Ohio Proposed EV Ownership Fee

[HustleSimmons]

It's time to take action as Ohio Proposes Annual EV Fee!

Clean Fuels Ohio is currently hearing that the House intends to propose a $200 annual fee on EVs and a $100 annual fee on plug-in hybrids as part of the state transportation budget. Both are well outside the national norm and would severely damage this new and growing market. For reference, please see the image of a map of the current landscape of registration fees by state.

The House is planning to vote on the transportation budget next week, so we only have a few days to make a difference.

You can help by contacting your representative.

This link is for a letter that you can send instantly: Proposed Ohio EV Ownership Fee - Action Network

This link is for the website to look up your representative's contact information:
The Ohio House of Representatives

 

[5_+JqckQttqck]

lobbyists lol

 

[Knightshade]

FWIW they charge a $130 annual fee on EVs here in NC, in lieu of the fact we don't pay gas taxes for road costs.

$130 (or even the $200 in Ohio) is still massively less money than one typically would spend on state gas tax in a year- so I'm not really understanding how this is a problem, or how "You do pay a road use tax, but it's WAY LESS than you do in an ICE vehicle" would "severely damage" the EV market.

Roads cost money. Billing the things that use them makes a lot of sense.

 

[lookmtb]

@Knightshade I agree with your position however, I've always believed 18 wheelers and dump trucks are the vehicles that should bare the weight of this more so than a sedan owner. I would like to see a tax structure based on vehicle weight and or mileage(since that is usually the factor in premature road wear).

 

[Knightshade]

@Knightshade I agree with your position however, I've always believed 18 wheelers and dump trucks are the vehicles that should bare the weight of this more so than a sedan owner. I would like to see a tax structure based on vehicle weight and or mileage(since that is usually the factor in premature road wear).

They already do that (in NC at least).

Here there's 2 ways you are taxed for using the roads.

There's an annual road use tax- for a regular car it's 3% of the current value... for heavy commercial vehicles it's $2000 (which is more than double what the average new car would pay, and a lot higher than what most used cars pay).

Then as a "mileage" tax you pay per gallon of fuel for ICE vehicles.... EVs don't pay this tax at all- instead paying a $130 EV tax (which again is many times lower than what he typical ICE car will pay in state gas taxes for the year.


(technically there's a 3rd way you're taxed for use of roads- tolls... but there's only 2 toll roads in the whole state and they're not hard to avoid if you wish to)

 

[SR22pilot]

Then as a "mileage" tax you pay per gallon of fuel for ICE vehicles.... EVs don't pay this tax at all- instead paying a $130 EV tax (which again is many times lower than what he typical ICE car will pay in state gas taxes for the year.


(technically there's a 3rd way you're taxed for use of roads- tolls... but there's only 2 toll roads in the whole state and they're not hard to avoid if you wish to)

Careful. In Georgia I pay $213 each year because I drive an EV. I calculated the gas tax I paid prior to getting my EV. It was about $98. So, in return for helping the environment, my tax doubled.

 

[brkaus]

Texas is proposing the exact same numbers. I have no issue w/ a road tax, but I do have an issue with the price.

Math based on national averages (MPG, usage) shows $98 might be reasonable. But the national MPG average includes hybrids. So that brings the average up. They should be calculated separately as they'll are also hit with a fee.

BTW, the problem with tracking mileage is it doesn't (easily) account for in-state or out-of-state use.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

FWIW they charge a $130 annual fee on EVs here in NC, in lieu of the fact we don't pay gas taxes for road costs.

$130 (or even the $200 in Ohio) is still massively less money than one typically would spend on state gas tax in a year- so I'm not really understanding how this is a problem, or how "You do pay a road use tax, but it's WAY LESS than you do in an ICE vehicle" would "severely damage" the EV market.

Roads cost money. Billing the things that use them makes a lot of sense.

Total fuel taxes in NC are $0.5375/gal.
$130 is equivalent to 241.86 gallons per year.

I drive one of my cars 8,000 miles per year. Equivalent to 33.08mpg.

You might be happy with 33mpg, but I've never bought a car with fuel economy that bad.

We drive our other car about 12,000 miles per year. Equivalent to 49.61mpg. Not bad, but we could beat that with a Prius in North Carolina. I get 50mpg in cold state.

Ohio's economics are even more screwed up because fuel taxes are lower and they're proposing a higher fee.

The _system_ is _broken_, it needs to be fixed.
There needs to be:
- a fixed fee for _all_ drivers
- OR a variable fee for _all_ drivers
- OR both
- OR it's a common good and it should go under general taxation.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Texas is proposing the exact same numbers. I have no issue w/ a road tax, but I do have an issue with the price.

Math based on national averages (MPG, usage) shows $98 might be reasonable. But the national MPG average includes hybrids. So that brings the average up. They should be calculated separately as they'll are also hit with a fee.

BTW, the problem with tracking mileage is it doesn't (easily) account for in-state or out-of-state use.

Neither do fuel taxes for cross-border commuters, such as those NH-MA, OR-WA or ON-NY.

Your title and registration have odometer readings and VIN. You would need _no_ other data for a basic mileage-based fee. And if mileage-based fees are inappropriate then the fuel tax _really_ sucks.

 

[Knightshade]

Careful. In Georgia I pay $213 each year because I drive an EV. I calculated the gas tax I paid prior to getting my EV. It was about $98. So, in return for helping the environment, my tax doubled.

GA is almost 10 cents a gallon cheaper state fuel tax than NC FYI.

Still, you're paying 27.5 cents per gallon there.

To be $98 you'd only be buying 356.36 gallons a year.

At national average of 24 mpg that only gets you 8552 miles.... a lot lower than the average amount of driving done in a year.



Anyway, to my point, here in NC our state fuel tax is 36.2 cents per gallon of gasoline.

An average driver (13,476 miles a year) getting average mileage (24 mpg) would pay $203.26 in state fuel taxes a year.

Versus the $130 EV tax.

So it's almost double to drive a gas car, tax-wise, in NC.

Certainly if a state is charing a lot more for EVs than a typical driver would pay in gas taxes that fee should be adjusted to be a lot nearer average- but the opposite is the case in my state at least- the EV tax is much lower.

And the Ohio one sounds the same from the #s posted so far.

 

[Knightshade]

Total fuel taxes in NC are $0.5375/gal.
$130 is equivalent to 241.86 gallons per year.

I drive one of my cars 8,000 miles per year. Equivalent to 33.08mpg.

You might be happy with 33mpg, but I've never bought a car with fuel economy that bad.

The national average is less than 25 mpg.

T
We drive our other car about 12,000 miles per year. Equivalent to 49.61mpg. Not bad, but we could beat that with a Prius in North Carolina. I get 50mpg in cold state.

Sure, but then you'd be driving a Prius. Which is a pretty crap experience compared to driving a Tesla (having spent a decent amount of time both riding in, and driving, both).

The _system_ is _broken_, it needs to be fixed.
There needs to be:
- a fixed fee for _all_ drivers
- OR a variable fee for _all_ drivers
- OR both
- OR it's a common good and it should go under general taxation.

Currently (and for decades) most states paid for roads 2 ways (at the state level, 3 ways if you count federal money which is a whole other topic).


1) Road use/registration fees. Everyone paid them regardless of driving 5,000 miles a year or 50,000 miles a year. Sometimes it's a flat fee, sometimes it's based on vehicle value (which seems weird but many states do it. This still works fine for EVs or other alternative fuel vehicles other than the weirdness of connecting car value to road costs which exists for all cars.

2) Fuel taxes- this captured the "per mile" usage by charging X per gallon of fuel type. EV owners avoid this tax entirely. Therefore they have to have an EV fee to replace it.



You could certainly toss out the whole system and start from scratch... but that's not really a thing governments tend to do often, or well.

And when it involves changes to taxation for a large # of people it's even harder to actually make happen.

 

[SigNC]

FWIW they charge a $130 annual fee on EVs here in NC, in lieu of the fact we don't pay gas taxes for road costs.

$130 (or even the $200 in Ohio) is still massively less money than one typically would spend on state gas tax in a year- so I'm not really understanding how this is a problem, or how "You do pay a road use tax, but it's WAY LESS than you do in an ICE vehicle" would "severely damage" the EV market.

Roads cost money. Billing the things that use them makes a lot of sense.

Massively less is a little misleading. NC tax on a gallon of gas is 35.35 cents. That works out to tax on 367.75 gallons of gas. If you had a car that gets 30mpg that works out to 11k miles.

However, inspection on a EV is less than a regular and significantly less than a truck so you do get some of that back if you factor that in making it less. I'd prefer not to pay but I think $100 seems fair especially when you consider it's large trucks that do most of the damage to roads, not passenger vehicles.

 

[Knightshade]

Massively less is a little misleading. NC tax on a gallon of gas is 35.35 cents. That works out to tax on 367.75 gallons of gas. If you had a car that gets 30mpg that works out to 11k miles.

However, inspection on a EV is less than a regular and significantly less than a truck so you do get some of that back if you factor that in making it less. I'd prefer not to pay but I think $100 seems fair especially when you consider it's large trucks that do most of the damage to roads, not passenger vehicles.

Well, I already showed the math- it's $130 for an EV, versus $203.26 for state gas taxes for an average drivers miles getting average mileage.

But I left out federal gas taxes- which I probably should not have, since part of NCs roads are paid for with FEDERAL highway funds that are funded by federal gas tax.

Running THAT math you'd pay, average miles and mileage, $301.81 a year in fuel taxes.

Versus $130.

That's a pretty massive difference, well over 2x as much in an ICE car.

Add the inspection savings on top too as you mention and compared to say a truck it's nearer 3x cheaper for the EV.

 

[CNC1]

there is 100.00 fee here in WI
I agree with it, why somebody has to pay for roads for you?

 

[devilmountain]

California implemented a 100 dollar a year tax for EVs; starts in 2020. This is paid with our newly increased registration fees. This is a road tax and I believe all cars need to pay for using the road. While I cannot stand increased taxes I am okay with this one. California roads are terrible but slowly improving.

 

[Mikeat00]

Michigan is 135 and our roads are trash

 

[chinnam3]

The national average is less than 25 mpg.




Sure, but then you'd be driving a Prius. Which is a pretty crap experience compared to driving a Tesla (having spent a decent amount of time both riding in, and driving, both).





Currently (and for decades) most states paid for roads 2 ways (at the state level, 3 ways if you count federal money which is a whole other topic).


1) Road use/registration fees. Everyone paid them regardless of driving 5,000 miles a year or 50,000 miles a year. Sometimes it's a flat fee, sometimes it's based on vehicle value (which seems weird but many states do it. This still works fine for EVs or other alternative fuel vehicles other than the weirdness of connecting car value to road costs which exists for all cars.

2) Fuel taxes- this captured the "per mile" usage by charging X per gallon of fuel type. EV owners avoid this tax entirely. Therefore they have to have an EV fee to replace it.



You could certainly toss out the whole system and start from scratch... but that's not really a thing governments tend to do often, or well.

And when it involves changes to taxation for a large # of people it's even harder to actually make happen.

Tax model should encourage fuel efficiency, not other way around. Also how car experience is, has nothing to do with Tax structure.

Ideally, it should be based on
Road use(Mileage),
weight,
no of wheels,
size (accounting for space used) and
how much pollution it adds to environment(fuel economy).

Ofcourse it is not easy to account for all these, and privacy concerns is another thing about mileage.

 

[Knightshade]

Tax model should encourage fuel efficiency, not other way around.

it does.

The more miles you drive in an ICE, especially a less efficient one, the more you pay in fuel taxes.

And EVs pay significantly less than the average ICE vehicle.

(in NC at least).

Ideally, it should be based on
Road use(Mileage),
weight,
no of wheels,
size (accounting for space used) and
how much pollution it adds to environment(fuel economy).

Ofcourse it is not easy to account for all these, and privacy concerns is another thing about mileage.

Right- hence we have the current system that proxies for mileage with a fuel tax- which doesn't cover EVs at all- hence a separate EV tax is needed to stand in for that.


I think pegging that amount to "average MPG of the US fleet" and "average # of miles driven by a car in the US" and then reducing it by some percentage to "reward" not polluting would be a decent approach.

And you'd probably end up with a number somewhat like some states already have- where an EV drivers tax is significantly less than it would be if they drove an average ICE car an average # of miles.

 

[Trips]

This is up in Nebraska also where they want to increase the fee from the current $75 to $150/year. You have to compare the 126 MPGe of a Tesla to the same ICE car. Based on Nebraska ~$.30/gallon tax that same car would pay ~$25/year.

Without getting environmental the only fair way would be to tax based on miles driven. A Prius is currently paying 10x less per mile in tax then an old truck or sports car.

This all comes down to an easy money grab.

 

[chinnam3]

You have to compare the 126 MPGe of a Tesla to the same ICE car. Based on Nebraska ~$.30/gallon tax that same car would pay ~$25/year.

Without getting environmental the only fair way would be to tax based on miles driven. A Prius is currently paying 10x less per mile in tax then an old truck or sports car.

This all comes down to an easy money grab.

Exactly, that is my point too. The efficiency of Tesla/EV is substantially higher. Hence the tax they add on EV should be proportionate to that.
Take for example, Prius gets 50MPG, and a Tahoe that gets 12-14MPG. Tahoe ends ups paying lot more tax as of today because of less efficiency. Almost 4 times more.

To compare apples to apples in the current model, most EVs, MPGe being in 100+, So tax should be less than half of Prius, not like of Tahoe. Lets say for 12k miles EV consumes 100 gallons worth gas, it should be equivalent to tax collected on 100 Gallons. So if they go with flat EV Tax, it should be $35 or $40.

But again, in the long run it may not compensate for infrastructure upkeep costs. They have to come up with proper model that would account for all variables. Until such time EV flat fee should reflect the mpg based tax model they are following for every non pure EV vehicle.