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NYT article: Stalled on the EV Highway

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From the NYT article, it is clear the author is not a EV enthusiast, but the author is part of the Mass market of car drivers.

I love your ideas for the extra design intelligence into planning and monitoring trips and parked time.

One thing that has been a sad for me throughout this story is the amount of elitism/despective attitude towards normal people that bring their own mental models, ideas, or lack thereof into driving a new form of vehicle.
It is good design if it considers that and helps people bridge into a new behavior or makes the default, most idiotic path the right one ("if the user stumbles, make sure it is into success"). And that is in Tesla's hands. Very few people advocate EVs should be just as ICEs, but if people know that a) the transition exists and that b) the most design-savvy and premium EV manufacturer (TM) still doesn't have their back it will create a larger "fear gap".

Even if the NYT guy turns out to be malicious or plain incompetent, the EV community should be clear about yeah, there's differences, yeah, and the practices to avoid these issues may not be 100% obvious and the car doesn't tell you -- YET. But the work on these things is ongoing.

I know Tesla Motors will do the right thing and improve design on all necessary fronts; but I think we do a disservice to EVs when we tell people the gap doesn't exist.
 
Interesting interview but I believe Elon needs to be careful when he completely downplays any effect of cold on the batteries.
The experiences reported here related to the challenges of managing battery range in cold temperatures tend to support a somewhat different view.
It seems to me that it is difficult to argue that the general consensus on this forum is that Tesla needs to improve battery management before next winter and also improve how they communicate and educate drivers about the cold.

Yes, it would be prudent for Tesla to tackle the cold weather performance of the Model S over the next 10 months. As many have suggested this can be addressed on several levels:

  • The user interface offer a more detailed view of individual systems' energy usage
  • The projected range data could be prominently shown as it once was
  • A detailed trip planning/NAV app with access to and effect of weather and topography plus charging stations en-route could be implemented. (As rbergquist suggested along with other good points here: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...the-EV-Highway?p=273770&viewfull=1#post273770 )
  • The sleep function needs to be de-bugged and reissued.
  • The SuperCharger network needs to be built out more on the East Coast and perhaps at closer intervals specifically in the Northeast. (I wonder how current/past revenue flow and the upcoming earnings statement impacts the roll-out.)

By this summer there will be around 10,000 Model Ses driving the nations roads and highways. This will be the bright time that all eyes will get to really see what a useable, gorgeous, high performance car it is, while the engineers in Palo Alto massage the drive train and software for the second winter.

As many threads will attest on both Tesla forum sites, there is room for winter driving and cold weather battery management improvements. There's a dash vent retrofit to combat the fogging issue and the NAV app mentioned above might come sooner from a third party if Tesla were to open up the UI to outside apps.

I'm sure Elon Musk won't have difficulty finding journalists willing to repeat this reporter's winter drive. Bloomberg West just explicitly asked in an interview and he seemed all over it, suggesting first a drive to Tahoe since they're "West" or flying them to the Northeast to repeat the original trip. It'll be great advertising when they and others succeed. He should make it happen with several media venues. Turn/refute a negative into a positive!
 
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Being a left-coaster I'm only slightly familiar with driving in and around NYC. But what I do recall from a few visits is that there is no such thing as a short "break" in Manhattan. That requires a major commitment in time and miles when leaving the quasi-comfortable environment of an interstate. He made it sound like he went a couple of blocks off the interstate and had a Coke. The guy's a shill or moron.
 
Being a left-coaster I'm only slightly familiar with driving in and around NYC. But what I do recall from a few visits is that there is no such thing as a short "break" in Manhattan. That requires a major commitment in time and miles when leaving the quasi-comfortable environment of an interstate. He made it sound like he went a couple of blocks off the interstate and had a Coke. The guy's a shill or moron.

Not taking sides, and I'd love to see the data tesla has, but I drove into NYC today. I left the Lincoln tunnel with 99 miles of range, drove across manhattan to the east side, and entered the midtown tunnel with around 93. Drove to a friend's in rego park, then back to long island city to drop my car off at the service center. dropped her off with about 86 miles iirc.

NYC is a big city, but the actual distance travelled in the city isn't that great, and with the low speeds, as long as you're not jack rabbiting down each block, your actual usage should be fairly low.
 
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Check the tweets after Elon said it. Lot's of reporters jumping at the chance.

Now he should immediately get several journalists seated up and back on that same route after a short, specific tutorial. Assign each a knowledgeable handler and send them off. Strike while the controversy's cookin'. But continue to improve the supercharging infrastructure and the car's battery management in cold weather.
 
Not taking sides, and I'd love to see the data tesla has, but I drove into NYC today. I left the Lincoln tunnel with 99 miles of range, drove across manhattan to the east side, and entered the midtown tunnel with around 93. Drove to a friend's in rego park, then back to long island city to drop my car off at the service center. dropped her off with about 86 miles iirc.

NYC is a big city, but the actual distance travelled in the city isn't that great, and with the low speeds, as long as you're not jack rabbiting down each block, your actual usage should be fairly low.

How many miles are you talking about (minimum and likely)? Tesla surely knows how many miles it was. Would you agree then, that the pure mention of a "short break" in Manhattan, does not constitute reporting that a "detour" was taken (not even for someone knowing the area) ?
 
Now he should immediately get several journalists seated up and back on that same route after a short, specific tutorial. Assign each a knowledgeable handler and send them off. Strike while the controversy's cookin'. But continue to improve the supercharging infrastructure and the car's battery management in cold weather.

Finally the Superchargers receive a journalistic workout... ;)
 
I tweeted @HannahElliott with the following: "@HannahElliott Can you blame @TeslaMotors for monitoring journalist drives after how they were screwed by @bbc_topgear ? Read up on it."
https://twitter.com/DJFrustration/status/301110059675561985

She "favorite'd" it. Don't know what it means but at least the point may have come across.

Nice. If Top Gear didn't have a heads up on the debacle, they do now!

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The last leg, the third supercharge, was 216 mile range. At the end of the trip, he had 124 miles remaining. Info is in the graphic which you get by clicking on the "Multimedia" insert. The same graphic states the 1-hour Level 2 "low power charge" reached 32 miles range (not 40), which is close to my previous calculation of 30 miles range).

The critical part should have been covered by the second supercharge, which however he stopped at 185 miles range obtained.

No doubt this reporter did a lot of wrong, malicious or not. However the elephant in the room is that he charged to more than he needed for his trip out and back to the hotel from the supercharger, then lost 65 miles of it overnight. That would be unexpected to me and I've driven the Roadster in snow and freezing conditions. People seem to be sweeping this under the carpet and I hope Tesla actually addresses it.
 
Yes he says that he was expecting to get a lot back, as per Tesla's advice, but it was clearly not enough. How much should one expect back, could you say?

And we are berating him for not fully charging at supercharger 2, but he thought he had enough for his needs and went. I've done the same on roadtrips, in the freezing cold. The charge is ramping down, you have enough so why wait?
 
I wonder if this kind of thing could be ameliorated somewhat by having the deafult display show percentage of charge rather than a guestimate of available miles. Most other chargable devices don´t show an estimate of hours remaining...too many variables. I could image the crap Apple would get if the iPad displayed available hours and people didn´t those ideal numbers.
 
No doubt this reporter did a lot of wrong, malicious or not. However the elephant in the room is that he charged to more than he needed for his trip out and back to the hotel from the supercharger, then lost 65 miles of it overnight. That would be unexpected to me and I've driven the Roadster in snow and freezing conditions. People seem to be sweeping this under the carpet and I hope Tesla actually addresses it.

It also came unexpected to me, and that's why I don't believe it just because he says it. I'm not saying it can't be true, but given the craziness of further actions, I have strong doubts about the numbers and what he thought he was being told exactly (and also about whether he conveyed the situation correctly and sufficiently to those who then advised him). While we have heard before that in cold temperatures there will be a lower displayed range shown in the morning, which then partially recovers while driving, these numbers would seem to be a rather extreme example, if they were correct, I think.

It appears (though I'm not completely sure), even based on his own account, that a full range charge at the previous Supercharger would have saved him from that trouble altogether (not that much was missing). Also, for trips in which a full range charge would not suffice, hotels will have EV plugs in the future, so in those cases this should not be an issue even for existing EVs. So I see this as a side-issue in terms of the story (though an issue which Tesla and perhaps this forum should examine separately, but this article doesn't seem to be a good starting point for 'lessons for the cold').

The key to the current situation, in my view, is that the Model S would have been very able to handle this trip, and with sufficient heating (as long as you are not too much in a hurry to wait for the supercharge to finish). The key message of the article is the claim that this would not be the case. Which appears to be false in terms of available information, and it sounds like Tesla's upcoming blog may show even more problems with the story.

Additionally, Tesla now claims to have given him sufficient instructions, at least for the second leg of the trip, contradicting his own report. So I hope we get that clarified in the upcoming blog, since Tesla received a lot of criticism for their assistance or lack thereof. Which perhaps they didn't deserve. But the important part, in my view, is that the Model S would have been up to the task (even in the cold), and it will get even better with more Superchargers and other infrastructure.

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The charge is ramping down, you have enough so why wait?

He suggests he believed that he could expect to simply get the "rated range", even though he apparently knew that it is speed dependent, and dependent on the use of the climate control, plus he made his first experiences on the first leg of his tour. I'm too tired to explain what I would be tempted to conclude from that. ;)
 
Sooo how many people here are going to duplicate that drive to prove how wrong NYT was? I could do it soon if I get my car by the end of month...keeping my fingers crossed. My brother gets out of school in D.C. for spring break the week of March 4th, and my sister lives in Milford, CT ... if I do have it by then, I could go pick my bro up and do a D.C. -> Milford, CT run and show everyone how easy it is to do with plenty of range left. Given that's 3 weeks away though, I'm sure there's going to be a handful of people, including reporters, that will already have done this by then.
 
Man I am getting tired of anti-EV FUD! It's getting oldschool now! Why can't they just friggin leave Tesla motors alone? Why are they so friggin vicious? It's sad really. I hope they will shut up one day.

The oil companies want to bury tesla(.)
The sales of luxary gaz guzlers have been serverly hit by Tesla.
So they want to tarnish Tesla as much as they can.
Only us consumers and Tesla and futurists will make them shut up.
Anyways i feel its creates controversy and our pride and their envy :)
I am taking it as a free advertisement for Tesla.
Tesla needs to stay in the news as much as possible so more and more people become aware of its technology.

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Jefferies defends Tesla Motors (TSLA -3.2%)... - Seeking Alpha
 
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I don't know why people are claiming any kind of conspiracy here. The NYT article from the California drive was glowing.

A number of errors were made and I blame Tesla for not properly educating the driver. No range mode to start, since the initial reading was 242 miles range. Then the author left the vehicle overnight without being plugged in, in sub-zero temps no less. All of us who own the car know that if we drive the car aggressively, or more accurately, faster than 55 MPH, the range is going to drop. 200 miles between super chargers is a bad decision. If I am driving from one supercharger to the next, I would need to charge a full charge before I leave the first supercharger. These things should be placed within traveling distance of a half charge. I don't want to have to drive at 55 with the cruise control on to get from place to place.

Most importantly, as early adopters we all are prepared for the impracticality of driving long distances with the Model S. The average American consumer is not. This story will not ruin Tesla. It's a black eye and they will recover.

Lastly, Elon needs help in addressing the media. Calling the story a fake is bad PR. This is the New York Times and they have credibility as journalists. The population won't understand range charge vs. standard charge. Personally I don't like Elon talking about the logs of the drive. Way too big brother for me. His response will do more damage than it will fix.
 
We don't yet know exactly what Tesla was telling the driver, Elon has a conflicting view from what the reporter claimed. It is possible the reporter either received bad information or misinterpreted it, or a combination of both. The main problem was the conclusion that the car was at fault, when in fact it could have made the trip if it had been operated properly.
 
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