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NYT article: Stalled on the EV Highway

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My thoughts as well. Did he realize he could do a range charge? Of course he did. Did he make a conscious decision to NOT do a range charge? Of course he did. Did he know he should plug in at night especially when it's freezing cold outside? Not a doubt in my mind. Did he speed? No question. In a sense, I believe he drove the car like someone who was pissed he had to plug it in at all. Did he know where hotels/motels were that would accommodate EV's? Most likely. Did he make a conscious decision to NOT use one of those hotels/motels. Most likely. Sorry, but that is how it comes across IMNSHO (InMyNotSoHumbleOpinion) as none of this is provable. This seems like he was given or had a goal of "get a picture of your car being towed".

"Facts [ Information ] tell, Stories [ Entertainment ] SELL"
-- Motorsports

NASCAR hit the big-time, when the human-interest aspect of racing (driver personalities & conflicts) made it into a "soap-opera".

A "dry" success story of long-range drive simply isn't "interesting". Failure ("drama") sells newspaper copy. Journalism is a brutally competitive business, competing news outlets will resort to ANYTHING. During TV ratings periods, all sorts of CRAZY sensational stories are aired to attract viewers, boost ratings (& thus advertising rates).

Take a look at this article

If It Bleeds, It Leads: Understanding Fear-Based Media | Psychology Today

News is a money making industry. One that doesn't always make the goal to report the facts accurately. Gone are the days of tuning in to be informed straightforwardly about local and national issues. In truth, watching the news can be a psychologically risky pursuit, which could undermine your mental and physical health.

Fear-based news stories prey on the anxieties we all have and then hold us hostage. Being glued to the television, reading the paper or surfing the Internet increases ratings and market shares - but it also raises the probability of depression relapse. In previous decades, the journalistic mission was to report the news as it actually happened, with fairness, balance, and integrity. However, capitalistic motives associated with journalism have forced much of today's television news to look to the spectacular, the stirring, and the controversial as news stories. It's no longer a race to break the story first or get the facts right. Instead, it's to acquire good ratings in order to get advertisers, so that profits soar.

News programming uses a hierarchy if it bleeds, it leads. Fear-based news programming has two aims. The first is to grab the viewer's attention. In the news media, this is called the teaser. The second aim is to persuade the viewer that the solution for reducing the identified fear will be in the news story. If a teaser asks, "What's in your tap water that YOU need to know about?" a viewer will likely tune in to get the up-to-date information to ensure safety. The success of fear-based news relies on presenting dramatic anecdotes in place of scientific evidence, promoting isolated events as trends, depicting categories of people as dangerous and replacing optimism with fatalistic thinking. News conglomerates who want to achieve this use media logic, by tweaking the rhythm, grammar, and presentation format of news stories to elicit the greatest impact. Did you know that some news stations work with consultants who offer fear-based topics that are pre-scripted, outlined with point-of-view shots, and have experts at-the-ready? This practice is known as stunting or just-add-water reporting. Often, these practices present misleading information and promote anxiety in the viewer.


Another pattern in newscasts is that the breaking news story doesn't go beyond a surface level. The need to get-the-story-to-get-the-ratings often causes reporters to bypass thorough fact-checking. As the first story develops to a second level in later reports, the reporter corrects the inaccuracies and missing elements. As the process of fact-finding continually changes, so does the news story. What journalists first reported with intense emotion or sensationalism is no longer accurate. What occurs psychologically for the viewer is a fragmented sense of knowing what's real, which sets off feelings of hopelessness and helplessness...experiences known to worsen depression.

News media needs to return to a sense of proportion, conscience, and, most important, truth-telling. Until that happens, help inoculate yourself against feeling overwhelmed by doing the following:


  • Consider limiting your exposure to media. Give yourself a set time once or twice a day to check in on local and global happenings.

It should be noted that M. Eberhard (TM co-founder) doesn't have a TV in his home, for this very reason.


Someone posted a 1 yr old article by Broder, that seems to be fear-mongering on EVs.

This guy could be a "wolf in sheep's clothing", a well disguised sensational "hack" piece. In line with Elon Musk's criticism ("faked report"). I (& others) thought his article was sincere, but maybe not.


"The speaker will discuss why The New York Times does not always have the right spin on data."
-- Dr Melissa Franklin/Harvard, experimental particle physicist

[ Note that Elon Musk is hanging out with leading big-name physicists, incl Dr Maria Spiropulu (Caltech Physics, Harvard PhD, experimental particle physicist), who invited EM to CERN/LHC..the search for the Higgs Boson, apparently discovered in 2012

At Physics of the Universe Summit, Dreams and Worries of New Science - NYTimes.com

HEP (High Energy Physics) is an area I'm peripherally involved in ]


Here is one of the BEST comments on Science/Tech & Media-ignorance:

review of a CRACKPOT book "Fingerprints of the Gods" & accompanying Discover Channel 3 pt series (conspiracy theory that aliens are tied to ancient civilization in the Antarctic!?)

Reviewer: A reader from Cincinnati, OH November 1, 1999


Everyone who gave this book one star should realize that this book is
entertainment. Hancock is not a scientist or an academic of any kind -
he's a journalist! He raises some interesting questions and then goes on
to provide answers. Some are plausible, most are not, and none of them
have any hard evidence. Of course Hancock tailors the facts to fit his
theories - he is not constrained by truth, science, or even ethics. He
is a journalist. If you are interested in some of the real science, go
to the real sources. Read Hapgood's Map of the Ancient Sea Kings, and
Path to the Poles. Don't accept Hancock's interpretations, read the
origionals. Hapgood wasn't the greatest scholar, but he presented his
theories in a scientific way. Hancock's an entertainer, and a cap
italist. This book, and all those like it that preach pseudo-science,
appeal to the majority of people in this world who are scientifically
challenged. Most Americans don't have enough scientific knowledge to
understand the technology they face everyday

[ EV is based on a new Technology, which requires a different M.O. (modus operanda)..careful battery-management, than gas cars..half-fill tank, partial-tank, etc for long-distance trip. I get this feeling Broder treated the battery simplistically like a gas tank ]

much less untangle the
fact and fantasy in this book. It is entertainment, but it's dangerous -
science interpreted by a journalist!

I can't tell if Broder is flat-out Tech ignorant or this was a conscientious "smear" attempt for ratings

"There is nothing as dangerous as sincere Ignorance & conscientious Stupidity"
-- Martin Luther King
 
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Think about this... "Musk may have made a wonderful car, but ultimately it's humans who will drive it."

Was this just an ICE driver with little or no EV experience? "Though this first leg is not where Broder had issues with range, it does seem to suggest a heavy-footed driver with no interest in maximizing range."

Tesla's own numbers suggest a 206 mile trip between SuperChargers is not possible at 65 in "non-ideal driving conditions" and this is where I think the marketing is going wrong... IMO most ICE drivers will simply not accept a 'slow' 200 mile drive followed by a 60 to 90 minute charge and we only hurt ourselves by selling the EV "Road Trip" idea today... in the future this will be a non-issue but today we simply reinforce the stereotype that EV's are not 'real'.


tesla-claimed-range.jpg
 
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Well, I'm sure I'll get negative reputation points for this but who cares. I did not read the initial article but I did read Elon's tweets and the response posted in this thread. It was well-reasoned and calm, unlike Elon's tweets. I think Elon is a great visionary guy and I believe in his products (I've put my money where my mouth is) but he really should be muzzled in the face of any criticism. He comes off like a child throwing a tantrum. I have a 2-year-old so I've become a bit of an expert of late.

Bottom line is that Vampire load at night in the cold is a serious issue w/ Model S in its current state. I am confident they will figure out the right software bits to tweak to fix this but right now it's a real problem and that is a fact. No amount of Elon's whining can fix that - only solid engineering. The reporter lost 65 miles of range overnight w/ the car just sitting there. That is a serious amount of energy to disappear. Yes, he should have plugged in. But a person who is used to driving an ICE would not expect their range to drop while the car is turned off. Tesla should have made sure he plugged in at the overnight stop.

Tesla needs to get better at managing the press during these outings to make sure they're successful.

You should read the original article as well. It was a well written and seemingly reasonable article from the surface. The fact the car lost that much range parked (unplugged in the cold) is an issue and the only valuable piece of information in the entire article. He made it seem, as pointed out elsewhere, that he was testing the limits of the vehicle and it ran out through no fault of his own even though he never did a range charge and left the last charger with 32 miles of range in order to drive 65 miles.
 
Tesla needs to get better at managing the press during these outings to make sure they're successful.
This is critical for Tesla's future IMO

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The fact the car lost that much range parked (unplugged in the cold) is an issue
Agreed and not something you'd even consider as an ICE driver.

He made it seem, as pointed out elsewhere, that he was testing the limits of the vehicle and it ran out through no fault of his own even though he never did a range charge and left the last charger with 32 miles of range in order to drive 65 miles.
Or maybe he was seduced by Tesla's comments? "Tesla’s experts said that pumping in a little energy would help restore the power lost overnight as a result of the cold weather, and after an hour they cleared me to resume the trip to Milford."
 
After reading John Broder's response again (see OP), I feel like commenting on several paragraphs. Not everything is quoted, but everything that belongs together (in my mind), and only complete paragraphs, though occasionally in distinct parts:

I was not directed by anyone at Tesla at any time to then switch to the Max Range setting and wait to top off the battery. If I had, I might have picked up an additional 25 or so miles of range, but that would have taken as long as 30 additional minutes.

This avoids the question of whether he was explicitly asked to do a "maximum charge". He only says he wasn't instructed specifically to switch the "setting" needed for that. He does imply that he (at least now) understands that he didn't obtain a maximum charge (as Tesla says he was asked to do). If so, then the fact that it would have taken more time, is no excuse, given the actual consequences in comparison.

The very fact that he mentions the time needed, indicates that he was reluctant to follow advice if it meant charging longer. (Which was mainly what caused his problems.) It doesn't seem clear whether he knew about the "Max Range" setting, he just says he wasn't instructed to use it.


I was at that point 200 miles from the other East Coast Supercharger outlet in Milford, Conn., which I barely reached by driving 10 m.p.h. below the speed limit and turning off the battery-draining cabin-heating system.

(Mr. Musk’s logs may show I hit 75 m.p.h. for a mile or two during my trip, although it was likely before, rather than after, the Newark stop. The car’s power-usage meter clearly shows the major penalty driving at 75 inflicts on battery charge, discouraging any temptation to hooliganism in this 416-horsepower, $101,000 car. I drove more than 100 miles below 55 on cruise control to conserve power.)

This contradicts the report in his own article. There he writes that he "began following Tesla’s range-maximization guidelines" only after driving 68 miles (of that leg of the trip) and losing a range of 85 miles.


Tesla may contend that had I added the extra 25 miles of range, I would have been able to drive the speed limit (65 miles per hour) with a comfortable cabin temperature for 200 miles in 30-degree outside temperatures. Based on the rate at which the charge level was declining, I’m skeptical.

It would certainly have kept him from getting the heater turned off and reaching zero miles range. Otherwise, nothing wrong with being skeptical as such.


Mr. Musk has referred to a “long detour” on my trip. He is apparently referring to a brief stop in Manhattan on my way to Connecticut that, according to Google Maps, added precisely two miles to the overall distance traveled from the Delaware Supercharger to Milford (202 miles with the stop versus 200 miles had I taken the George Washington Bridge instead of the Lincoln Tunnel).

We'll probably better wait for Tesla's log before discussing this point.


At that point, I was already experiencing anxiety about range and had called a Tesla employee from the New Jersey Turnpike to ask how to stretch the battery. She said to shut off the cruise control to take advantage of battery regeneration from occasional braking and slowing down. Based on that advice, I was under the impression that stop-and-go driving at low speeds in the city would help, not hurt, my mileage.

This doesn't really make sense to me. It sounds more like she was telling him to use regen instead of the brakes, but as if he might not have understood it (thinking that braking causes regen), and might have used the brakes nevertheless !!! (Causing loss of range, of course.)


Before I set out from my home in suburban Washington, I informed Tesla that I intended to make a brief stop in New York and that I would spend the night in the vicinity of Milford rather than attempting to make it to Boston, which was theoretically possible with a full charge at Milford, although it was a bitterly cold night — and that clearly affects the car’s range. I added 185 miles of range at Milford, knowing that I wouldn’t need 242 or 265 miles before recharging the next morning.

So by now, he knew that cold affected the range relative to the displayed range? The distance he intended to drive (Milford - Stonington - Groton - Milford) is 141 miles (according to dpeilow and google) or 143 miles (according to me using his numbers including that in an email to dsm363). A charge of 185 miles does not have enough margin for that, in the first place. It needs a margin including for cold, in general speed, error, unforeseen circumstances, and random additional possibilities such as headwind or elevation changes. Reminder: he did not deny begin asked to obtain maximum charges, which would mean at least a full standard charge of 242 miles, in case he didn't know about the "Max Range" setting.


When I parked the car for the night at a hotel, the range meter showed 90 miles remaining, and I was about 45 miles from the Milford Supercharger. As I recounted in the article, when I awoke the next morning the indicated range was 25 miles. The rest of that story is told in the article, including a Tesla official’s counsel, which I followed, that an hour of charging at the Norwich, Conn., utility would restore much of the range lost overnight, which had disappeared because of what he called a “software glitch.”

This actually sounds different than in the article, in that it sounds like he was given the advice to charge "an hour" in advance of the charging, and that the charging itself was expected to restore the needed range. However, he started driving (according to the graphic in the article) with a rated range of 32 miles on a drive of 58 miles (google maps) or even 64 miles (his email to dsm363). I hope Tesla's upcoming blog will provide additional insight into what happened in the morning, as this sounds like a grave error.


While Tesla officials and many armchair experts have said I should have accepted the time penalty to top off the battery in Delaware at the Max Range setting, Tesla warns specifically that this shortens the battery’s life.

This sounds like a lame excuse to me, and in fact there is nothing wrong with using the "Max Range" feature once in a while. That's why it exists. It is in general used before starting the trip, not when ending up in an emergency.


Virtually everyone says that I should have plugged in the car overnight in Connecticut, particularly given the cold temperature. But the test that Tesla offered was of the Supercharger, not of the Model S, which we already know is a much-praised car. This evaluation was intended to demonstrate its practicality as a “normal use,” no-compromise car, as Tesla markets it. Now that Tesla is striving to be a mass-market automaker, it cannot realistically expect all 20,000 buyers a year (the Model S sales goal) to be electric-car acolytes who will plug in at every Walmart stop.

Whatever the original intention of the test, the author made the overnight experience the most significant part of his story. So this is another lame excuse, just as the "Walmart" comment. In any case, had he made a maximum charge at the Supercharger, it appears to me it would not even have been necessary (though surely advisable).

It appears there would have been at least three practical ways to avoid the flatbed truck (maximum charge at the Supercharger, plugging in overnight, larger Level 2 charge in the morning).


Knowing then what I know now about the car, its sensitivity to cold and additional ways to maximize range, I certainly would have treated the test differently. But the conclusion might not have been any better for Tesla.

Why not? To me it seems obvious it would have been quite positive, instead of very negative (waiting times aside, which can be used to do meaningful things such as reading the New York Times, hopefully in a warm coffee shop).


One final note. Mr. Musk called me on Friday, before the article went up on the Web, to offer sympathy and regrets about the outcome of my test drive. He said that the East Coast charging stations should be 140 miles apart, not 200 miles, to take into account the traffic and temperature extremes in this part of the country.

Everyone agrees with this, and in fact, Tesla already plans to add Superchargers to achieve this on the East Coast as well.

=======

In summary, his response only further supports the interpretation that he himself made several substantial errors, and that his difficulties were avoidable with basic knowledge of the car, even if the range loss overnight was not to be expected without former experience of a similar situation.
 
In summary, his response only further supports the interpretation that he himself made several substantial errors
While I agree the excessive phantom load while cold is a 'substantial error' today I'm not sure you can claim that's Broder's issue. Remember that when he parked the car for the night at Groton he had 90 miles range which seems perfectly reasonable for the return journey he had planned in the morning. The trip only unraveled because of the range loss overnight coupled with the decision to leave the Norwich 'emergency' charger prematurely (where he may or may not have been following Tesla's advice).
 

Possible but at a certain point, common sense comes into play regardless of what a company tells you. He already had a few hundred miles of driving experience by that point. If he didn't see 50 miles appear out of no where while driving 55 mph then he shouldn't expect it to happen. I doubt this claim anyway that a Tesla employee would tell a New York Times reporter to take off with less range than they needed to get somewhere. My guess is he called them in the morning when he was down to 20 miles or so and they told him something similar and directed him to that charger. He thought the same theory would carry on after charging for only an hour. He can't blame Tesla for running out on the side of the road. He can blame them for the loss overnight and the inconvenience of having to drive to the level 2 charger and charge for 3 hours (maybe) but he stopped after an hour and ran it to zero.
 
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@EVChels - thanks for the love from the Wired article!

Tesla vs. The New York Times: How Range Anxiety Leads to Road (Trip) Rage | Wired Opinion | Wired.com

Also, how great is it that we've come to a point where the only critique comes down to a charging error. Mistake or deliberate, the EV could have made the trip easily - I think many will spot this buried headline.

The car was not slow, uncomfortable, ugly and unreliable but faster, more comfortable and better looking than its gas contemporaries.
 
Great article Chelsa Sexton.

Chelsa: This all assumes the reporter is telling the truth of course and Tesla gave him zero instructions. I find it hard to believe they didn't at least instruct him to to range charges at the Superchargers. If he had done that, hand holding likely wouldn't even have been needed.
 
Tesla's own numbers suggest a 206 mile trip between SuperChargers is not possible at 65 in "non-ideal driving conditions" and this is where I think the marketing is going wrong... IMO most ICE drivers will simply not accept a 'slow' 200 mile drive followed by a 60 to 90 minute charge and we only hurt ourselves by selling the EV "Road Trip" idea today... in the future this will be a non-issue but today we simply reinforce the stereotype that EV's are not 'real'.
Is it any secret that EV's have range limitations? Is the general public unaware of that fact? Tesla provides the longest range EV experience possible right now, that does not mean it can do everything and anything with the existing charging network, but it does make it the most range capable EV available, which will only expand as the charging network does. What's the point of building a long range EV and a supercharging network if you don't promote those capabilities? Sure there will be episodes such as this which may turn some people off, but I'll bet a larger number of people feel more comfortable buying the S knowing it has the potential for longer range trips even if they are rarely or never taken.
 
This all assumes the reporter is telling the truth of course and Tesla gave him zero instructions.
It could also be a simple case that he misunderstood any instructions he received (if any).

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Is it any secret that EV's have range limitations? Is the general public unaware of that fact?
I doubt many people *really* understand the difference between the estimated 300 mile range and the more realistic 200. I also doubt that many people are expecting SuperCharge times of 80+ minutes for 216 miles (estimated) as experienced on this drive.

IMO we need to focus on the things that EV's do well not those things they will do well in the future.
 
Tesla simply needs to take the 300 mile number off of their website. List the EPA 265 mile number then maybe a range (most drivers can expect a 200-300 mile depending on driving style, vehicle speed and weather conditions).
 
Possible but at a certain point, common sense comes into play regardless of what a company tells you.
Sorry but I find the range prediction behaviour on the Model S odd when it's cold and imagine that a novice driver would do the same. I think anyone who witnessed a 65+ mile range drop overnight would be shocked especially when it forces you to make an unscheduled detour to charge slowly for several hours.

I don't see a conspiracy here... just a driver who got caught out because driving an EV is not the same as driving an ICE.
 
Sorry but I find the range prediction behaviour on the Model S odd when it's cold and imagine that a novice driver would do the same. I think anyone who witnessed a 65+ mile range drop overnight would be shocked especially when it forces you to make an unscheduled detour to charge slowly for several hours.

I don't see a conspiracy here... just a driver who got caught out because driving an EV is not the same as driving an ICE.

So you think that would lead most people to be more aggressive with their trip planning then? A normal person would react even more conservatively after the car lost 65 miles of range overnight, not take off like he did with less than half of the rated range he needed to get to his destination. They would tell themselves "Not sure if I trust this range estimate, better make sure I have more than enough to get there". Again, he was at a charger so there wasn't a problem. He decided to leave after only an hour. He may not have purposely intended to run out but he was looking for an exciting story and he got it with pictures of the car getting towed. Pretty simple explanation.
 
While I agree the excessive phantom load while cold is a 'substantial error' today I'm not sure you can claim that's Broder's issue. Remember that when he parked the car for the night at Groton he had 90 miles range which seems perfectly reasonable for the return journey he had planned in the morning. The trip only unraveled because of the range loss overnight coupled with the decision to leave the Norwich 'emergency' charger prematurely (where he may or may not have been following Tesla's advice).

Of course the overnight range loss is not his error. That's why I acknowledged it was not to be expected.

If he had followed Tesla's advice, he would have made at least a standard charge, enough to cover the missing distance.

As I pointed out above, in his response it now sounds as if he was advised to charge for "an hour" in order to recover the lost range, and as if this advice was given before he started the Level 2 charge. He saw that only 32 rated miles were reached after an hour, and that obviously wasn't enough.

The impression I get is that it is in general questionable that he understood the advice he was given, that he has a tendency to blame Tesla, and doesn't sufficiently understand basic terms. Therefore it is more than hard to believe that one of Tesla's product experts would have given him the advice to start a 64 mile trip with a rated range of 32 miles.

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I don't see a conspiracy here... just a driver who got caught out because driving an EV is not the same as driving an ICE.

Exactly. Except that "a driver" decided to publish this experience in the New York Times, and blame Tesla for what went wrong.
 
So you think that would lead most people to be more aggressive with their trip planning then? A normal person would react even more conservatively after the car lost 65 miles of range overnight, not take off like he did with less than half of the rated range he needed to get to his destination. They would tell themselves "Not sure if I trust this range estimate, better make sure I have more than enough to get there".
depends how much weight he gave to the Tesla advice he received (assuming it was given)... imagine yourself as an ICE driver who's just experienced a 65+ mile range drop overnight... maybe your response is to trust what you are being told on the phone and ignore the car?

I think it would be helpful to not leap to the assumption that the NYT piece about "Tesla range in cold is fake" as some people have claimed... Tesla have the logs so why not just publish them to support the assertions being made about the article? This piece was published on the 8th February (5 days ago) and I find it odd that the evidence supporting both sides has not been fully disclosed by now.

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Exactly. Except that "a driver" decided to publish this experience in the New York Times, and blame Tesla for what went wrong.
The driver published what he experienced and that's what I want to read... whether you blame the driver or Tesla depends on who you want to believe. Personally, I can see how this would happen given the demands of the trip, a novice driver, and the Model S phantom power issue.
 
The driver published what he experienced and that's what I want to read... whether you blame the driver or Tesla depends on who you want to believe. Personally, I can see how this would happen given the demands of the trip, a novice driver, and the Model S phantom power issue.

That's what you want to read as an article published in the New York Times? Really?

It's him who blames Tesla, that's what kind of everyone says, not just what I believe.
 
That's what you want to read as an article published in the New York Times? Really?
Yes, I want to read the reality of EV driving because that helps us all understand the challenges with transition. This will never happen if rely on a small niche population of EV geeks and nerds :smile:

It's him who blames Tesla, that's what kind of everyone says, not just what I believe.
Sorry but I'm not aware that everyone agrees... lots of counter arguments flying around (even if you don't see many on the tesla fan sites)... I think Chelsea makes a lot of rational arguments here;

"Tesla vs. The New York Times: How Range Anxiety Leads to Road (Trip) Rage"

Unfortunately, I have to leave for my own "Road Trip" now... fortunately, with so much reliable charging in the UK now I won't have a story to tell :wink:
 
Yes, I want to read the reality of EV driving because that helps us all understand the challenges with transition. This will never happen if rely on a small niche population of EV geeks and nerds :smile:

I guess my answer would be that in such a context I want to read something that is more representative of the bigger picture, and I don't consider this experience typical in its extreme form. That would be another surprise. ;)

Sorry but I'm not aware that everyone agrees... lots of counter arguments flying around (even if you don't see many on the tesla fan sites)... I think Chelsea makes a lot of rational arguments here;

It seems you are not actually responding to my point: That in the article, the author is blaming Tesla for his problems with the limitations of car and (current) infrastructure.

EDIT: ...Or perhaps better to understand in this form, as a first step: The author claims that his problems must be real since he followed Tesla's instructions. (Which aparently he didn't really).
 
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