Newb: Winter Cold Weather Charging?

[cane_stanco]

Considering a LR-AWD Model (would be our first EV). I do have a specific use case for next winter which concerns me. We will be traveling about 250 miles (each way) to a cabin every weekend for 3 months. We have a 240v circuit at home and there are several superchargers along the way, however we will be relying on 110v slow charging at the cabin with the car parked outside (it will be covered in a carport at least). We will be in northern VT, so it is generally below freezing and sometimes sub zero.

We can commit to stopping at one of the closest superchargers (25 or 75 miles away from our destination) on our way in and out. There are a few public L2 chargers in the immediate area, but I’m not sure how crowded those get. There is no opportunity to install a faster circuit at the cabin at this time.

How challenging will this be relying primarily on the slow charger? Any tips and tricks? Can we make the 240 mile trip on one stop if starting with a full charge? What else am I not considering?

TIA!

 

[LikesToys]

I live near Toronto and have similar conditions. You can not make that trip in one charge - even in the summer. Leave with close to 100% and precondition the car before departure (this heats the cabin and battery) while plugged in then drive.. Drive to a convienient supercharger with that as the destination on the cars map so the car will preheat the battery and you should only have about a 20-30 min charge or so in the cold. Then drive to the cabin and plug in - you will only get 1.5kw per hour on a 75kw hour battery. Given the temp that may only keep the battery warm - you will not get much charge in the cold however I have not tested that. Drive back, repeat the process. You can best test the optimal charge locations using ABRP App which should give you a good estimate however leave large buffers till you test it out in the cold as everything will be 20% worse than in the summer. If you could put the car in a garage at night it would make a lot of difference

 

[tga]

When using 120V charging in sub-freezing temps, you must plug in and start charging immediately upon arrival while the battery is still warm enough to accept a charge. If you wait and let the battery cool to below freezing, you're SOL, since 12A@120V is nowhere near enough power to reheat the battery to >32F. The battery heater can turn on in these conditions, but it will pull power from the battery to heat it, since there isn't enough "shore power" to meet the demand.

I'd also be concerned about the quality of your 120V charging circuit. "Cabin" to me implies "old, dodgy electrical", small panel, limited service and a 120V outlet on a shared circuit with lots of other stuff. Two often overlooked problem with 120V charging are (a) there are often lots of other things on the circuit that limit how much power you can draw without tripping the breaker and (b) the potential for lots of upstream connections that could be problematic if they are old, have loosened, etc.

I routinely make a 200 mile trip on 91. Consumption goes up in VT (lots of hills), but I can do it in one charge. 250 won't work without a stop, unless a bunch of it is back roads at low speeds. PM me if you want to discuss more details of locations, nearby L2/L3 options, etc and don't want to post location details in an open forum. Actually, as a new user, you probably can't send a PM. I'll send one you can reply to if you want.

Also, there are also lots of CCS and Chademo chargers in VT, so it might be helpful to get an adapter depending on what's nearby.

 

[LostVector]

Curious how much power is potentially available at the panel in these situations! Sounds tricky.

 

[Eric33432]

I believe you when you say you can't install a "faster circuit" but know that even a 15 or 20 amp 240 volt circuit is better than 120 volt charging, and unless the cabin has something like my grandmother's 1920's house, which only had a 30 amp 120 volt service (before it was upgraded to a 240 volt 100 amp service in the 1980's), you should be able to get that much out of almost any existing 240 volt service.

 

[E90alex]

120V is not likely going to be sufficient to add any charge in the winter as most or all of the energy would be used to warm the battery. Especially if parked outside.

 

[tga]

120V is not likely going to be sufficient to add any charge in the winter as most or all of the energy would be used to warm the battery. Especially if parked outside.

I disagree (sort of). I wouldn’t advise it and I’d avoid it if at all possible, but if you plug in as soon as you get home, you can get some decent charge. I have a friend in NH that only has 120V charging for her 3 and hasn’t told me of any serious problems. But she is retired and doesn’t drive much, so she has low expectations for charging.

 

[E90alex]

I disagree (sort of). I wouldn’t advise it and I’d avoid it if at all possible, but if you plug in as soon as you get home, you can get some decent charge. I have a friend in NH that only has 120V charging for her 3 and hasn’t told me of any serious problems. But she is retired and doesn’t drive much, so she has low expectations for charging.

Better to set low expectations and be pleasantly surprised than to give false hope and be unpleasantly surprised.

 

[QtownTaxiGreg]

I would not even bother with the wall charging outside in subzero. Make sure the car is fully off when you park up.

Supercharge before you get in with enough juice to arrive with 60%. That should be enough to run a couple of errands with preset departures, and get you back to a supercharger on the return home run without anxiety.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Considering a LR-AWD Model (would be our first EV). I do have a specific use case for next winter which concerns me. We will be traveling about 250 miles (each way) to a cabin every weekend for 3 months. We have a 240v circuit at home and there are several superchargers along the way, however we will be relying on 110v slow charging at the cabin with the car parked outside (it will be covered in a carport at least). We will be in northern VT, so it is generally below freezing and sometimes sub zero.

We can commit to stopping at one of the closest superchargers (25 or 75 miles away from our destination) on our way in and out. There are a few public L2 chargers in the immediate area, but I’m not sure how crowded those get. There is no opportunity to install a faster circuit at the cabin at this time.

How challenging will this be relying primarily on the slow charger? Any tips and tricks? Can we make the 240 mile trip on one stop if starting with a full charge? What else am I not considering?

TIA!

Don't plan on getting any significant charge in the winter at 120V - do plug in, it'll ensure you don't *lose* charge - but use the Superchargers as appropriate to make sure the battery has enough power to get back to a supercharger. I would seriously look into installing a 240V circuit or using an existing 240V circuit that might already be there (like for a dryer or range).

 

[QtownTaxiGreg]

Don't plan on getting any significant charge in the winter at 120V - do plug in, it'll ensure you don't *lose* charge

Do you have any basis for this?

I would be concerned the car could cannibalize battery power to keep warm enough for changing to occur, faster than you could put it back in.

Plugging in directly on arrival wouldn't be a bad idea but keep an eye on what it is achieving.

It really would depend on what use the car gets during the stay. Gut feeling is if not used it would be a no brainer to simply let it freeze once with 60% onboard and thaw it out to leave.

If running around in it all weekend might be better leaving it on charger all the time it is parked, so long as can maintain some headway.