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New Tires and Vibration?

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Hey, I put a new set of Michellin MXM4 on a few weeks ago, and the tire place cannot seem to get the vibes out of the ride. They say the roll out is low, it has been back to the shop for balance 2 times, and we've already replaced 2 tires in an effort to figure out what is going on. I'm going back today to have them hand-tighten the lugs instead of the power tools followed by torque wrench, thinking maybe something is being torqued by the power tools. Before I have them replace the other 2 tires, anyone have this experience and what was the solution?

Thanks!
 
Haven’t experienced that, but the Tesla’s lug nuts do have a REALLY high torque requirement (129 ft lbs) compared to what I consider normal (80-90).

Have you asked what they are torquing the wheels to?
 
Hey, I put a new set of Michellin MXM4 on a few weeks ago, and the tire place cannot seem to get the vibes out of the ride. They say the roll out is low, it has been back to the shop for balance 2 times, and we've already replaced 2 tires in an effort to figure out what is going on. I'm going back today to have them hand-tighten the lugs instead of the power tools followed by torque wrench, thinking maybe something is being torqued by the power tools. Before I have them replace the other 2 tires, anyone have this experience and what was the solution?

Thanks!


Identical scenario, identical tires. This all started for me back in August when I had these tires put on my car.
Prior to new tires, car drove smooth as silk.
After new tires I have had persistent minor vibration.
Two new sets of tires have been put on, tires have been balanced 5+ times by two different shops, car has had alignment. All of that has eliminated most of the vibration, but I still cannot get rid of some minor vibration that I feel from 50-55mph after the car has sat for 24+ hours. This vibration occurs when the car has been idle for that period of time and for about 10-15 mins into the drive, when it smooths out at that speed. It’s almost as if the tires are flat spotting, but I don’t see how that’s possible after a 24 hour period.
This situation stressed me out for a good 2-3 months, but I’ve recently just told myself to deal with it - not worth stressing over it. Its minor and I can live with it - if it gets worse over time I’ll investigate further.
 
In my experience, road force balancing has helped with odd balancing problems. Not all shops have the equipment necessary to balance tires in thus manner. Just an idea, not sure if your shop used this method or if it might help in your situation, but thought I would mention it. I only use tire shops with road force balancing capability.
 
In my experience, road force balancing has helped with odd balancing problems. Not all shops have the equipment necessary to balance tires in thus manner. Just an idea, not sure if your shop used this method or if it might help in your situation, but thought I would mention it. I only use tire shops with road force balancing capability.

A road force balance was the last balance I did in my case. I will say it helped the most compared to all other balance events, but it wasn’t able to entirely eliminate the vibration in my case.
 
I've had vibration issues with these tires, ever since I picked up my TM3 from the "dealer" 2.5 hours away. Tesla paid for 2 Road Force Balances (last was on a brand new machine), and while that helped, it didn't help enough and was actually getting worse again. I made the trek back to a Tesla SC and they couldn't feel or hear it, even though I could. Granted it was a not so smooth cement Chicago freeway for the test drives, but I'm tuned in and can always hear it. They did perform an alignment and while my TM3 was close to spec, it did help and honestly the vibrations still seem to be slowly going away. Based upon both my experience and what I've read of others, I'm not a fan of these acoustic foam filled tires as they seem to add another thing to go wrong (foam loosening and peeling away inside the tire) and others have said that there is no audible benefit either. I will be staying away from Michelin's as well now as I don't think they have great quality control with this model of tire either (based upon the negative posts).

Thanks for sharing your experiences as they only confirm what I'm hearing/feeling and that I will look for a much better set of All Seasons from another manufacturer when these wear out (BTW, I'm down to 6/32" after only 6,000 miles as well).

-Stach
 
I had a similar issue with a BMW. The solution was to align it to the extreme, much more precise than the official tolerance.

My TM3 also has vibrations since I mounted new winter wheels and tires. Going back for realignment. Just before the switch I started to notice the vibes. The new set just made it worse.
As the wheels and tires are new I expect the alingment to fix it. The shop has one of those laser guided machines. Should be good a the staff is excellent.
BTW: odometer reeds 9800 kilometers.

These new continental 850 tires seem to have stiffer side walls that the hankooks. That doesn't help.
 
Hey, I put a new set of Michellin MXM4 on a few weeks ago, and the tire place cannot seem to get the vibes out of the ride. They say the roll out is low, it has been back to the shop for balance 2 times, and we've already replaced 2 tires in an effort to figure out what is going on. I'm going back today to have them hand-tighten the lugs instead of the power tools followed by torque wrench, thinking maybe something is being torqued by the power tools. Before I have them replace the other 2 tires, anyone have this experience and what was the solution?

Thanks!
The usual suspects are (no particular order):
Improper wheel torque.
Improper tire mounting (bead(s) not seated properly).
Improper tire mounting (The heavy spot of the wheel matched to the heavy spot of the tire rather than the light spot).
Bad alignment (which alignment angle might be the culprit depends on when you feel the vibration).
Drivetrain imbalance (very unlikely with a Tesla, but remotely possible).
An actual problem with the tires (rare, but it does happen).

Without actually knowing more about the vibration (or riding in the car) it's not possible to say more.
 
I complained to Tesla about a very minor vibration from about 75mph to 79mph after I had my tires rotated. Turned out that one of the TS Sportline wheels on the front of the car was slightly out of round, probably from a pothole. When they had the tire rotating on the balancer, you could see an ever so slight wobble as the tire spun. That was the cause of my vibration.
 
I complained to Tesla about a very minor vibration from about 75mph to 79mph after I had my tires rotated. Turned out that one of the TS Sportline wheels on the front of the car was slightly out of round, probably from a pothole. When they had the tire rotating on the balancer, you could see an ever so slight wobble as the tire spun. That was the cause of my vibration.

I'm in this same club. Got new tires.... have vibration. tried balancing one that I thought was the issue.. no real change. Question is: they said a wheel was out of round. How old is your car and what did they do about it? *(cost? replace for free?) How much? I'm GUESSING at this point thats my issue.
 
The usual suspects are (no particular order):
Improper wheel torque.
Improper tire mounting (bead(s) not seated properly).
Improper tire mounting (The heavy spot of the wheel matched to the heavy spot of the tire rather than the light spot).
Bad alignment (which alignment angle might be the culprit depends on when you feel the vibration).
Drivetrain imbalance (very unlikely with a Tesla, but remotely possible).
An actual problem with the tires (rare, but it does happen).

Without actually knowing more about the vibration (or riding in the car) it's not possible to say more.

Shoot, I wish that you lived in Wisconsin so you could take a drive in my TM3, as you sound very knowledgeable! I feel like you could tell exactly where my vibration issue(s) is!

After my 2 road force balances, I feared that it was a motor bearing / drvietrain issue, but these days I doubt that. I've been waiting for a nasty winter weather forecast before putting on new Aero's with X-Ice 3's mounted, so that should tell me something as well. Right now I can still hear a low frequency chugging sound as I go above 55mph, similar to what you hear when you only roll a single window part way down (with no real vibration in the steering wheel any more). Does that help isolate what the issue could be?
 
Shoot, I wish that you lived in Wisconsin so you could take a drive in my TM3, as you sound very knowledgeable! I feel like you could tell exactly where my vibration issue(s) is!

After my 2 road force balances, I feared that it was a motor bearing / drvietrain issue, but these days I doubt that. I've been waiting for a nasty winter weather forecast before putting on new Aero's with X-Ice 3's mounted, so that should tell me something as well. Right now I can still hear a low frequency chugging sound as I go above 55mph, similar to what you hear when you only roll a single window part way down (with no real vibration in the steering wheel any more). Does that help isolate what the issue could be?
If it increases with speed, there are a few things to check:

1. Flat spots on the tire (usually caused by emergency braking). These usually show up at any speed, but one that isn't very severe may show up only at higher speeds.
2. Caster angle. (Think of getting a shopping cart where the wheels go wonky, that's too much caster). Increases with speed and often doesn't show up until you get to highways speeds.
3. A heavy spot in the tire, possibly a very thick casing splice (Feel around the circumference of the sidewall, you will likely feel an indentation where the splice is. This is normal, but once in a while you will find two together (usually these tires are not sold as first line tires, but blemished tires--occasionally one gets through. I've seen some with as many as five). This will not show up as an out of round condition.
4. Too much wheel runout. The tire must be demounted to find this.
5. Too much balancing weight. There's an amount where more weight doesn't help.
6. Dynamic imbalance of the tires and wheels. The vibration goes in an out at speed, so for example if it starts at 55, stops at 65, starts again at 75 or 80, that could be the problem.

And some non-tire ones:
Do you have a roof rack on your S? I have seen cars that the roof rack causes a vibration, sometimes severe. I'd find that really odd on a Tesla with a glass or pano roof, but some were made with metal roofs and the air flowing past the roof rack could vibrate the roof.
Because you're describing it as if it were pressure buffeting, is there anything loose (like some of those plastic bits) underneath that could cause that.
I don't know what kind of animal could make that sound, but there have been instances of cats climbing up under the motor.

Some things to try:
Switch the tires to different positions to see if the vibration changes.
As you've suggested, put the winter tires and winter wheels on.
Do the pencil test (you'll need another person for this). Method: Get a pad of paper and a pencil or marker (not a ball point). One person drives to where the effect is felt (sounds as if 60 mph would be a good speed and makes for easy calculation). The other person taps the pencil on the paper in time to the vibration for a measured amount of time. (Six seconds is typical because you only have to multiply by ten to get the number per minute. You can also count for a full minute, but there may be hundreds of dots, so counting them is a pain). Do this two or three times to make up for the small variations in the six second timing. You now have the number of vibrations per minute (and at 60 mph it's also per mile). Match this with the rotational speed of various components (such as the tire revolutions per mile--available from the tire manufacture's specs on their website). If it doesn't match the revolutions of the tires, you can eliminate them and look for other items such as steering components, suspension, or something else.

Vibrations and noises in cars are often hard to pin down because they are often felt or heard in different areas then they are actually coming from. In the most difficult cases, sensors or microphones need to be placed in various places to actually determine the location.
 
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Reactions: CaliMS and Stach
I'm in this same club. Got new tires.... have vibration. tried balancing one that I thought was the issue.. no real change. Question is: they said a wheel was out of round. How old is your car and what did they do about it? *(cost? replace for free?) How much? I'm GUESSING at this point thats my issue.

As all 4 tires had 8/32 inch tread on them and appeared to be wearing evenly, Tesla moved the wheel to the rear. That fixed the vibration fir the immediate time. They said the car is more sensitive to an out of round wheel on the front of the car.

They suggested replacing the wheel or raking it to a place that can repair the wheel. I have a set of 4 TSportline wheels that I bought about 6 years ago for the car, so I’m not certain I can just buy one wheel. Thus, I plan on taking the wheel to a place that can repair the out of roundness. I was told the cost is about $150-200 for the repair and would take a few days. I just haven’t taken it in yet.
 
Thus, I plan on taking the wheel to a place that can repair the out of roundness. I was told the cost is about $150-200 for the repair and would take a few days. I just haven’t taken it in yet.

swegman, we will be interested to hear if that fixes your issue. As for my situation, I still haven't had the need to swap in my X-Ice 3's, as the only winter driving that we've had here in Madison, was back in late October/early November. :) I'll post what I discover once a snowstorm is finally forecast for us again.