New Range Question

[PhilRogers]

It's me again. Model 3 SR+. I had been charging to 80%. A Tesla technician told me I should go ahead and start charging to 90%, and just not charge it every night at home----let it go a few days.

So I did. Using 77% of my battery, down to 13%, I went only 135 miles, over about 3 days. That is a computed range of only 175 miles. So here is my question. If my car is supposed to have a range of 240 miles---where did the other 60 miles go?

(Before you say, how cold was it, how hot was it, how fast were you driving, were you running the air, all the things that regular drivers do---by the way)---we are talking about a more than 25% range loss. How can that be? Where did it go?

I love my car. I love Tesla. And i have read the manual. So please don't flame me. Just some constructive answers please, from a guy who is still learning about his car.

Thanks

 

[lbowroom]

how cold was it, how hot was it, how fast were you driving, were you running the air. Did you have sentry on, did you have summon standby on? What’s your tire pressure? What regen setting? Do you brake a lot?

all those things matter in any car. Without answering these questions, no one can help you.

 

[Cybermoose]

So i'm just going to point out something that was clearly missed. 240*0.77 = 184.8

You used 77% of your battery which should have given you 184.8 miles, you say it was a computed range of 175 miles. So 10 miles lost which is a 4% loss. The other '25% range loss' is the other part of your battery.

Now a big complaint about Tesla that i've heard from a lot of people is you can't use the full 100% of the battery so they shouldn't advertise that, which I disagree with because when I'm looking at the range of a vehicle, I want to know the range of the vehicle. Some manufacturers list 90% range, which if I wanted that, I would just subtract 10% since it's very easy math. It's also kind of like buying a gas car, when someone tells me the fuel economy of the vehicle i'm getting, I quickly calculate the max range, which I know I won't use that without filling, but it's nice to know I have that range if I really need to push a little further.

As for the questions you don't want brought up and was already asked by Ibowroom, all of those things matter. This isn't just for an EV, if i'm driving my truck fast with the air conditioning on, i'm going to need a gas station sooner than I would with the listed fuel economy of the vehicle. Now how cold it is, that's different for an EV but that's just something everyone is going to have to get used to, we don't currently have battery technology that's going to ignore the cold and not lose some charge.

Now to conclude, you lost 4% over 3 days, that's actually very good and don't be surprised if you see more than that in the future. Also you can extend your range past what is listed by driving style and keeping the air conditioning off if you really needed to. Two guys tested how far you could go with optimal driving and not using any power consuming features, they drove 606 miles in a model 3 on a single charge.

 

[jjrandorin]

It's me again. Model 3 SR+. I had been charging to 80%. A Tesla technician told me I should go ahead and start charging to 90%, and just not charge it every night at home----let it go a few days.

So I did. Using 77% of my battery, down to 13%, I went only 135 miles, over about 3 days. That is a computed range of only 175 miles. So here is my question. If my car is supposed to have a range of 240 miles---where did the other 60 miles go?

(Before you say, how cold was it, how hot was it, how fast were you driving, were you running the air, all the things that regular drivers do---by the way)---we are talking about a more than 25% range loss. How can that be? Where did it go?

I love my car. I love Tesla. And i have read the manual. So please don't flame me. Just some constructive answers please, from a guy who is still learning about his car.

Thanks

I think the answers to this question are in the other thread you created here:

Whipping a dead horse

you have similar questions, and they have similar answers to that thread.

 

[Siciliano]

I get nowhere near the rated 300 miles at full charge...but I have a lead foot so I don't really expect it!

I do plan to actually test it some day. I want to charge it to 100%, and ONLY use chill mode - no A/C, no sentry, no cabin overheat protection, no jamming the accelerator, etc... and literally drive like a grandma all the way down to ~10%, and see where I'm at.

The problem is, per day, I don't drive very far... so it would take over a week to complete this test, and I really don't know if I can handle it mentally. lol

 

[jschmitt3]

It's me again. Model 3 SR+. I had been charging to 80%. A Tesla technician told me I should go ahead and start charging to 90%, and just not charge it every night at home----let it go a few days.

So I did. Using 77% of my battery, down to 13%, I went only 135 miles, over about 3 days. That is a computed range of only 175 miles. So here is my question. If my car is supposed to have a range of 240 miles---where did the other 60 miles go?

(Before you say, how cold was it, how hot was it, how fast were you driving, were you running the air, all the things that regular drivers do---by the way)---we are talking about a more than 25% range loss. How can that be? Where did it go?

I love my car. I love Tesla. And i have read the manual. So please don't flame me. Just some constructive answers please, from a guy who is still learning about his car.

Thanks

a few things to keep in mind / ask:
1) what PSI do you have your tires at ? Tesla typically defaults them to a few PSI lower than what the tires are max rated for; higher PSIs will give you better efficiency but will make the ride a little more "hard"
2) over my first 800 miles, I have definitely noticed a solid 8-10% hit to efficiency while running my AC (versus not running it)
3) The regen setting does have a big impact - but even more so is how often and how hard you like to hit the accelerator;
4) Driving all highways at normal highway speeds will yield 15-20% less efficiency than regular around town driving
5) for longer drives, I'd definitely recommend playing with AutoPilot and letting the car handle acceleration and braking; it will give you a feel for how the car optimally handles acceleration and regen braking;
6) if you have never driven a car with regen braking - it can take some getting used to; make sure that if the green regen grows large, that you increase how much you are feathering off the accelerator to return that energy into the battery efficiently. the larger the green regen bar the longer period of time over which you'll have to be braking to efficiently return that energy to the battery.

If you need further insights, I'd recommend looking at hooking your car up to TeslaFi - and pouring over all the stats that are available to you to get better insights into the drives you are taking and information about elevation, regen braking, temps, etc. you might notice some patterns there.

John

 

[VT_EE]

It's me again. Model 3 SR+. I had been charging to 80%. A Tesla technician told me I should go ahead and start charging to 90%, and just not charge it every night at home----let it go a few days.

So I did. Using 77% of my battery, down to 13%, I went only 135 miles, over about 3 days. That is a computed range of only 175 miles. So here is my question. If my car is supposed to have a range of 240 miles---where did the other 60 miles go?

(Before you say, how cold was it, how hot was it, how fast were you driving, were you running the air, all the things that regular drivers do---by the way)---we are talking about a more than 25% range loss. How can that be? Where did it go?

I love my car. I love Tesla. And i have read the manual. So please don't flame me. Just some constructive answers please, from a guy who is still learning about his car.

Thanks

Continue with that charging scheme for a number of weeks. Also make sure that the vehicle has ample opportunity to sit throughout the night without any charging to allow the BMS to get accurate measurements. Let us know how it goes.

 

[Gasaraki]

It's me again. Model 3 SR+. I had been charging to 80%. A Tesla technician told me I should go ahead and start charging to 90%, and just not charge it every night at home----let it go a few days.

So I did. Using 77% of my battery, down to 13%, I went only 135 miles, over about 3 days. That is a computed range of only 175 miles. So here is my question. If my car is supposed to have a range of 240 miles---where did the other 60 miles go?

(Before you say, how cold was it, how hot was it, how fast were you driving, were you running the air, all the things that regular drivers do---by the way)---we are talking about a more than 25% range loss. How can that be? Where did it go?

I love my car. I love Tesla. And i have read the manual. So please don't flame me. Just some constructive answers please, from a guy who is still learning about his car.

Thanks

Please don't listen to that 'technician'. Plug your car in every day, even when you are not using it. 90% charge is 'fine' but plug in the car.

When you add up miles over a few days, the total mileage won't add up. Every time you park, it takes the car some time to go to sleep, and during this time power is wasting, add in sentry mode, overheat protection, etc the wasted power adds up. Every time you open the door, trunk, etc the car wakes up, using power then takes some time to sleep again.

 

[mswlogo]

a few things to keep in mind / ask:
1) what PSI do you have your tires at ? Tesla typically defaults them to a few PSI lower than what the tires are max rated for; higher PSIs will give you better efficiency but will make the ride a little more "hard"
2) over my first 800 miles, I have definitely noticed a solid 8-10% hit to efficiency while running my AC (versus not running it)
3) The regen setting does have a big impact - but even more so is how often and how hard you like to hit the accelerator;
4) Driving all highways at normal highway speeds will yield 15-20% less efficiency than regular around town driving
5) for longer drives, I'd definitely recommend playing with AutoPilot and letting the car handle acceleration and braking; it will give you a feel for how the car optimally handles acceleration and regen braking;
6) if you have never driven a car with regen braking - it can take some getting used to; make sure that if the green regen grows large, that you increase how much you are feathering off the accelerator to return that energy into the battery efficiently. the larger the green regen bar the longer period of time over which you'll have to be braking to efficiently return that energy to the battery.

If you need further insights, I'd recommend looking at hooking your car up to TeslaFi - and pouring over all the stats that are available to you to get better insights into the drives you are taking and information about elevation, regen braking, temps, etc. you might notice some patterns there.

John

All car manufactures give recommended tire pressures below max. That’s just horrible advice suggesting to put max PSI in your tires. It’s dangerous. You’ll not get proper wear. It will ride like *sugar*. And probably damage the suspension.

Yes, you will get very low watts per mile. If you put max tire pressure in. If it were that simple, don’t you think Tesla would recommend it?

A few pounds up or down from recommended is fine and depends on your preference and conditions you drive in.

But max is a really bad idea.

I beat EPA range on Model 3 and X by about 5% in summers with A/C. Driving 70mph. With recommended pressure. I rarely floor it. I just drive it normally.

 

[VT_EE]

Please don't listen to that 'technician'. Plug your car in every day, even when you are not using it. 90% charge is 'fine' but plug in the car.

When you add up miles over a few days, the total mileage won't add up. Every time you park, it takes the car some time to go to sleep, and during this time power is wasting, add in sentry mode, overheat protection, etc the wasted power adds up. Every time you open the door, trunk, etc the car wakes up, using power then takes some time to sleep again.

]

I strongly advise you read the thread linked below. The first post is very informative with many posters confirming reported range increase success. If you want your "estimated range" to accurately represent the actual state of your battery then follow the advice of the OP. The car needs to fully sleep for hours on end to get accurate HV SoC readings. Do not charge it every night unless you have to. Just remember, the range estimate is not a great indicator of battery health.

How I Recovered Half of my Battery's Lost Capacity

 

[XLR82XS]

]
Do not charge it every night unless you have to.

Not what Tesla recommends.

 

[VT_EE]

Not what Tesla recommends.

It depends on who at Tesla you talk to. Read the thread I linked if you haven't already.

Edit: Just to clarify: There is nothing wrong with charging overnight, but don't expect your BMS to report the most accurate SoC. Actual battery health is not affected at all by skipping charges.

 

[lUtriaNt]

aye bro,

lot of arm chair battery experts on this forum (no disrespect to any of them). at best you'll end up feeling like you got knocked da Eff out by Muhammad Ali -- dazed and confused -- from all of the back and forth.

as you know there are a LOT of threads on this and sadly you will not get any definite proof on what you should do.

find some old threads of cats who have had model 3 for a while and see what they do.

smoke over this thread if you want to go down a gopher hole:

How I Recovered Half of my Battery's Lost Capacity

as for me, i dont get caught up in these threads and simply plug model 3 up every day and charge to 95% everyday. this still allows me regen and i get more bang to put my foot in the tank (i've a performance model w/20s) .

i've only level 1 charging at my flat and that also is a factor as to why i charge up so high: i want to have extra headroom in case i have an unscheduled trip somewhere (LA is spread out and i know people all over the county), and with level 1 (16 amp) charging, it can take a while to build up the bench again to 90+%. I drive into the office weekly per usual. if i did not drive as much, i might reduce the charge to 90 but not lower. my car is a march 2020 build if that matters.

you will get anxiety trying to find out what you should or should not do, and in the process you waste time and don't get to enjoy the car.

as a baseline, just follow the operator's manual and charge to YOUR taste.

 

[jjrandorin]

aye bro,

lot of arm chair battery experts on this forum (no disrespect to any of them). at best you'll end up feeling like you got knocked da Eff out by Muhammad Ali -- dazed and confused -- from all of the back and forth.

as you know there are a LOT of threads on this and sadly you will not get any definite proof on what you should do.

find some old threads of cats who have had model 3 for a while and see what they do.

smoke over this thread if you want to go down a gopher hole:

How I Recovered Half of my Battery's Lost Capacity

as for me, i dont get caught up in these threads and simply plug model 3 up every day and charge to 95% everyday. this still allows me regen and i get more bang to put my foot in the tank (i've a performance model w/20s) .

i've only level 1 charging at my flat and that also is a factor as to why i charge up so high: i want to have extra headroom in case i have an unscheduled trip somewhere (LA is spread out and i know people all over the county), and with level 1 (16 amp) charging, it can take a while to build up the bench again to 90+%. I drive into the office weekly per usual. if i did not drive as much, i might reduce the charge to 90 but not lower. my car is a march 2020 build if that matters.

you will get anxiety trying to find out what you should or should not do, and in the process you waste time and don't get to enjoy the car.

as a baseline, just follow the operator's manual and charge to YOUR taste.

I believe the OP in this thread is familiar with the issue, as he has asked the same general question ("why dont I get the rated range on this car") in both threads he has created and a couple other threads. the only thing I can think of is, he may just not like the answers in the previous threads so is asking again. Here are threads OP has started on the same general issue.


New owner —Worried
Still baffled by range issue
Whipping a dead horse

 

[coleAK]

a few things to keep in mind / ask:
1) what PSI do you have your tires at ? Tesla typically defaults them to a few PSI lower than what the tires are max rated for; higher PSIs will give you better efficiency but will make the ride a little more "hard"
2) over my first 800 miles, I have definitely noticed a solid 8-10% hit to efficiency while running my AC (versus not running it)
3) The regen setting does have a big impact - but even more so is how often and how hard you like to hit the accelerator;
4) Driving all highways at normal highway speeds will yield 15-20% less efficiency than regular around town driving
5) for longer drives, I'd definitely recommend playing with AutoPilot and letting the car handle acceleration and braking; it will give you a feel for how the car optimally handles acceleration and regen braking;
6) if you have never driven a car with regen braking - it can take some getting used to; make sure that if the green regen grows large, that you increase how much you are feathering off the accelerator to return that energy into the battery efficiently. the larger the green regen bar the longer period of time over which you'll have to be braking to efficiently return that energy to the battery.

If you need further insights, I'd recommend looking at hooking your car up to TeslaFi - and pouring over all the stats that are available to you to get better insights into the drives you are taking and information about elevation, regen braking, temps, etc. you might notice some patterns there.

John

You do not understand tire dynamics at all. Psi is based on load tables and specific for a vehicle and load rate of the tire. Change the load rated tire on a car and the recommended PSI will change.

don’t listen to this stupidity, set your PSI to the door sticker.

 

[PhilRogers]

To everyone who gave me a kind reply, thank you very much. Many of your answers were really useful and constructive. And you were nice.

But not everyone. It's astonishing that on these boards, one has to say things like, "Please don't flame me," and "I've read the manual." Once again, many of the posters did not disappoint. Why you feel the need to attack people asking simple questions is beyond me. It reminds me of those sketches on SNL with the corporate IT guy who berated everyone who ever asked a question about their computer. Come on---it's a car, for God's sake. The other day I saw a post on the facebook page from a new owner just asking questions about the lack of Homelink as standard equipment. He was savaged in hundreds of replies from Tesla fanboys.

I love the car. But there are things I don't understand. This is new technology. And some members of the Tesla community are not serving that community well by mocking, berating, or outright attacking people who ask questions.

You win. I won't post anything else. I don't need this.

But it is a great car.

 

[coleAK]

To everyone who gave me a kind reply, thank you very much. Many of your answers were really useful and constructive. And you were nice.

But not everyone. It's astonishing that on these boards, one has to say things like, "Please don't flame me," and "I've read the manual." Once again, many of the posters did not disappoint. Why you feel the need to attack people asking simple questions is beyond me. It reminds me of those sketches on SNL with the corporate IT guy who berated everyone who ever asked a question about their computer. Come on---it's a car, for God's sake. The other day I saw a post on the facebook page from a new owner just asking questions about the lack of Homelink as standard equipment. He was savaged in hundreds of replies from Tesla fanboys.

I love the car. But there are things I don't understand. This is new technology. And some members of the Tesla community are not serving that community well by mocking, berating, or outright attacking people who ask questions.

You win. I won't post anything else. I don't need this.

But it is a great car.

To answer your question. I get rated range or better around town with no stop and go traffic and <55 mph all summer here in Alaska (no AC). When we go on a longer trip in get 10-20% increased consumption (decreased range) on the open road running 65-70mph. Winter In Alaska running the heat and on snow/ice covered roads I see 25-50% increase consumption (decreased range).

 

[jschmitt3]

All car manufactures give recommended tire pressures below max. That’s just horrible advice suggesting to put max PSI in your tires. It’s dangerous. You’ll not get proper wear. It will ride like *sugar*. And probably damage the suspension.

Yes, you will get very low watts per mile. If you put max tire pressure in. If it were that simple, don’t you think Tesla would recommend it?

A few pounds up or down from recommended is fine and depends on your preference and conditions you drive in.

But max is a really bad idea.

I beat EPA range on Model 3 and X by about 5% in summers with A/C. Driving 70mph. With recommended pressure. I rarely floor it. I just drive it normally.

I never said to "max" your PSI - my tires PSI' came from delivery 4PSI below what was on the inside of the car sticker;
For my 19 inch sport wheels - the car said 42; they came at 38; the max PSI for the tire on a Tesla is 51; I have placed mine up to 45;

 

[jschmitt3]

You do not understand tire dynamics at all. Psi is based on load tables and specific for a vehicle and load rate of the tire. Change the load rated tire on a car and the recommended PSI will change.

don’t listen to this stupidity, set your PSI to the door sticker.

can we please tone the attitude down; my point was simple; check the PSI of your tires; know that there is a max, understand what the car is recommends on the door sticker; mine came to me at delivery at 38; the door sticker says 42; they are max rated for 51; i set them to 45;

No need to insult people to contribute to the community ...

 

[coleAK]

can we please tone the attitude down; my point was simple; check the PSI of your tires; know that there is a max, understand what the car is recommends on the door sticker; mine came to me at delivery at 38; the door sticker says 42; they are max rated for 51; i set them to 45;

No need to insult people to contribute to the community ...

I’m not insulting you, it is a clear fact you don’t know what you are talking about and giving people unsafe and false information. If your door sticker says 42 PSI Then the smart thing to do is set them to 42 PSI.

max PSI rating has nothing to do with ride or efficiency. Tires all have a recommended contact patch that is a function of vehicle weight, PSI and tire load rate. The reason the model 3 has a higher than most passenger car recommended psi is not due to efficiency is is because it is HEAVY.

Here is some basic information on load tables.
https://www.toyotires.com/media/3729/application_of_load_inflation_tables_20200723.pdf