NYT article: Stalled on the EV Highway

[Kevin Sharpe]

People can dispute the data all they want but sometimes facts are facts.

Agreed... but unless I'm mistaken we have only seen Tesla's review of the logs and not the NYT's review of events. Until we have both sides of the story I'm not sure we can *really* get to the facts.

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It doesn't take away the fact that Broder never did what he said he intended to do and that is a test of the Supercharger network. He did a 90% charge then a 70% charge and complained he didn't make it far enough.

I think we need to understand why he only charged to those levels... lots of people have suggested reasons and not all of those require a conspiracy.

You really think this was a fair look at the performance of the Model S?

I think it's possible that this reflects the reality with a novice driver who's being asked to drive the Model S beyond the range of the car in difficult conditions.

 

[Zas]

Broder replies ! - the saga continues

That Tesla Data: What It Says and What It Doesnt - NYTimes.com

 

[Yuri_G]

As I expected, Broder dances around the facts on speed and charge time. Then leans on Tesla by saying they instructed him to charge for only an hour in Norwich when the range indicator showed 32 miles and he had to travel 61 miles. He either lacks a substantial amount of common sense or wanted to push his agenda with a sensational story. I'd bet on the latter.

 

[dsm363]

I think it's possible that this reflects the reality with a novice driver who's being asked to drive the Model S beyond the range of the car in difficult conditions.

I could understand all of the mistakes maybe up until the last one where he knew he was in trouble and they found him a level 2 (30A) charger to keep him from getting towed. He only stayed there one hour and decided to risk it (if we are giving him the benefit of doubt) or wanted to run it into the ground if we are not.

If he did this with a gas powered car (only filled his tank 3/4 the way) and ran out on the side of the road because of bad weather and speed, no one would think anything of it other than he wasn't the brightest guy. He supposedly didn't do range chargers because he was concerned about damaging the battery but he was perfectly willing to run the car to zero instead of pulling into a gas station or parking lot when he knew he wasn't going to make it and either plug into a 110V outlet or call a tow truck then.

 

[Zas]

Broder replies ! - the saga continues

That Tesla Data: What It Says and What It Doesnt - NYTimes.com

2 things stand out as "unexplained"


• “The charge time on his second stop was 47 minutes, going from -5 miles (reserve power) to 209 miles of Ideal or 185 miles of E.P.A. Rated Range, not 58 minutes as stated in the graphic attached to his article. Had Broder not deliberately turned off the Supercharger at 47 mins and actually spent 58 mins Supercharging, it would have been virtually impossible to run out of energy for the remainder of his stated journey.”


According to my notes, I plugged into the Milford Supercharger at 5:45 p.m. and disconnected at 6:43 p.m. The range reading was 185 miles.

*** so we are to believe his notes over car data ?


• “For his first recharge, he charged the car to 90%. During the second Supercharge, despite almost running out of energy on the prior leg, he deliberately stopped charging at 72%. On the third leg, where he claimed the car ran out of energy, he stopped charging at 28%. Despite narrowly making each leg, he charged less and less each time. Why would anyone do that?”


I stopped at 72 percent because I had replenished more than enough energy for the miles I intended to drive the next day before fully recharging on my way back to New York. In Norwich, I charged for an hour on the lower-power charger, expressly on the instructions of Tesla personnel, to get enough range to reach the Supercharger station in Milford.

*** he followed his own judgment here, not Tesla's to FULLY CHARGE - this was the real reason for his problems..had he charged fully, none of this would have happened.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

He either lacks a substantial amount of common sense or wanted to push his agenda with a sensational story.

Or maybe he trusted what Tesla told him (assuming they did) and he assumed the car was wrong (just like in the morning after sitting in the cold all night).

 

[dsm363]

• “The final leg of his trip was 61 miles and yet he disconnected the charge cable when the range display stated 32 miles. He did so expressly against the advice of Tesla personnel and in obvious violation of common sense.”

The Tesla personnel whom I consulted over the phone – Ms. Ra and Mr. Merendino –told me to leave it connected for an hour, and after that the lost range would be restored. I did not ignore their advice.

from article:

They may have said an hour would let him recapture that lost range but I doubt they said he'd regain the extra 30 miles he needed to get to his last stop.

 

[DRM]

Broder's response is up:
That Tesla Data: What It Says and What It Doesnt - NYTimes.com

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

I could understand all of the mistakes maybe up until the last one where he knew he was in trouble and they found him a level 2 (30A) charger to keep him from getting towed. He only stayed there one hour and decided to risk it (if we are giving him the benefit of doubt) or wanted to run it into the ground if we are not.

he claims that he was following advice - "The Tesla personnel whom I consulted over the phone – Ms. Ra and Mr. Merendino –told me to leave it connected for an hour, and after that the lost range would be restored. I did not ignore their advice." - assuming that advice was given, is it possible the Tesla people mistakenly thought the Charging Station was higher power than it was? Or they assumed that the car's range was more than reported to the driver?

 

[Yuri_G]

Or maybe he trusted what Tesla told him (assuming they did) and he assumed the car was wrong (just like in the morning after sitting in the cold all night).

It's a win-win for Broder because he either follows Tesla's instruction and makes it or fails and gets a story. Anyone else sitting in the driver's seat would have charged the car 30 more miles to get to their destination.

 

[allanb4me]

I think we should thank Broder for his articles.
Its creating awareness of the sexy Tesla Car.
This will certainly get more converts

 

[Bardlebee]

I honestly feel like, regardless of what Broder says, Tesla wins here. I mean after Musk's article I get the feeling everyone felt Broder was in the dog house so to speak. I don't think there will be as much buzz from his rebuttal and Tesla will come out looking really good in this.

 

[AnOutsider]

Not so quick, please. This thread is all about accurate reporting of facts.
- the Milford supercharger is NOT located where BING maps places its marker.
- google has it right when marking the exact location. see screen shot below.
- the solar canopy is a petrol station.
- the super chargers are two parking slots, third row to the right when entering the rest area by car.
- the super charger parking slots have no solar canopy. Or I haven't seen any pictures of a solar canopy there.

I find it plausible that you can't locate the super charging parking slots right away when entering the Milford rest area at night, unfamiliar with the place. I give Broder the benefit of the doubt here. No details where published of where and how fast he "circled" this parking lot - it wouldn't help anyway IMHO.

View attachment 16518


No I am not defending Broder in general: I think he made a blunder of the task "test the super charger network". And Tesla blundered not to research this guy's history, then let him run a test on a not-yet-completed SC network. There is a planned SC spot in Newark, west of NYC. It would nicely halve the distance between the two existing east coast SC locations, making this trip a piece of cake for a 60kWh Model S during cold weather. To check yourself using daxzeal's fantastic map
- open link below
Tesla Supercharge Map estimator
- uncheck "All" locations
- check "known"
- check "NY, New York"
- zoom in to NYC

As an aside, is that known or estimated? Has tesla said one was coming to newark?

 

[JohnQ]

I honestly feel like, regardless of what Broder says, Tesla wins here. I mean after Musk's article I get the feeling everyone felt Broder was in the dog house so to speak. I don't think there will be as much buzz from his rebuttal and Tesla will come out looking really good in this.

I agree that Tesla wins but for different reasons. At this point it doesn't really matter who did what. Tesla has taken a bad review and turned it into a discussion of the review process and successfully brought other journalists on board to complete the journey that Broder failed to complete: DC to Boston. That is what everyone will be talking about at the end of the day (or week) and it will prove the usefulness of the supercharger network. Plus educate a whole bunch of people. You can't buy publicity like this.

 

[Zas]

Broder also doesn't explain the " I was driving at 45 MPH ".... Instead he blames it on the tires ?

"I cannot account for the discrepancy, nor for a later stretch in Connecticut where I recall driving about 45 m.p.h., but it may be the result of the car being delivered with 19-inch wheels and all-season tires, not the specified 21-inch wheels and summer tires. That just might have impacted the recorded speed, range, rate of battery depletion or any number of other parameters"

 

[dsm363]

It's a win-win for Broder because he either follows Tesla's instruction and makes it or fails and gets a story. Anyone else sitting in the driver's seat would have charged the car 30 more miles to get to their destination.

Exactly. He must be the kind of person that would follow his Nav directions right through a barricade because it wasn't on the device that the road was blocked too.

 

[jomo25]

Broder also doesn't explain the " I was driving at 45 MPH ".... Instead he blames it on the tires ?

"I cannot account for the discrepancy, nor for a later stretch in Connecticut where I recall driving about 45 m.p.h., but it may be the result of the car being delivered with 19-inch wheels and all-season tires, not the specified 21-inch wheels and summer tires. That just might have impacted the recorded speed, range, rate of battery depletion or any number of other parameters"

Wouldn't having smaller tires make the actual speed LOWER than indicated speed if the speedometer was still calibrated for the larger tires?

Btw, I don't buy it anyways.

 

[cycledrum]

In Broder's original article, he said

" After making arrangements to recharge at the Norwich station, I located the proper adapter in the trunk, plugged in and walked to the only warm place nearby, Butch’s Luncheonette and Breakfast Club, an establishment (smoking allowed) where only members can buy a cup of coffee or a plate of eggs. But the owners let me wait there while the Model S drank its juice. Tesla’s experts said that pumping in a little energy would help restore the power lost overnight as a result of the cold weather, and after an hour they cleared me to resume the trip to Milford."

Elon Musk said:
"The final leg of his trip was 61 miles and yet he disconnected the charge cable when the range display stated 32 miles. He did so expressly against the advice of Tesla personnel and in obvious violation of common sense.

Broder clearly claims he was in contact with Tesla 'after an hour' charging in Norwich. What exactly was said back and forth?

If Tesla has some phone or written log with Broder acknowledging Tesla's advice, then ignoring it, then lying about it, there should be some consequences.

 

[GOLD.s]

John Broder's response to Elon Musk and the data that was released

That Tesla Data: What It Says and What It Doesnt - NYTimes.com

i think his response is full of lies. What happened to his freezing knuckles? Now he says he used the heater to help increase range as well. He is supposed to be in charge of energy related themes if I'm not mistaken, but doesn't understand that using the heater would drain the battery. In another article he said, he thought his drive through Manhattan would help add range. In what world does driving any car through the the city add range?

Please excuse the grammar I'm typing on my phone and just really wanted to get his response up.

 

[dpeilow]

I was given battery-conservation advice at that time (turn off the cruise control; alternately slow down and speed up to take advantage of regenerative braking) that was later contradicted by other Tesla personnel.

Hmm...