Nurburgring and Plaid

[juanmedina]

"unmodified, directly from the factory". Hmm, which factory puts this instrument cluster in the Plaid and the kill switch by the mirror?

View attachment 707447Plaid

Is the German Plaid different from USA Plaid? What do these buttons do in the German version?
View attachment 707450

Oh wait! You mean special order from the factory, one which only Elon can order edition?

Another interesting question, which speedometer is right? Is Tesla IC showing "EV speed", which is somehow special and not equal to actual physics defined speed (like Tesla's explanation how P85D was a 700hp car, because EV horse-power is different/special). Or is this famous Tesla production quality - speed calibration off by 11km/h is "normal".

View attachment 707451

Sorry folks, I know this is sarcasm, but being a Tesla customer of 8+ years, I know everything coming out of Elon is pure hype BS which has asterisks attached to it which won't be made public for a few years - special EV horse-power is different than ICE hp (worth 150% actually), AP1 will find you anywhere on private property, AP2 capable of full Level 5 autonomy, FSD ready to drive cost to coast by end of 2017, etc. I'm just warning those who have not been with Tesla for long (or perhaps don't even own one yet).

Hey buddy is time to move on and stay in your Taycan forum. Nurburgring already posted the time as official lap time so go and cry somewhere else. Driver safety is important and every manufacturer adds safety equipment and obviously they need telemetry equipment as well.

Your beloved Taycan doesn't even have an official record Nurburgring lol

 

[mark95476]

FUD is exceptionally weak... "All this extra stuff (weight) in the car. Must have given Tesla an advantage."

Also, a datalogger is mandatory by Nurburgring. Tesla's time was officially recognized, unlike Taycan.

Also: IAA Munich, not Berlin. It still happened in Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, ...etc... back yard during their big auto event.

The aftermarket speedo is probably showing true groundspeed. Original clusters are often wrong, and the difference between speedo and GPS speed will just increase with the increased speed. I've never owned a car that has shown the true speed I'm driving.
The speedometer should never show a lower speed than you're actually travelling, but if I'm not mistaken they are federally allowed to show 10% more than the actual speed. So manufacturers tend to lay on the safe side to make up for different tire sizes.

Edit: It actually looks like the GPS antenna for the speed is in the middle of the dashboard, just like the taycan had during its run.

Silver box is a fire extinguisher system made by 'Lifeline'. Another safety addition, nothing more.
There is inherent lag in a GPS-based speed readout. The dash display is a Motec data logger/display which can be programmed to show various data coming from the car. It's a sophisticated Dragy, that's all.

those are safety add-ons which are required, and does not affect performance of the car

 

[Darthamerica]

Hey dude, assuming you're the same Darth from forums?

Whats your take on Plaid S vs Taycan?

Hi Andy it’s me. I think it’s too soon to compare and draw too many conclusions these cars with one off runs. I’d say that Tesla has vastly improved Model S from where it was with Raven and earlier. But it still seems to lack the refinement of the Porsche and it’s making it up with power and price point. That extra power out of turns is probably making a difference. But as you can see, and as I’ve discussed over and over in the old days, those sub 7:10 times that people were expecting are a fantasy and the test mule that did it a few years ago was not anything near a production car.

 

[WilliamG]

It's also a bit disingenuous to use a racing seat, too. At what point is the time not sanctioned? The roll cage vs lighter seat probably cancel each other out to some degree, but this is clearly not a car direct from the factory - the seat change bothers me.

 

[juanmedina]

No one was bothered by the Taycan seat and harness lol. I assume is a requirement by the track; it's all about the safety of the driver.

 

[WilliamG]

No one was bothered by the Taycan seat and harness lol. I assume is a requirement by the track; it's all about the safety of the driver.

View attachment 707571

But Porsche never claimed this was a car direct from the factory, either. Elon did.

 

[andy.connor.e]

Hi Andy it’s me. I think it’s too soon to compare and draw too many conclusions these cars with one off runs. I’d say that Tesla has vastly improved Model S from where it was with Raven and earlier. But it still seems to lack the refinement of the Porsche and it’s making it up with power and price point. That extra power out of turns is probably making a difference. But as you can see, and as I’ve discussed over and over in the old days, those sub 7:10 times that people were expecting are a fantasy and the test mule that did it a few years ago was not anything near a production car.

ya im not aware of any of the projected times or anything. just more on the new acceleration, top speed, single transmission. ultimately no matter what it ends up being, porsche will be porsche and tesla will not be porsche so will always be distinctly different.

 

[mark95476]

No record exists of any Taycan time. Porsche PR claimed something that wasn't recognized by Nurburgring.

This is official with the same car all Plaid S owners can buy.

The "base" config is incredibly capable and the sky's the limit after a few upgrades.

Go to the strip and dominate.
Go to the track and dust everyone.
Load up the family, go out for a meal and then drive back home.

But Porsche never claimed this was a car direct from the factory, either. Elon did.

 

[WilliamG]

No record exists of any Taycan time. Porsche PR claimed something that wasn't recognized by Nurburgring.

This is official with the same car all Plaid S owners can buy.

The "base" config is incredibly capable and the sky's the limit after a few upgrades.

Go to the strip and dominate.
Go to the track and dust everyone.
Load up the family, go out for a meal and then drive back home.

Except not 100% the same. The stock seats would be no fun at all at the ‘ring.

 

[rEVhappy]

Made this a while ago, relevant today

 

[whitex]

those are safety add-ons which are required, and does not affect performance of the car

Would better brakes also be considered a safety add-on?

 

[Grassright]

Would better brakes also be considered a safety add-on?

no，but brakes are easy to upgrade for any car

 

[Darthamerica]

no，but brakes are easy to upgrade for any car

I think you’re right that brake upgrades aren’t a big deal in general but Tesla’s aren’t just any car. A race enthusiast shop could do it, but the average Plaid customer may have to think about the way FSD and other systems are calibrated to work with the braking system. Also considering how much of a struggle Tesla has with their ability to service their cars, I would hesitate to modify something as important as brakes with anything that isn’t a Tesla factory option. How many of us would ever take these cars close enough to their limit to make this worth the potential trouble?

Has anyone here ever upgraded their Model S braking system?

 

[Gixx1300R]

I think you’re right that brake upgrades aren’t a big deal in general but Tesla’s aren’t just any car. A race enthusiast shop could do it, but the average Plaid customer may have to think about the way FSD and other systems are calibrated to work with the braking system. Also considering how much of a struggle Tesla has with their ability to service their cars, I would hesitate to modify something as important as brakes with anything that isn’t a Tesla factory option. How many of us would ever take these cars close enough to their limit to make this worth the potential trouble?

Has anyone here ever upgraded their Model S braking system?

 

[bhzmark]

Model 3 Perf owners (with AP and FSD) have been upgrading brakes and other bits for years. Just like Porsche and BMW owners do. no big deal.

will be the same w Model S now that we have a battery source compatible with track runs — and can last longer than the Taycans battery which craps out after 1 ‘ring lap

 

[DavidB]

Roadster owners have been modifying the brakes from almost the beginning, and I know of Model S owners modifying their brakes in 2013. Wouldn't surprise me if some were modified back in 2012. There were kits to modify the Model X brakes within a month of it's initial release.

 

[daktari]

There are many videos of 3Ps that cook their brakes on the Ring early in the lap.

That is probably why Andreas Simonsen need to coast a bit on the record run according to some pros.
I guess a track package with real bucket seats, bigger brakes (ceramic maybe), carbon roof and bonnet, a bigger rear spoiler and even lower suspension would be a nice upgrade for even a faster time.

 

[Darthamerica]

Roadster owners have been modifying the brakes from almost the beginning, and I know of Model S owners modifying their brakes in 2013. Wouldn't surprise me if some were modified back in 2012. There were kits to modify the Model X brakes within a month of it's initial release.

You’re may be missing my point. No doubt a single owner can modify their Tesla. But how reliable and practical are those aftermarket mods going to be for everyday use cases vs factory OEM integrated or developed parts. Then if something goes wrong, can Tesla or your aftermarket supplier support the maintenance? These are open questions for Tesla.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

You’re may be missing my point. No doubt a single owner can modify their Tesla. But how reliable and practical are those aftermarket mods going to be for everyday use cases vs factory OEM integrated or developed parts. Then if something goes wrong, can Tesla or your aftermarket supplier support the maintenance? These are open questions for Tesla.

Aftermarket parts are often every bit as practical and more reliable and longer lasting than factory parts, which are designed and made to fit a budget. The days of over-engineered production cars are long gone.
There are already many fellow Model 3 owners I know who have replaced various suspension and braking components with higher quality and more durable replacements. Yes, we realise we won't have factory warranty on those parts and a Tesla SC won't service them, but we'd rather have a car which performs better and can cope with hard driving. I know not everyone will want to go that route, but it's great we have a choice, unlike some countries where it is expressly forbidden to do any modifications to a road car, even if it's an improvement on the factory spec.

 

[mark95476]

You don't know how true that is. All that racing heritage commands a huge premium for their vehicles.

It's really surprising that they haven't tried responding in all that time leading up to last week. I think it's because Porsche can't (yet).

Made this a while ago, relevant today

Some people bring-up Rimac. You think Porsche, and the German auto industry, would try outsourcing this to some Croatians? That'd be quite embarrassing.