mile than they are for ICE cars per mile.

Sort of. I figure about 1-cent/mi for EV driving, at 10k/mi/yr. And the new gas tax is about 0.6-cent/mi assuming an average of 20-mpg. But if I were deciding EV vs ICE I'd care more about the total gas tax, which is more like 2-cents/mi. If the idea is that all of the gas tax goes to roads and transit, then EV owners still get a break.

I still think the rationale for these taxes is all wet, but starting from that rationale this adjustment doesn't seem grossly unfair.

 

[NikeWings]

The articles aren't misleading. The existing gas tax was existing when we all factored in total cost of ownership of ICE vs EV and that included existing cost of fuel. What you're saying is that EVs were already not paying their fair share since ICE users were already paying 28 cents / gallon and EVs were paying 0 cents because they don't buy gas.

Honestly Sorka, I never factored a cost of ownership. I saw the car on a freeway, loved it, got home, logged in and boom.
Perhaps EVs are not paying for the roads they use if measured solely by the gas tax. But that's not the same as 'fair share' given that transportation funding comes from many sources, and when I keep less than 50% of my earnings, its hard to convince me that I'm not paying my fair share of anything. Nonetheless, I'm more than willing to fork over the $125, and $100 come 2020.

Anyway, my point was that after reading many articles on this topic, they have been reluctant to highlight it clearly as a tax increase. The gas tax is proposed to increase from .28 to .40 per gallon and that's a 40% regressive hike. A hike of that magnitude, particularly when reviewing its appropriations, should concern all drivers. If we de-funded the inane train to nowhere, this increase could be halved.

HOW THE MONEY WOULD BE RAISED
$24.4 billion by increasing gasoline excise tax 12 cents
$200 million from an annual $100 “zero emission vehicle fee” beginning in 2020
$7.3 billion by increasing diesel excise tax by 20 cents
$3.5 billion by increasing diesel sales tax to 5.75 percent
$16.3 billion from an annual “transportation improvement fee” based on a vehicle’s value
$706 million in General Fund loan repayments.

HOW THE MONEY WOULD BE SPENT LOCALLY
$15 billion in “Fix-It-First” local road repairs such as fixing potholes
$7.5 billion to improve local public transportation
$2 billion to support local “self-help” communities that are making their own investments in transportation improvements
$1 billion to improve infrastructure that promotes walking and bicycling
$825 million for the State Transportation Improvement Program local contribution
$250 million in local transportation planning grants

HOW THE MONEY WOULD BE SPENT STATEWIDE
$15 billion in “Fix-it-First” highway repairs, including smoother pavement
$4 billion in bridge and culvert repairs
$3 billion to improve trade corridors
$2.5 billion to reduce congestion on major commute corridors
$1.4 billion in other transportation investments, including $275 million for highway and intercity-transit improvements.

Source: Governor’s Office

 

[Xenoilphobe]

the tax should be based on vehicle weight and mileage. A 10 ton truck should pay 5 times what a 2 ton Tesla. Weight = damage...

 

[fasteddie7]

all ev taxes for roads should go toward converting the road system to solar panel roadways. I'd buy that for a dollar!

 

[Merrill]

No matter what happens I do not see the roads getting better, they have lots of money it is just not get spent on road maintenance.

 

[McRat]

I find it actually very fair, everybody has gotta pay for their fair share of road repairs.

Gas guzzlers are paying that at the pump, we will pay a flat rate.

I paid over $11,000 in purchase and registration taxes since 2013 on "green" plug-ins, and we will soon add another $9,000 this year. Registration taxes are the gift that keeps on giving.

Sure $100 bucks is chicken feed. But it is also proof that our government is incompetent. Let's see, cut me check for $2,500 to buy an EV and keep it 3 years. Then charge me $300 to drive it those three years because it's an EV whether it was 300 miles or 300,000 miles.

Perhaps then we can get a $30 mail in rebate on the $100 fee if we prove we bought some AA batteries? Then pay a $5 battery tax on the rebate?

 

[Haxster]

I used to report that data to State Farm for insurance, and it wasn't too bad. But that might be impractical for our government for a while yet.

I still report my mileage to AAA Insurance to get a discount on cars that I don't drive much.

Currently Tesla can probably tell every nuance about the car and how I drive it. Checking mileage is trivial for them.

If the current federal administration wants to let ISPs sell, trade, use, or give away my browsing activity, it would be a small stretch to imagine that those miscreants in Washington will soon allow insurance companies, government agencies, advertisers, and who knows who else to monitor and have access to all the data collected on some current and all future vehicles.

 

[mspohr]

I still report my mileage to AAA Insurance to get a discount on cars that I don't drive much.

Currently Tesla can probably tell every nuance about the car and how I drive it. Checking mileage is trivial for them.

If the current federal administration wants to let ISPs sell, trade, use, or give away my browsing activity, it would be a small stretch to imagine that those miscreants in Washington will soon allow insurance companies, government agencies, advertisers, and who knows who else to monitor and have access to all the data collected on some current and all future vehicles.

Insurance companies currently get mileage figures from auto service shops. Every time you take your car for service, the mileage and serial number is recorded. Insurance companies buy this data to keep track of you.

 

[mspohr]

I'm all for paying my fair share. However, I think EVs should be given incentives... lower taxes to encourage adoption. ICE cars have a lot of subsidies in that they don't pay for all of the air pollution they create. When ICE cars start paying their fair share for pollution then I'll consider paying more taxes on my EV.
(About $40/ton for CO2 alone. Much more for NOx health impacts.)

 

[gregd]

When ICE cars start paying their fair share for pollution then I'll consider paying more taxes on my EV.

This. Perfectly stated!

Also, to the weight-based road tax, note that the relationship between weight and wear is not linear, with heavier vehicles (read Trucks) contributing a much higher level of wear, and one doesn't weigh them every trip (so what is fair?). Best to do it by vehicle class.

But I still think that a fuel-based collection is a good idea, as it encourages conservation and roughly tracks contributors to wear and pollution. For the EVs, make the tax KWH based, and give the EV makers some time to implement a reportable metric (as we do today with the odometer) if they don't already have one. That also encourages efficiency.