Newbie Question

[Chetanh]

Hello World,
We are looking to replace one of our vehicles (2007 camry with 350k+ on it) and are considering the model 3. I have a few questions, hopefully you guys can help answer them:
Here are some assumptions that wont likely change in the near future:
1) I can only afford the model 3 with the 386Km range (i think it is called SR+) in the base color with base wheel and base interior and no other options. That one will be financed for 7 years, which makes me a little uncomfortable (never financed a car for more than 4 years)
2) My commute is 150km roundtrip with 140km highway (speeds of around 120kmph and rest bumper to bumper city traffic)
3) I want the car to last atleast the duration of the finance period.
4) i dont have charging facilities at work.

Given the facts, can someone help me answer the following:
1) Given my commute distance will i be able to make the roundtrip even when its -40 outside without charging at work?
2) Given the battery degradation, can i expect that i will be able to do this commute for all the 7 years.
3) Including all the other driving, i expect to use the vehicle for 35K a year. Tesla warranty will end, does Tesla sell extended battery?
4) I have heard of the following issues with the vehicle:
Door handle freezing
Door windows freezing at the sil and door not opening
Water/ice buildup and bumper falling off
Any ideas if these have been resolved?
5) How effective is the touchscreen only usage in peak winter when we are wearing gloves?
6) What kind of charger to installl at home that works for Tesla as well as other brand EV's?
Any other comments/suggestions?

Thank you very much for taking the time to read my post.

 

[JNB11]

1. Yes. With extreme cold weather, expect up to a 40% decrease in range. Completing the battery charge shortly before driving will ensure the battery is at a more optimum temperature. Dress warm. Use the defrost only enough to keep the windshield clear. Use the seat heaters if equipped. Check to see if there are superchargers close to your work place. Charging for 15 minutes may be enough to reduce range anxiety.
2. The battery should experience very little degradation when used in cold climates. Hot weather is what degrades batteries, not cold. Cold weather will reduce range.
3. For what it is worth, battery geeks think the Tesla batteries will last a long time. 90% capacity after 160,000 miles. Canadian owners should experience longer battery life than Las Vegas owners like myself. Tesla offers an extended warranty for the MS and MX. Maybe they will offer one in the near future for the M3? Vehicle Warranty Tesla Batteries Have 90% Capacity After 160,000 Miles, May Last For 500,000 miles | CleanTechnica
4. Interesting questions that have been answered elsewhere on the forum. I know a lubricant is available for ensuring the windows do not stick.
5. Gloves can make it difficult to use the smaller icons. Not sure about cold weather.
6. I use an EVSE with a standard J1772 connector to charge my Chevy Volt. My M3 came with an adapter to use with the EVSE and the M3. Tesla to J1772 adapters are available but they are pricey.

My recommendation? Buy the car and enjoy.

 

[KenC]

The range should be okay, but I'm confused about your math. If you drive 150km for work, that's 250 workdays a year, so 37,500km a year, but you say later your total mileage will be 35k a year, including other driving. That's alot of driving. Do you really want to be paying off your car loan in Year 7, when the car will have over 200km? Be sure to get gap insurance!

 

[Chetanh]

Thanks for you reply. I assumed 6 weeks vacation plus 11 stat holidays.
Do they sell gap inaurance in Canada? My current auto insurance company does not sell it.

 

[SlimJim]

I don't drive in really cold weather. If the range really decreases by 40% in winter, at 120km per hour I don't know if it will make 140 km after a few years of battery degradation.

 

[Chetanh]

I don't drive in really cold weather. If the range really decreases by 40% in winter, at 120km per hour I don't know if it will make 140 km after a few years of battery degradation.

Thats my main worry the kona electric has a slightly higher range but i dont know if the battery tech is as good. I cannot inceease my budget, i may have to get a Plugin hyvrid.

 

[afadeev]

I can only afford the model 3 with the 386Km range (i think it is called SR+) in the base color with base wheel and base interior and no other options. That one will be financed for 7 years, which makes me a little uncomfortable (never financed a car for more than 4 years)

All other considerations aside, if you need a 7 year loan to get into the car, maybe you shouldn't.
As much as I wish you to enjoy yourself in a Model 3, don't over-stretch your budget to get into one.
It's just not worth it.

a

 

[MXWing]

I think in your shoes I would get a MR or LR on the secondary market.

You are asking way too much out of the SR+in my opinion as 7 years is a very very long time to finance something and count on range being the same.

Too much risk in my opinion.

Keep saving to increase your down payment.

Gotta pick between a Model 3 any all other discretionary expenses. And yes I would scrape pennies together if it made the difference between driving a Tesla versus another car.

 

[Chetanh]

Thanks for your replies. If i can get the financing down to 6, can i expect the battery to povide me a roundtrip 150k commute in the 6th year?

 

[RedModel3]

I agree with MXWing. Look for a used LR 3. With EV's range is everything, so get the most range you can afford. You are wise to think ahead, but degradation is not as big a deal as cold weather, which really can affect range. In the year since I bought my car, prices have come down and tech and build quality has improved. I have been following Tesla since the original Roadster and waited years for my car. It sounds to me like you'd be better off waiting as long as you can and saving up for the LR battery. If you can't do that, then be sure to factor in the financial aspects of auto maintenance. There is much less maintenance with an electric car, which adds up fast.

Good luck with your decision, and let us know what you decide to to.

 

[Jffurlan]

One thing to also consider is charging rate when you’re at home:

SR+ can only charge at 32A, or 8kW (roughly 14% battery per hour or 50km per hour). So with your commute you’re looking at 3 hour charge per day, minimum.

LR can charge at 48A with the Tesla HPWC (Silver Wall Connector). This will give you 11.5kW, closer to 20% (70km per hour) and cut your charging time to 2 hours.

With your long commute I’m not saying a quicker charge rate is necessary, but something I would want to know before purchase.

On the flip side I can share that the efficiency of the SR+ is really good. My current lifetime efficiency in my Model 3 is 128 Wh/Km (over 4,000km) and has been only getting better. My last 100 or so km have been just over 100 Wh/km and a mix of city and highway, so in my experience the rated range is lower than what I’ve actually been getting.

One last suggestion is reach out to your closest showroom and ask if they have any inventory cars. I did this before purchase and was offered a LR RWD, black on black with Autopilot (before it was standard) for 60K. Helped us make our decision.

 

[Chetanh]

One thing to also consider is charging rate when you’re at home:

SR+ can only charge at 32A, or 8kW (roughly 14% battery per hour or 50km per hour). So with your commute you’re looking at 3 hour charge per day, minimum.

LR can charge at 48A with the Tesla HPWC (Silver Wall Connector). This will give you 11.5kW, closer to 20% (70km per hour) and cut your charging time to 2 hours.

With your long commute I’m not saying a quicker charge rate is necessary, but something I would want to know before purchase.

On the flip side I can share that the efficiency of the SR+ is really good. My current lifetime efficiency in my Model 3 is 128 Wh/Km (over 4,000km) and has been only getting better. My last 100 or so km have been just over 100 Wh/km and a mix of city and highway, so in my experience the rated range is lower than what I’ve actually been getting.

One last suggestion is reach out to your closest showroom and ask if they have any inventory cars. I did this before purchase and was offered a LR RWD, black on black with Autopilot (before it was standard) for 60K. Helped us make our decision.

In Canada on tesla.ca i only see two models 386km(241miles) and 499km(311miles) approx.
I am referring to the 386km model. I have a test drive scheduled Thu, lets see if they offer anything.
Kona warranty covers all EV xomponents for 160k. However they do not state the degradation warranty (i have emailed them and asked)

We have a 100amp panel. Panel plus charger is an additional 2800$ expense.

 

[MXWing]

In Canada on tesla.ca i only see two models 386km(241miles) and 499km(311miles) approx.
I am referring to the 386km model. I have a test drive scheduled Thu, lets see if they offer anything.
Kona warranty covers all EV xomponents for 160k. However they do not state the degradation warranty (i have emailed them and asked)

We have a 100amp panel. Panel plus charger is an additional 2800$ expense.

Tesla is probably a decade over anyone else when it comes to battery management systems.

Getting a non Tesla EV unless it’s just a really cheap town car is really throwing good money after bad.

Any money spent on Plan B takes away from your dreams of Plan A.

You can throttle how much draw the Tesla has and what time to charge as well.

 

[Chetanh]

Tesla is probably a decade over anyone else when it comes to battery management systems.

Getting a non Tesla EV unless it’s just a really cheap town car is really throwing good money after bad.

Any money spent on Plan B takes away from your dreams of Plan A.

You can throttle how much draw the Tesla has and what time to charge as well.

So i have a response from Hyundai, they also provide 70% battery guarantee over 8 years/160Km but also additionally warranty the motor and other EV components

 

[Chetanh]

The Lithium-Ion Polymer Battery ("EV Battery") Capacity warranty
coverage period is 8 years or 160,000 kilometers from the Date of First
Service, whichever comes first, for capacity loss below 70% of the
original battery capacity. This warranty covers repairs needed to return
battery capacity to 70% of original battery capacity. If possible, the EV
battery components will be repaired or replaced, and the original EV
Battery will be returned to the vehicle. If necessary, the EV Battery will
be replaced with either a new or remanufactured Lithium-Ion Polymer
Battery. Any repair or replacement made under this Lithium-Ion Polymer
Battery Capacity Coverage may not return your Lithium-Ion Battery
to an "as new" condition with the original 1OO% battery capacity.
However, it will provide the vehicle with an EV Battery capacity of at
least 7O% of the original battery capacity

 

[Chetanh]

* EV SYSTEM (as listed)
Motor, Inverter unit, VCM, Reduction gear, DC/DC converter, Onboard
charger, Onboard charger connector, Trickle charge cable, In Cable
Control Box, High Voltage Battery

 

[KenC]

Hello World,
We are looking to replace one of our vehicles (2007 camry with 350k+ on it) and are considering the model 3. I have a few questions, hopefully you guys can help answer them:
Here are some assumptions that wont likely change in the near future:
1) I can only afford the model 3 with the 386Km range (i think it is called SR+) in the base color with base wheel and base interior and no other options. That one will be financed for 7 years, which makes me a little uncomfortable (never financed a car for more than 4 years)
2) My commute is 150km roundtrip with 140km highway (speeds of around 120kmph and rest bumper to bumper city traffic)
3) I want the car to last atleast the duration of the finance period.
4) i dont have charging facilities at work.

Given the facts, can someone help me answer the following:
1) Given my commute distance will i be able to make the roundtrip even when its -40 outside without charging at work?
2) Given the battery degradation, can i expect that i will be able to do this commute for all the 7 years.
3) Including all the other driving, i expect to use the vehicle for 35K a year. Tesla warranty will end, does Tesla sell extended battery?
4) I have heard of the following issues with the vehicle:
Door handle freezing
Door windows freezing at the sil and door not opening
Water/ice buildup and bumper falling off
Any ideas if these have been resolved?
5) How effective is the touchscreen only usage in peak winter when we are wearing gloves?
6) What kind of charger to installl at home that works for Tesla as well as other brand EV's?
Any other comments/suggestions?

Thank you very much for taking the time to read my post.

So, giving your questions more thought.

I would put your commute into abetterrouteplanner.com, and adjust the temp for winter, the speed, and potential degradation of 10% by year 7, to see whether the battery capacity will work for you. Okay, I just did it, Brampton to Winona, is 150k r/t. Punching in 109% for reference speed, which makes your commute 120km/h, departure at 90% SOC, -40C, Snow, 10% degradation, you end up with 23% SOC and a 224Wh/k usage, when you get home, so abetterrouteplanner seems to think in worst case scenario you should make it no problem going from 90% SOC to 23% in extreme cold, snow on the road, and 10% deg in 7 years. Under normal Summer conditions, your SOC would be 47% when you get home.

There are a fair number of superchargers around your area, and there will probably be more over time, so I wouldn't think range should be an issue at all. And, if you keep your charge to 80% SOC in temperate weather, and 90% in Winter, your degradation should be minimized.

In 7 years, after 250k of driving, your battery should still be good, but by then, battery replacement could be alot cheaper. All of the freezing issues have been managed by common sense. For the touchscreen, a thin pair of gloves seems to work, but anything thicker won't.

Get yourself the most common 240V outlet in your area, NEMA 14-50, 10-30 or whatever, and then get the appropriate plug for your Tesla UMC. If it's installed near your box, it can be quite cheap. The materials themselves cost me $75, an Eaton 14-50 box, 8ft of 6 gauge wire, conduit, double-pole breakers. You don't have to buy a permanently-installed EVSE, you get a mobile one with the car.

 

[Chetanh]

Thank you for your reply.
So i guess warranty wise the difference between the Tesla and the Hyundai is that Hyundai is offering more warranty on the entire EV system.
Do we know if there are issues with the Model 3 EV system :Motor, Inverter unit, VCM, Reduction gear, DC/DC converter, Onboard
charger, Onboard charger connector, Trickle charge cable, In Cable
Control Box

Are these expensive to replace out of warranrt?

 

[KenC]

Thank you for your reply.
So i guess warranty wise the difference between the Tesla and the Hyundai is that Hyundai is offering more warranty on the entire EV system.
Do we know if there are issues with the Model 3 EV system :Motor, Inverter unit, VCM, Reduction gear, DC/DC converter, Onboard
charger, Onboard charger connector, Trickle charge cable, In Cable
Control Box

Are these expensive to replace out of warranrt?

I’ve owned a Volt and a Model 3. It hasn’t been long, but I think the number of reports of problems with the motors and electrical system has been tiny. There were far more reports of bad batteries and random electrical shutdowns, “shift-to-park” issues with the Volt, particularly the 2017s. One reason why I switched from a Volt to the Model 3.

 

[Kappelan]

I think in your shoes I would get a MR or LR on the secondary market.

We don't have used Model3 inventory in Canada yet.