Ohmman's Airstream Adventures

[steilkurve]

First, congratulations on your first trip. I'm happy to hear you enjoyed it. It really is a great time, isn't it?

I believe I posted upthread the modification I did to our dinette. Our kids are younger than yours (9 and 12) but the board I cut extends the dinette to a full-sized bed.

It is indeed a great time. We stopped camping (tent) after the kids were born and focused on fun in the sun vacays and overseas trips. This getaway reminded us of all we loved about camping: nature, camp fires, good casuals eats, etc. And of course, the Airstream makes it all a tad more civilized.

And yes, you have written about your extension. I do think that’s an interesting option to consider. In fact, putting those cushions away under the bed Is probably as much work every night as just taking out the extension and putting the cushions on it.

On another note, I removed the bosal receiver this
afternoon. It’s in pristine condition, even though as a newbie I probably didn’t balance my rig properly. Kind of impressive engineering that all that weight is hanging on just that. I’ll upload a video of it shortly.

 

[steilkurve]

On another note, I removed the bosal receiver this afternoon. It’s in pristine condition, even though as a newbie I probably didn’t balance my rig properly. Kind of impressive engineering that all that weight is hanging on just that. I’ll upload a video of it shortly.

As promised. Video of my Bosal receiver after towing the 22’ Airstream Sport. Came out easily. Pretty much looks like new.

 

[steilkurve]

As promised. Video of my Bosal receiver after towing the 22’ Airstream Sport. Came out easily. Pretty much looks like new.

Sorry. Had to repost my video. New link below.

 

[Evoforce]

Just wanted to inform those of you that tow of another thread that may impact your trip. Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software.

 

[steilkurve]

First, congratulations on your first trip. I'm happy to hear you enjoyed it. It really is a great time, isn't it?

I believe I posted upthread the modification I did to our dinette. Our kids are younger than yours (9 and 12) but the board I cut extends the dinette to a full-sized bed. I use the existing extra cushions to make the bed, and put a full sized mattress topper over it. All of that gets moved to our bed in the morning. I used to have screw-in legs, but this last trip I moved to using two aluminum folding tables that are 12" tall. They're useful for a number of other things at camp, and they're the perfect height to hold the extension in place securely. The full sized bed, along with separate bedding for each of the kids makes it pretty effective for 4. Just a thought.

So we are pretty set on the Sport 22’. Found one new and are about to pull the trigger. Two more questions for you if I may:

-Dealer is proposing GoPower solar panels, 100 or 200 watts. Thoughts on brand and wattage based on your experience?
-Dealer is also recommending electronic sway control given I’ll be using the Bosal and therefore no sway bar or WD. Thoughts on that? I guess it can’t hurt.

 

[idoco]

So we are pretty set on the Sport 22’. Found one new and are about to pull the trigger. Two more questions for you if I may:

-Dealer is proposing GoPower solar panels, 100 or 200 watts. Thoughts on brand and wattage based on your experience?
-Dealer is also recommending electronic sway control given I’ll be using the Bosal and therefore no sway bar or WD. Thoughts on that? I guess it can’t hurt.

I can't comment on the Airstream part. But I'm typing this from the middle of Newfoundland, boondocking in our trailer, while the wife has the blender running off of the battery and inverter. So I feel qualified to comment

I wouldn't get solar unless you plan on boondocking for long periods of time with no access to power. Most of the time you will be at campgrounds with electrical service and the trailer plugged in.

On occasion we do go off grid. Sometimes because we have to prioritize a single electrical hookup for charging the car. Sometimes because there is no electric service at all. We have gone up to fives days off grid and only gotten down to 50% at the very end.

Even if you are boondocking don't forget you have a 100kWh battery to charge your trailer battery. The trailer battery is probably about 1kWh capacity full, a fraction of your Tesla battery capacity. As long as the DC/DC converter in the MX kicks in appropriately you can use the MX as a mobile power source for charging the trailer battery via the 7-pin connector.

On that last point, we had the trailer off grid for a couple days. At the end of those two days I went to check on the trailer battery status and it was 99 plus percent. I couldn't understand how we used almost no electricity in two days. The fridge alone for two days should have dropped it by 5-10%. Then I realized I had forgotten to unplug the 7-pin connector from the MX. The trailer had been powered and charging off of the MX for those two days. On the MX side any loss over those two days was well within normal phantom loss for a two day period.

Regarding sway control...the MX trailer mode has built in sway control per the owner's manual and Tesla (Model X Tow Package).

"Tow Mode actively monitors trailers sway and adjusts wheel braking and speed."

My experience with ~10k miles of trailer towing is that the built in sway control is more than adequate. But my trailer is about 60% of the weight of the Sport 22.

 

[steilkurve]

”I wouldn't get solar unless you plan on boondocking for long periods of time with no access to power. Most of the time you will be at campgrounds with electrical service.”

“My experience with ~10k miles of trailer towing is that the built in sway control is more than adequate. But my trailer is about 60% of the weight of the Sport 22.”

Thanks for the detailed answer. This is quite helpful.

On solar, I thought it could be helpful given I won’t keep the AS at home in between trips. It’ll be parked at a place without electrical hookup. In that situation, isn’t solar helpful to keep the battery topped up?

On sway, you are correct. I did rent a similar trailer and found it to handle quite well with the built in control. Additional electronic sway control would be for safety as these systems kick in typically only in extreme situations. But maybe that’s overkill.

 

[ohmman]

Thanks for the detailed answer. This is quite helpful.

On solar, I thought it could be helpful given I won’t keep the AS at home in between trips. It’ll be parked at a place without electrical hookup. In that situation, isn’t solar helpful to keep the battery topped up?

On sway, you are correct. I did rent a similar trailer and found it to handle quite well with the built in control. Additional electronic sway control would be for safety as these systems kick in typically only in extreme situations. But maybe that’s overkill.

I like solar for the reason you mentioned above - even though I park it at home in our parking area, there's no local power supply and the solar does an excellent job keeping the batteries topped up.

I have to respectfully disagree with @idoco regarding comfortably using the car to charge the camper. The power from the 7-pin is at best 12-gauge wiring. It is considered quite inadequate for charging the camper in any reasonable way, though it will do so to some degree. It is also quite lossy en route to the camper. I looked into hacking the DC-DC converter in the car and using higher gauge wiring from the frunk of the X to the camper but decided against making draws from my tow vehicle.

I prefer camping without hookups wherever possible. We like boondocking in the woods and camping in National Forest and National Park campgrounds, most of which do not have hookups. So I installed lithium batteries and put solar on the roof. The solar panels I used are two Renogy brand 100W flexible panels, purchased from Amazon. I installed them myself using 3M VHB tape, running the wiring to the roof mount box, and picking up the run under the master bed where it terminates. I mounted the solar controller under there with a remote display in the bathroom near my tank monitor. These two panels do a good job keeping up with demand on our trips, and I have a folding Zamp 160W solar suitcase that can be added to the system and placed in the sun if needed. We did not need it at all on our last trip.

Good luck with the purchase and moving forward!

 

[idoco]

On solar, I thought it could be helpful given I won’t keep the AS at home in between trips. It’ll be parked at a place without electrical hookup. In that situation, isn’t solar helpful to keep the battery topped up?

Since we have an electrical hookup when the trailer is stored I didn't think about that situation. In that case you could just get a solar battery tender/trickle charger. Less than $100 on Amazon.

 

[steilkurve]

I like solar for the reason you mentioned above - even though I park it at home in our parking area, there's no local power supply and the solar does an excellent job keeping the batteries topped up.

I have to respectfully disagree with @idoco regarding comfortably using the car to charge the camper. The power from the 7-pin is at best 12-gauge wiring. It is considered quite inadequate for charging the camper in any reasonable way, though it will do so to some degree. It is also quite lossy en route to the camper. I looked into hacking the DC-DC converter in the car and using higher gauge wiring from the frunk of the X to the camper but decided against making draws from my tow vehicle.

I prefer camping without hookups wherever possible. We like boondocking in the woods and camping in National Forest and National Park campgrounds, most of which do not have hookups. So I installed lithium batteries and put solar on the roof. The solar panels I used are two Renogy brand 100W flexible panels, purchased from Amazon. I installed them myself using 3M VHB tape, running the wiring to the roof mount box, and picking up the run under the master bed where it terminates. I mounted the solar controller under there with a remote display in the bathroom near my tank monitor. These two panels do a good job keeping up with demand on our trips, and I have a folding Zamp 160W solar suitcase that can be added to the system and placed in the sun if needed. We did not need it at all on our last trip.

Good luck with the purchase and moving forward!

Thanks @ohmman. Will add the panels. Did you have any thoughts on the additional electronic sway control?

 

[idoco]

have to respectfully disagree with @idoco regarding comfortably using the car to charge the camper.

You can disrespectfully disagree with me too if you want. I won't take it personally Plus it would give me the opportunity to make the wall of shame, a.k.a. the snippiness thread

Now I'd like to respectfully disagree with your respectful disagreement.....and agree with part of it....

The power from the 7-pin is at best 12-gauge wiring. It is considered quite inadequate for charging the camper in any reasonable way, though it will do so to some degree...

In my experience when boondocking with the Bowlus we use from 10AH to 30AH per day, with 20AH being about typical. The Bowlus is configured for low energy use (LED lights, energy efficient fridge, etc) and has a 210AH battery (C/20). I don't know how those numbers compare to the Airstream.

For discussion purposes let's say the 7-way is capable of 10A. This is based on 12AWG@12VDC for which the max capacity is 12A. IIRC the fuse is 15A for a 7-pin.

I think we can break the 7-pin capabilities into a few categories:

Travel mode
Keeping the battery at 100% when load is light (0.5AH - 1AH). This is basically the energy requirement to keep the fridge, propane monitor, gauges, etc. powered while traveling. Since we always arrive with 100% SOC the load that the trailer is consuming while traveling is being replenished.

Camping mode
Keeping the battery at 100% when load is medium (2AH-5AH). Based on the back of the napkin calculations (12A capability for 7-pin, 20AH daily usage by trailer) I think the 7-pin is ok. Also my accidental two day charging, as mentioned in my other response, seems to support that.

Charging mode
Charging the battery from a discharged state (50%) to a full state (100%). Here's where I agree with you that the MX alone might not be up to snuff. But my reasoning is a little different. It's not based on the wiring. It's based on the max output of the DC/DC converter and the low capacity, non-deep cycle accessory battery. I think charging the trailer battery from a discharged state puts too much stress on the MX 12V system.

Here's a good discussion of the 12V battery charging in a Model S.
Syonyk's Project Blog: Tesla Model S 12V Battery Analysis

Getting back to the original question...if boondocking a lot then solar sounds great. If only occasional boondocking with light to medium energy requirements then you might be able to get away with the 7-pin connector. If only for keeping the battery trickle charged in storage then a solar battery trickle charger might be easier. And if never boondocking don't worry about it.

P.S. I'm now on shore power with A/C running...somewhere outside Gander NL. On the road for 10 weeks now. 2 more to go...

P.P.S. I have 10kW solar on my house with ~40kWH of lead acid battery storage. So not anti-solar. Just pro keep it simple and pack light when traveling in a camper

 

[ohmman]

You can disrespectfully disagree with me too if you want. I won't take it personally Plus it would give me the opportunity to make the wall of shame, a.k.a. the snippiness thread

I've got too much respect for you to do so.

Getting back to the original question...if boondocking a lot then solar sounds great. If only occasional boondocking with light to medium energy requirements then you might be able to get away with the 7-pin connector. If only for keeping the battery trickle charged in storage then a solar battery trickle charger might be easier. And if never boondocking don't worry about it.

This is an excellent summary, and one with which I cannot disagree, respectfully or disrespectfully. @steilkurve will have to decide what their personal needs are.

Did you have any thoughts on the additional electronic sway control?

Unfortunately, I don't. I will say that @mengwong towed his 22' Sport without sway control (mechanical or electronic) and reported satisfactory results. I have mechanical sway control based on my own research for traditional tow vehicle:camper weight and length ratios. It may be unnecessary, but there's no way to tell without peeking into a parallel universe where I took the exact same trips without my current hitch setup. I'm sure either way you will have success.

 

[Pegase]

Ohman, I am also pulling a trailer, an old & nice 1979 Thomson Claymore, 1980 lbs. gross weight. I found awkward having to detach the trailer to recharge at the fast charger stations. Any recommendation her? Is there an extension of some sort available or a way to have a front or funk port installed?


Regards.


Pégase.

Today, after long last, my excruciatingly boring posts about potential Model X trailer dynamics are over. At this point, I will begin with a different variety of snoozers - data-driven Model X trailer dynamics posts from my own experience.

I drove over to Fairfield, CA this morning to pick up our Airstream 22' Sport. Please excuse the fact that the photos look identical to @JimVandegriff's awesome rig, but you can't help good taste. Delivery went relatively well. The fit and finish issues on the Airstream are worse than they are with Tesla. And Airstream has a very good reputation in the RV world.. so deduce from that what you will. In general, the coach looks great, though. We got our Equalizer weight distribution hitch installed without much issue, and after a walk-through, I was on my way.

The first data pieces - my drive to Fairfield was over hilly terrain in very gusty conditions. I didn't bother with curbing my speed and probably averaged 65mph while reaching as high as 75mph. 30.7 miles, 307Wh/mi. I didn't fudge those numbers to make them a multiple of ten. Also, those numbers clearly represent a tailwind based on my average consumption. That means headed home, I was trailering into a headwind. On that journey, I averaged about 55mph, with a max of about 62mph, and along the way I consumed 582Wh/mi. Generally speaking, that's just about what I expected since @JimVandegriff has consistently reported around 575Wh/mi at 55mph.

It was my first time towing anything, other than behind my compact tractor, and while it definitely felt different, it was comfortable. I set my brake controller at a very low level so that I could recapture as much regen as possible. I was really astounded by how much the regen could slow down the trailer/Model X combo without trailer brakes engaging. This is an area for definite attention, as I think it has some potential for extending stop-and-go range.

The X could accelerate without issue. I'm not surprised. I generally tried to drive like there was an egg on the pedal, but a few times I wanted to see how quickly I could get up to merge speed. It's absolutely not a problem - on the Model X, range is constraint when hauling an appropriately sized travel trailer.

There is more to come. I am intending to post to this thread when we have outings in the camper, and supply consumption numbers ad nauseum. Until then, here are some photos from today.
View attachment 208243 View attachment 208244 View attachment 208245 View attachment 208246 View attachment 208248

 

[ecarfan]

Dealer is proposing GoPower solar panels, 100 or 200 watts. Thoughts on brand and wattage based on your experience?

As others have noted, you need to evaluate your expected average daily power draw (which you can’t know for sure yet but advice given upthread is very helpful) and battery capacity.

My goal is to burn as little propane as possible. I have an electric fridge and a portable electric induction cooktop. The coffee requirements of my spouse and I in the morning are formidable. And like @ohmman, I prefer campsites without hookups. You can read about my trailer’s 1035W solar and 600Ah LiFePO battery system here https://electrictravels.blog/2018/09/09/camping-100-electric-no-propane/

Dealer is also recommending electronic sway control

Since my 17 ft trailer weighs around 2,300 lbs fully loaded, and my X fully loaded weights over 5,500 lbs, I do not use any sway control devices, so can’t advise you on that topic, sorry. My rig is pretty stable.

 

[ecarfan]

Is there an extension of some sort available or a way to have a front or funk port installed?

It is not possible to use any kind of extension cable at a Tesla Supercharger. I have not heard of anyone modifying their Tesla to have charging port in the front of the car. Almost anything can be done, with enough money, but I think that is not a modification that is within the realm of possibility.

I can unhitch my trailer in about a minute and hitch up in about two minutes. It is an inconvenience that those of us towing with an EV just have to put up with (except for the small fraction of Supercharger stalls where it is possible to charge without unhitching or blocking others). This photo was taken at the Kettleman City CA Supercharger. I’m not parked in the stall space, but I’m not blocking anyone either.

 

[jimbo69ny]

Great thread! Wow! I build range extending trailers that I call T-Rex. Previously I have owned Toyota Rav4 EVs and pulled them with that car. I just ordered a brand new Raven Model X and I plan on pulling my T-Rex Trailers with my new X. If you are curious you can check out my youtube channel youtube.com/jamesklafehn

 

[steilkurve]

Unfortunately, I don't. I will say that @mengwong towed his 22' Sport without sway control (mechanical or electronic) and reported satisfactory results. I have mechanical sway control based on my own research for traditional tow vehicle:camper weight and length ratios. It may be unnecessary, but there's no way to tell without peeking into a parallel universe where I took the exact same trips without my current hitch setup. I'm sure either way you will have success.

Thanks. As posted somewhere up thread, I did tow myself a rented Sport 22 with the Bosal hitch and nothing else. I actually found the whole setup to be more stable than I thought it would be. However, I’m intrigued by this option. Maybe it could be a fail safe should I get into a more uncontrollable sway situation, especially since I won’t have any physical set up to diminish it.

On solar, I’m not sure I’ll do a lot of boondocking but I’d rather be ready if I do. And I still like the simplicity of the panels to keep the trailer topped up when stored and limiting propane use for fridge use when traveling.

 

[ecarfan]

Great thread! Wow! I build range extending trailers that I call T-Rex. Previously I have owned Toyota Rav4 EVs and pulled them with that car. I just ordered a brand new Raven Model X and I plan on pulling my T-Rex Trailers with my new X. If you are curious you can check out my youtube channel youtube.com/jamesklafehn

I’m curious about your trailer, could you please start a separate thread and post photos and a description of how they are “range extending”? Thank you.

 

[bob_p]

For an Airstream - if unhitching is needed to use a supercharger - how long does it take to unhitch and re-hitch?

 

[steilkurve]

For an Airstream - if unhitching is needed to use a supercharger - how long does it take to unhitch and re-hitch?

Not a pro (yet) but unhitching for me was pretty fast when I did it. I’d say like 3 minutes. Hitching was a bit longer as the newbie I am may have spent a bit time aligning the trailer hitch to the ball. ;-) But that surely gets better with experience. Keep in mind I was not using sway or WD mechanisms which clearly speeds things up.