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Newbie to TMC, ordering Model S soon, many questions

Discussion in 'The UK and Ireland' started by Dan77, Apr 26, 2018.

  1. Dan77

    Dan77 Member

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    Hi all,

    First post, so I'm treading carefully

    I've wanted a Model S ever since it first appeared. A few years on, I finally have the opportunity, and plan to order new within the next couple of months.

    Between now and then it's the inevitable research! I've got a few random questions below, which are as much about breaking the ice as anything...if you can help, then great.

    Undecided yet whether it'll be the 75d or 100d. Decision will come down to a combination of monthly cost (the car will be leased) and real world range. My longest regular journey (about 4 - 6 times a month) is to Gloucester and back from Leicestershire. Round trip of 240 miles. I imagine this is perfectly doable on a full charge in the 100, but probably not in the 75? Although, my Gloucester destination has a charge point (think it's 22kW).
    Any advice on the range issue would be much appreciated.

    Premium upgrade. This is the one time I wish Tesla would follow the Germans and allow you to pick and mix your options. I'd like a heated steering wheel and the upgraded filtration system, but I don't want the upgraded sound system or heated rear seats. Any opinions on the filtration system? Does it eliminate diesel smells and filter particulates?

    Enhanced Autopilot. My understanding is that as standard, the S comes with basic "dumb" cruise control...set speed, and it keeps that speed unless you brake, accelerate or disengage it. Is this correct? Does EA build on this turning it into a semi smart system? My current car has radar cruise, so it maintains a gap and specs up or slows down...is EA similar? I rarely use the cruise on my car, so am wondering if EA is worth it for me...any advice?

    Supercharging cost. I know that it used to be free for the S, but that since last year a charge was introduced. I've yet to drop into a Tesla store to ask, however, a work colleague visited a store some time ago. He told me that the advisor said that owners of the older S can "refer" the buyer of a newer car to allow the newer car to not be charged at a Supercharger. Is this correct? If so, how does it work?

    Wheels...love the look of the 21" wheels, but I imagine they generate more road noise and make the ride a bit harder?

    Colour...leaning towards either of the two silvers. Love black, but I know from experience it shows dirt and water marks. Cleaning your new car is a nice novelty for about a month!

    Anyway, hope I've not bored everybody with questions that have probably been asked a million times before

    Cheers,
    D
     
  2. hasselboxster

    hasselboxster Member

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    Almost definitely the 75d is NOT capable of making that trip without visiting a (super)charger. Back in 2013 when i got my first "S" ... the advice given to me was always go bigger battery than you need, and that has absolutely paid off time and time again. The 21" might effect range too - something not noted in your write up. Everything else is either a matter of preference or wishful thinking/thats just the way it is. Best of luck, whatever you get - its an awesome vehicle!
     
  3. Mokuzai

    Mokuzai Member

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    Welcome to the forum!

    For supercharging, you can get free supercharging if you use a referral code but technically that is only offered till 4/30 so you have through Monday to order a new or inventory model S or X for this benefit. If the code you're using hasn't been used yet this referral period you'll also get $500 credit towards Tesla products or services. If somebody here has helped you out you can click on their profile picture and many of us have our code on our profile. You may have to ask them personally if the $500 is still available though. Nobody knows for certain if the referral program after 4/30 will include any benefit to the person using the code.

    The 21" rims will affect range, not sure how accurate this post is but it gives an idea of the effect of going to 21".
    21” Aracnids vs 19” Slipstreams

    Enhanced Autopilot does include adaptive cruise control (Traffic Aware Cruise Control). It'll even come to a complete stop and start again for stop and go traffic. I dislike driving any car that doesn't have this now it's so useful for me.

    I'm partial to white or my 2nd option would have been the dark silver/grey.

    Hope that helps! I don't have the premium features and have a 75 RWD so that kind of range is beyond my ability. Also keep in mind temperature, driving style, weather, and of course tire size will all affect the range you can get.
     
  4. sidmini

    sidmini Banned

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    HI Dan.

    The general rule of thumb is battery is king however you might not really need 100d range, 75D can easily get you across the supercharger network. I reckon the 75D would do your round trip in summer but perhaps range drop in winter, can you charge en route?

    premium upgrade - I didn’t go for it and don’t regret it really the material in non premium are still good. pre-heating the car in winter essentially means you dont need heated seats and wheel.

    EAP is definitely worth it part of the reason the car is so good is because of it’s autopilot tech..if you are doing long motorways miles def worth it.

    Feel feel to use my referral code “siddharth3086” or Unlimited Tesla Supercharging and Extended Solar Warranty which will get you free supercharging for life!

    the 21” wheels are good for performance not for range, the ride is a bit bumpier but they look damn good!

    not many silvers but they do look awesome especially with the darker wheels.

    any questions just shout!
     
  5. Fellsteruk

    Fellsteruk Active Member

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    Welcome :)

    If you can afford the 100 get it but it’s a lot of cash for the bigger battery, I personally couldn’t push myself to that as well as the options I wanted.

    I also totally agree with you about the options but that said things are much simpler with Tesla, I tried to co figure a new BMW the other month I kept thinking will this ever end, death by options...

    The MS is super super sexy in the midnight silver, if I wasn’t so fat I’d get an S but it’s funny only for others to watch me get out of an MS but boy the dark grey/silver is just amazing!!!

    With the drive your doing I’d suggest you get EAP I do less than you and I cannot wait to use it I’m just fed up with motorway driving.

    Good luck with picking your new car as others have said be sure to use a referral code for free charging and a credit towards accessories which is currently £375, that’s either your first service paid for or most of the cost of a Chademo adapter.
     
  6. DJP31

    DJP31 Active Member

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    I have a 75D and 240 round trip in the summer is ok, not in the winter. The 100D would be fine but is a lot more money. If the destination charger is always available and you are there for a few hours then you’d have no problem with the 75D would you? Are there any Superchargers approx. en route?

    Enhanced autopilot would be a defo for me, especially doing the mileage you mention. Yes, it’s radar cruise and autosteering, for use on dual carriage and motorways principally. IMO you’ve only had a car without it.

    The HEPA filter is excellent, it really does take the rubbish out of the air.

    You can get a referral code from pretty much any of us, I chose someone who was very helpful when I was buying. You click on the code which takes you into the Design Centre and the referral is noted so you get the free Supercharging.

    With the colour choice try and go and see some in the metal, I though the Midnight Silver was dull until I saw one properly and it’s not dull, it’s great!!

    I’m 13 months in and have done 17k miles - I’m only supposed to do 10k a year :D
     
  7. Fellsteruk

    Fellsteruk Active Member

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    Agreed the silver is the bomb... why didn’t I order it :(...
     
  8. Tam

    Tam Well-Known Member

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    #8 Tam, Apr 26, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
    Range is King. It's just a convenience of flexibility so you have more options of skipping or choosing which Supercharger locations and also its supercharging rate is faster with higher capacity battery.

    Since it is a lease, and if budget is your priority, it's ok to get a 75D to temporarily experience the lesser capacity battery.

    It's a high tech car, so paying extra for it is very logical for me.

    Medical-grade HEPA filtration is so great!!!!

    For me, it does filter the smell of diesel exhaust, very foul smell from Harris Ranch Tesla Supercharger. CA cow manure, and very bad smell from skunks.

    Dumb cruise control is standard, included, without extra additional charge.

    It's just an adaptive cruise + autoSteer.

    Some people hate it because it is not perfected and there have been 2 documented Autopilot deaths so far.

    However, I love it and use it almost all the time for both highways and local streets for more than 1 year!

    It works very well in simple scenarios. It's great in stop-and-go traffic and I have become a very much happier driver for this scenario.

    It's up to your enthusiasm to be an early adopter and ability to follow instructions of how to use it.

    Since it is a lease, you don't need to buy it and you can temporarily abstain from it until the system gets better.


    Like others have posted, if you buy new customized cars or new inventories, you can use a referral code for lifetime free supercharging.

    Some old Tesla cars have permanent supercharging no matter how many owners they have. Some don't. So, you have to ask which is which.

    Even when you don't, Tesla S and X still give you about 400 kWh of free Supercharger allotment (about 1,000 miles) per year.

    Even if you have to pay, it's still cheaper than gasoline.

    Bottom line, I wouldn't lose sleep over it!

    Bigger wheels are fine for look if you can afford the cost. They wear faster, cost more, rougher ride, noisier... but again, you can't beat the look!

    Since it is a lease, if it will cost you a lot, that will only be temporarily.
     
  9. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Well-Known Member

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    Bjørn Nyland speaks very highly of it ("Manure" and "Durian" :) ), he has plenty of Tesla videos ...

    Harsh ride, likely to be damaged if you hit a pothole, and likely to cost you 20% range. So a trade off between looks and practicality.

    Yup. Current round ending shortly, but every "referral round" ... so far ... has ended and been replaced with something similar. I think Unlimited supercharging will continue for S / X (subsidised, over time, by M3 which only have pay-for option) The car-price has basically got the value of the "prize" for the referrer baked in (I'll guess £500) so choose with that in mind. You are welcome to use my referral code and can have whatever swag that entails (probably a set of 21", limited edition, wheels funnily enough ...) so long as you come and collect them :) You would be better off with someone who has no referrals yet as there is an extra cash element, but also the first couple of referrals have a prize of a Tesla Wall Charger - assuming the Referee gives it to you! - which would be something useful to you. You can forward order (I think) 6 months, and historically any price increase, or improvements to the car, have been "thrown in". De[posit non-refundable after a cooling-off period.

    Fixed speed cruise control on basic model. EAP gives you "Autopilot". My 2p-worth is that AP makes a significant difference to the driver on either motorway journeys or bumper-to-bumper traffic. I arrive much more refreshed than "old days". However, if you get it, promise yourself that you will always (no exceptions) have a hand on the wheel and eyes on the road. The problem with it is that once in a very long while it may do something daft which will kill you. Its happened twice (that I know of) and on both occasions Tesla says that data shows the driver had hands off wheel and was not paying attention. I've driven 10,000's of motorway miles on Autopilot and never had an event like that ... but that's the problem, easy to become complacent. But I have had a couple of events where AP may have saved me from an accident - e.g. just at the time I looked down at the dash the car in front braked (and AP slowed down) ... maybe I would have looked up in time ... My view is that if both AP and ME are driving then only one of us needs to spot danger, and the two of us has got to be better than just ME (I'm a superb driver by the way ... :rolleyes:)

    I am doubtful. I have a P90D, my max range is 220 real-world-miles if 16-20C (range a bit better in an S than a P). I keep 20 miles "buffer" (that's obviously proportionately less on a 100 than a 75) when trip-planning. In lousy weather (torrential rain would be worse than winter cold) you can lose 20% of range. Another point to note is that car will lose, say, 5% range over first 100K miles, and maybe 10% range over its lifetime, so if you are a high mileage driver that could be a factor during your ownership (Tesla owners will tell you that you will drive more once you own a Tesla :) ); the fastest "battery degradation rate" occurs on new batteries. The worst thing for Winter range is the travelling salesman. Stop for an hour at each location, battery cools, first 10-20 minutes of the next drive then uses a lot of energy heating things up. In that scenario plugging in, even to a 13AMP socket, at each stop solves that. Heating/Cooling cabin on "Shore Power" before you leave is a big help (you can do that from the Phone APP, or using a scheduling tool)

    My advice to prospective owners is to try their regular "worst case" routes in A Better Route Planner. It lets you choose model / wheels (i.e. in terms of range) and Start/Destination and ABRP will route via Supercharger if needed.

    You'll need to do your own man-maths, but I think number-of-supercharger-visits a month is a key element in justifying bigger battery.

    All models charge 10% to 70% in the same time (about 30-35 minutes) [above 80% the charge rate slows down dramatically, so best to stop "near empty" rather than "almost full"] so you get "more miles/unit of time" on a bigger battery. You also go further before you have to stop. Some journeys may become possible without charging (but you'll be lucky if your real-world journey is right on the cusp of 75-not-possible and 100-doable. :cool: )

    If you are driving 300 miles straight, then a stop to recharge at 200-ish miles is good for the driver. However, it just prolongs the journey for a passenger. When we drive to France on long trips [in ICE] we swap drivers, rather than long-stop to rest the driver, but if we had Kids / dogs with us we'd be long-stopping for sure! If you can do e.g. email at Supercharger, that you would otherwise do when you got home, then the stop makes no difference. And you get a break.

    A Supercharger stop is the time to charge, but also the time to get off Motorway into service centre. Or, as is sometimes the case, a detour of 10 miles to include a Supercharger in your route, which can easily add 15 minutes before you even start charging ... depends on the route of course, and more Superchargers are being rolled up each year. Or ... far worse! ... a stop at a crappy non-Tesla charger, both slow (the fastest CHAdeMO is only 50% speed of Supercharger), rarely have more than 1 or 2 stalls, so may be occupied, and repair etc. doesn't have a good track record (Tesla very rare to have a fault-problem, and most locations have lots of stalls, I have never had to wait). However, if there is a crappy charger at your destination, in the car park / Park-and-Ride / Hotel then Great! Charge the car for an hour or two whilst you shop / eat.

    For me, I want to be able to get to Client / Friends / Wedding ... without charging, so I need enough range to visit-client and get back to Supercharger on the return trip. A delay at supercharger (e.g. all stalls full, or slow charging [both very rare]) is unacceptable out-bound as it will make me late for meeting / require I leave earlier. On return journey it just makes me a bit late home.

    If you are not already aware: the thing about EV is that you leave home with a full tank of fuel. Every day. Also, if you have to stop to "top up" then you only need enough to get to destination / next charger; you don't "fill the tank for the next 600 miles" like an ICE car. That helps the maths for the bigger-battery (for those people who need it). The 100 will go 1/3rd further than 75, and charge 1/3rd more miles in same time. If you would [have to] supercharge on your Gloucester trip, 4 - 6 times a month, and you save 15 minutes each time, you will probably justify it to yourself ... if you Supercharge once a month, or less, the figures will look expensive.

    Here's my maths: if the 100 is, say, £15K more than the 75, and it deprecates 50% over 3 years, then I have £200 a month. If I stop at Supercharger 4-6 times a month, for 15 minutes extra that's £30 - £50 a stop. Personally I have no difficulty justifying that sort of "charge rate" or even "convenience rate"

    But if you can charge at Destination then much less point having the 100.

    Another justification for larger battery is "detour risk". Having a larger battery means that a detour is less likely to also need a top-up charge e.g. if SatNav wants to re-route, or you get a call to run-an-errand. In those situations I would find having to stop-and-charge a major annoyance. But I regard my lifestyle as "time poor"

    Sadly that doesn't often apply in the UK. We don't have that sort of road infrastructure or Supercharger density. Road trips of more than 250 miles in a day are rare, and then usually out-and-back rather than "going across country".

    Coupe of other points in case relevant:
    • Company Car has 100% first year allowance (but tax payable at the end on "profit" of sale)
    • Benefit-in-kind tax is a joke in the current/coming? (I forget) year, but thereafter lucrative again.
    • Charging at work is not a benefit-in-kind.
    • Allow £600 for installation of a charger at home (for a relatively simple "on the wall near the consumer unit")
    If you haven't had a test drive I recommend booking one. However, before you do that you MUST see this video :)

     
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  10. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Well-Known Member

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    Blimey I do drone on ...
     
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  11. Peteski

    Peteski Active Member

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    Tough call this one. I think you could count on a comfortable 200 mile range with the 75D, but 240 is probably pushing it too far and would almost certainly compromise your cruising speed. But if you can supercharge en-route or rely on destination charging (providing you are parked up for 5 or more hours) then range would not be an issue at all. In the end it just comes down to cash vs convenience and which you personally value most for your usage. Another point that rarely gets a mention is that the 75D is around 150 kg lighter, so more agile handling and braking and it's quite noticeable if you are pushing on. It may be weight very low down, but it is a lot of weight to carry around if you don't need it most of the time.

    The upgraded filtration includes the large HEPA filter and 2 additional smaller carbon filters. Together they keep everything nasty and/or smelly out of the car. Now you can get hold of aftermarket HEPA filters (and possibly OEM spec ones), but I haven't seen anyone offering the carbon filters - which some non-upgrade owners seem to think are standard fitment anyway, even though they are clearly listed as a separate item on the upgrade package. But anyway, an aftermarket air filter upgrade is one possible solution to your dilemma.

    I'm not sure if you get standard passive cruise control as standard, it's a good question that I'm sure someone will answer. EAP has a very effective adaptive cruise control (TACC = Traffic Aware Cruise Control) which works at any speed right down to zero and you can easily adjust the "gap" distance from the stalk. It's very good and intuitive to use and so I use it when following any line of traffic anywhere. In addition to TACC, there is also Auto-steer which effectively automates the car. This obviously has to be used wisely to avoid killing yourself, but the latest version works very well indeed on motorways and dual carriageways and can even be used on many single lane roads with half decent markings. It's not by any means full-self-drive, as it's not aware of traffic lights or navigation, but it does a decent job of automating your drive along a simple well marked road, even a fairly narrow one. The latest AP2 version is very accurate in following even narrow lanes without wandering as older versions often did. You really need to try it out for a weekend before deciding if you think it's worth having. I was sceptical beforehand, but glad I bought it. It's worth noting that AP2 has recently seen a big step forward, as widely reported on the forums, so be careful when researching reviews since earlier versions of AP2 had various issues and was considered a backward step from AP1. But that is not the case today.

    You will get free supercharging by using someone's referral code when you order (any current S or X owner can provide a code for you). The current offer expires at the end of this month, but will almost certainly be replaced by a similar offer. My advice is to use the code of someone local who is willing to offer you plenty of free advice. Loads of random people will casually offer you a referral code without going out of their way to help. Just remember by using someone's referral code, you are doing them a big favour too as the rewards are pretty valuable e.g. a full set of 21" wheels/tyres, wall charger, powerwall, etc.

    You imagine correctly. They also reduce your range quite significantly. You have to really love the look of them to go there! I wouldn't personally, but plenty of people do. Luckily I think the standard wheels look great too and are a better overall compromise between looks and practicality.

    Best of luck and hope it all works out for you. They are amazing cars to drive!
     
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  12. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Well-Known Member

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    #12 WannabeOwner, Apr 27, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2018
    I hear people saying how good the MS road handling is ... and indeed the centre of gravity is indeed low ... but I don't know what else those pundits have driven, but I find it "wallows" - not surprising for the tonne in weight of the batteries (although deduct from that the equivalent weight of an engine / transmission)

    I do have a toy sports car, but apart from that I have not (recently) owned proper sports cars, but the hatchbacks I have had have felt more convincing going around corners than the MS, albeit that I haven't stuffed the MS in the hedge ... yet!

    Good post @Peteski :)
     
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  13. Peteski

    Peteski Active Member

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    Thanks @WannabeOwner! I'm a Race Engineer by profession, so vehicle dynamics is very much my thing. Weight is a fundamental enemy of handling performance and a 150 kg saving is very significant. These are inherently very heavy cars and the low centre of gravity is more of a consolation in minimising the detrimental effects of the increased weight. So you end up with a car that is necessarily stiffly sprung to support the weight and prone to feeling a bit "bouncy" over undulations for the want of a better word. They don't suffer much body roll though due to the very low CofG and wide track, but the weight still reduces agility in any sudden change of direction. A car like the S is never going to feel as nimble and agile as a lightweight sportscar or hot-hatch, but it could actually feel more stable and planted on the road in more steady state cornering with its ultra-low CofG, long wheelbase, wide track and balanced weight distribution. A great GT car in other words!
     
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  14. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Well-Known Member

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    Ah, OK, that's my problem then ... thanks for your explanation. I of course don't need any of that agility on Motorway, which is majority of my driving, but for the rest I'm on countryside roads and chucking it around corners is much less "GT" and much more "sudden change of direction" :) That explains why (American predominantly) commentators say the handling is good. Everywhere I've driven stateside was more GT than snake-cornered ...
     
  15. Lolly

    Lolly Member

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    I'm a couple of months into owning my S75D and can state categorically that it's enough for your particular described needs. Yes I'd love a 100D of course, but why shell out all that extra cash for the occasional trip when you can work a short Supercharger stop into the route? If it was a more regular trip then battery size is of course king.

    With the current state of the UKs roads, I'd definitely avoid 21" wheels, they look great but just examine them every time you see one, 9/10 they're bashed, so not pothole friendly at all. I'd rather have a set of rims that start off looking good and stay good than a set that start looking great and end up looking crap.

    Personally, I don't like full leather seats so specifically sought out a non-premium upgrade car. I like both the look and comfort of the non-premium seats.

    I liked the heated steering wheel, but with pre-conditioning it's almost a moot point. Yes, the premium stereo is slightly better than the standard, but definitely not by enough of a margin to necessitate the purchase.

    I love AP though and would definitely go for that!

    All in all, I'm very pleased with an S75D with AP and nowt else!
     
  16. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Well-Known Member

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    You can get 240 miles out of a charge? (with a little buffer let's say). And in Winter too?

    260 miles (allowing for 20 mile buffer) would be 288Wh/mile (assuming that a full 75kWh is available), which strikes me as pretty frugal :)

    If there is a Supercharger en route (O/P hasn't mentioned that) then it would be fine.
     
  17. Lolly

    Lolly Member

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    There's a 16 stall at Hopwood park (M42 J2) en-route ~70 miles for the OP. It's money vs convenience of course. Personally, I can't drive 120 miles in one go without a loo/refreshment stop anyway and no matter how quick I am it always seems to take 20 mins at least, which puts a nice chunk of miles in at the supercharger.
     
  18. WannabeOwner

    WannabeOwner Well-Known Member

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    Apologies, I took the O/Ps description of the journey as being too broad to plan a route, so didn't bother to look at the map ... but I've done that now :) and hard to imagine starting anywhere in Leicestershire and not going past Hopwood Park.

    I've stopped there, and I think it's a really good advert for Tesla ... loads of charging stalls right by the front door to the food emporium :)
     
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  19. Tozz

    Tozz Active Member

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    Aesthetics aside. I would recommend you take the standard 19":

    - Cheaper in both initial purchase and tire replacement
    - Less noise
    - More comfort
    - Less chance of curb damage (the 21" are notorious. You will not find a Tesla on 21" without curb damage)
    - Better range
     
  20. Mokuzai

    Mokuzai Member

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    Over 13k miles on my 21" arachnids and so far no curb damage <knock on wood>. They have taken a few nicks from road rocks though.
     

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