Ok, who was this on HWY 880

[rEVhappy]

he just had to get ahead of the MC, because he was pissed that he had to wait his turn while the MC driver just coasted down the middle, used his green light, and didn't even stop. If the other car didn't cut in front of him, he would have accelerated enough to try to prevent the MC driver to merge, on purpose.

And this clearly shows the flaw in this type of logic. The road is not where you do things based on your feelings. You're not entitled to the road more than anyone else because 'I just had to get ahead of the MC, because I'm pissed' is not a good reason to drive recklessly.

Cars cut in front of me on the regular, I never think.. if only this car didn't cut in front of me and if another car wasn't beside me, I could've, would've, should've had my way! Again, you're not entitled to the entire road because of your mood that day.

 

[Pando]

@rEVhappy don't get me wrong, the T driver was the much bigger a**hole in this case. The situation was exaggerated by the fact that the T driver felt that the MC rider got preferential treatment (by lane splitting), and in turn he then tried to use the horsepower under his a** to try to get even.

 

[rEVhappy]

@rEVhappy don't get me wrong, the T driver was the much bigger a**hole in this case. The situation was exaggerated by the fact that the T driver felt that the MC driver got preferential treatment (by lane splitting), and in turn he then tried to use the horsepower under his a** to try to get even.

Fair enough, that much we can agree on.

 

[cgiGuy]

To all those saying 'lane splitting is dangerous'.. please help me understand what would've changed about the main incident (Tesla not leaving enough space, swerving and braking recklessly) if let's say hypothetically, there was no lane splitting done by the bike in the video?

If the bike was in a lane and had the green, he would have been way ahead. If the Tesla had a lane and a green light he would have been way ahead. Hence.. the purpose of a metering light to begin with. Bike decided to go at the same time as the Tesla, who had the green light.

I could care less if they split lanes while we're moving slow on the highway. One less vehicle taking up space. But I once saw a motorcycle split lanes all the way up to the pay booth at a Six Flags. Give me a break...

 

[rEVhappy]

If the bike was in a lane and had the green, he would have been way ahead. If the Tesla had a lane and a green light he would have been way ahead. Hence.. the purpose of a metering light to begin with. Bike decided to go at the same time as the Tesla, who had the green light.

Again, I'm talking about the primary incident (ie, the Tesla being reckless). What would've changed? Consider if this happened to a slower moving car or at a standard stop light on a surface street.

 

[cgiGuy]

Again, I'm talking about the primary incident (ie, the Tesla being reckless). What would've changed? Consider if this happened to a slower moving car or at a standard stop light on a surface street.

At a standard light, you would expect traffic in both lanes to move immediately (except for the obligatory person with their face in their phone who sits there for 10 seconds). So, it's possible he didn't even know the bike was there.

 

[Pando]

Sure, you have a point. But consider if this happened to a non-lane splitting bike that had a green light right before the Tesla (and moving much slower). Would the Tesla's recklessness be justified or rationalized? If not, then it clearly shows there's a heavy bias based on the fact that you think lane splitting is dangerous (your opinion is weighed too heavily to have an objective view)

I don't think lane splitting is that dangerous when done correctly. There is a 15 mph legal limit* on how fast you can pass the cars. When I'm on a freeway I try to give them as much room as I can by widening their path, and most MC riders acknowledge and wave. Those who abuse that privilege will barrel past your mirrors within fraction of an inch.

The MC rider in the video was abusing his privilege, he should have stopped at the light, even momentarily. The T driver made an big error in judgement by racing in the first place and then cutting him off.

*EDIT: there is currently no set legal limit for lane splitting. Thanks cgiGuy for pointing it out below.

 

[cgiGuy]

In addition, since the bike went immediately to the right lane, he was essentially running the red light in that lane. If he thought he had the privilege of taking the green meter light, he should have moved into the lane that had the green.

 

[Pando]

So, it's possible he didn't even know the bike was there.

I doubt it. The MC rider was clearly ahead of T until it passed him. I have a feeling that the T would have just lazily accelerated if the MC rider wasn't there.

 

[cgiGuy]

I don't think lane splitting is that dangerous when done correctly. There is a 15 mph legal limit on how fast you can pass the cars.

I don't think this is true. There are plenty of suggestions out there, but I could find no actual laws. This article talks about a proposed addition, but it was tabled last year. Lawmaker puts brakes on motorcycle lane-splitting bill

 

[rEVhappy]

In addition, since the bike went immediately to the right lane, he was essentially running the red light in that lane. If he thought he had the privilege of taking the green meter light, he should have moved into the lane that had the green.

There are 3 vehicles but only 2 lanes, but 3rd vehicle can lane split, hmmm... The bike would always be on the left or right of 'someone', so is it okay for bike to share the lane with a car on the same lane? It's a grey area, but a little common sense goes a long way here. We're not machines, and not every grey area needs to be defined.

An onramp light, IMO.. is a dummy light because of people that don't know how to merge properly. It's sometimes turned on too early or too late when there's clearly no traffic, and it seems foolish to sit there counting to 3 mississippi until dummy light thinks it's okay for you to go ahead and start accelerating.

 

[Pando]

I don't think this is true. There are plenty of suggestions out there, but I could find no actual laws. This article talks about a proposed addition, but it was tabled last year. Lawmaker puts brakes on motorcycle lane-splitting bill

I stand corrected. You're right, there is no specific law passed yet on this, but you can still be in violation of a basic speed law when going at an excessive speed and endangering everyone around.

 

[brianman]

An onramp light, IMO.. is a dummy light because of people that don't know how to merge properly.

I disagree. An onramp light is intended to control traffic flow. It's not about people merging into the 1 lane to then merge with the freeway lanes. It's about limiting the volume of such merging (regardless of how many onramp lanes) into the freeway lanes.

 

[Pando]

Exactly, and they usually turn them off when not needed in lighter freeway traffic.

 

[deonb]

I've watched it several times. I don't know about you, but I coast or decelerate when I see someone merging into my lane, not accelerate like the asshat did. This is because you're supposed to consider all possibilities, like.. I don't know, the car will abruptly brake in front of you.

There is no way anybody in the US drives in a way that accounts for the possibility of a vehicle abruptly stopping in front of them at all times. If you do that, you'll have to leave a gap so large that you'll be constantly cut off and will have to keep falling back all the time. Nobody actually drives likes that, even though everybody pretends that they do.

I will be Spartacus here and say I don't drive like that.

Secondly, you don't swerve into an adjacent lane to avoid an obstacle in front of you if you don't know the conditions in those adjacent lanes. It was by mere luck that MAC douche didn't strike the bike. Imagine if, let's say the bike started accelerating quickly just a second prior to the lane change. There would've certainly been an impact that would've affected not only the bike, but anyone else following from behind. You can make all sorts of excuses for him, but it in no way justifies his actions.

So is it your position now that "MAC douche" made a bad decision that could have had bad consequences?

That's very different than your original position of: "he wanted to show the biker who's boss by cutting him off."

 

[rEVhappy]

There is no way anybody in the US drives in a way that accounts for the possibility of a vehicle abruptly stopping in front of them at all times. If you do that, you'll have to leave a gap so large that you'll be constantly cut off and will have to keep falling back all the time. Nobody actually drives likes that, even though everybody pretends that they do.

I will be Spartacus here and say I don't drive like that.

Have you driven on a freeway where you're cruising at around 70 mph, and for whatever reason, traffic in front of you comes screeching to a complete stop? To avoid smacking the car in front of you that has locked its brakes, you too have to do an emergency stop maneuver. This is a common occurrence here in SoCal, and what saves my ass every time is keeping a distance manageable enough to come to a complete stop in time.

Watch the video again, the car that merged in front of the Tesla was more than 50 feet ahead of it, yet the Tesla continues to accelerate. This was not some last minute oopsie, he had more than enough time and space to assess the situation and realize he's going way too fast for the conditions.

So is it your position now that "MAC douche" made a bad decision that could have had bad consequences?

That's very different than your original position of: "he wanted to show the biker who's boss by cutting him off."

I don't get where you're coming from here. He made a bad decision, whether that was based on terrible judgement and failure to yield or an attempt to one up someone, I frankly don't know. But his actions afterwards, where he rolls down his window and yells out "careful" makes me believe it's the latter. He's either someone who can't drive for *sugar* (I see 4 big demerits, not leaving a safe distance, accelerating too fast for the conditions, swerving recklessly into the adjacent lane, braking way too hard) and should turn his license in to the nearest DMV or he's an a$$hole. Any way you slice it, it's a giant fail on his part.

 

[whitex]

Sure, you have a point. But consider if this happened to a non-lane splitting bike that had a green light right before the Tesla (and moving much slower). Would the Tesla's recklessness be justified or rationalized? If not, then it clearly shows there's a heavy bias based on the fact that you think lane splitting is dangerous (your opinion is weighed too heavily to have an objective view)

Did the Tesla create a dangerous situation cutting the motorcycle off? Absolutely, and if an accident happened he would have been at fault too, even if you interpret the situation as the bike running a red light (a valid interpretation given the lack of the law specificity on lane splitting). However, I think the point people are making is that happened because there was a race, which would not have happened with a non-lane splitting bike. There is a reason why the "one per green" light don't go at the same time. It prevents racing at lights that open onto 60mph limit roads. Enter "lane splitting" and "everyone gets it in CA" free interpretation of the law, or lack thereof, and you've basically nullified the safety feature of staggering the green lights.

Btw, the sad fact about how the laws are created in this country, it will take someone dying in an accident to fix the law.

 

[deonb]

Have you driven on a freeway where you're cruising at around 70 mph, and for whatever reason, traffic in front of you comes screeching to a complete stop? To avoid smacking the car in front of you that has locked its brakes, you too have to do an emergency stop maneuver. This is a common occurrence here in SoCal, and what saves my ass every time is keeping a distance manageable enough to come to a complete stop in time.

It's not "for whatever reason". People very very seldom stops "for whatever" reason. They stop because they encounter traffic or other obstacles. If you have to do emergency stops all the time, you're not observant of the traffic and road conditions in front of the guy immediately ahead. 95% of the time I ease off the accelerator BEFORE the breaks lights in front of me go on. That's the thing I hate most about TACC - it can't look ahead, so it basically drives like a 16-year old.

Watch the video again, the car that merged in front of the Tesla was more than 50 feet ahead of it, yet the Tesla continues to accelerate. This was not some last minute oopsie, he had more than enough time and space to assess the situation and realize he's going way too fast for the conditions.

The car merged at lane speed. Just like everybody else generally does as well. It's not until after he completed his merge into the lane that he decided to stop dead. Just look at all of the other cars on the highway passing him on both sides. He was the lone stationary vehicle.

 

[rEVhappy]

Did the Tesla create a dangerous situation cutting the motorcycle off? Absolutely, and if an accident happened he would have been at fault too, even if you interpret the situation as the bike running a red light (a valid interpretation given the lack of the law specificity on lane splitting). However, I think the point people are making is that happened because there was a race, which would not have happened with a non-lane splitting bike. There is a reason why the "one per green" light don't go at the same time. It prevents racing at lights that open onto 60mph limit roads. Enter "lane splitting" and "everyone gets it in CA" free interpretation of the law, or lack thereof, and you've basically nullified the safety feature of staggering the green lights.

Btw, the sad fact about how the laws are created in this country, it will take someone dying in an accident to fix the law.

But this is where you're interpreting it wrong. There was no race. The bike was shifting casually. It was the Tesla that created the racing situation, and worse, he was relentless in his pursuit of overtaking the bike. Did the bike at any time prior to the incident try to merge into the left lane? No. Also consider that if lane splitting is legal, the staggered on ramp lights will have little effect on traffic, since the bike can squirt its way thru and wouldn't get in the cars hair in any way.

Also Bikes are known for their jack rabbit starts, they accelerate quicker than your average car, so 9 times out of 10, the bike will win the race without even trying. This was the case here, but MAC ass took it as a threat to his superiority or wanted to play citizen cop.

And I'll mention it again, lane splitting has never felt like a threat to me. If anything, its the bikers who have to watch their a$$, so generally speaking.. they're cautious. Remember, you're no more entitled to the road than the biker is, and lane splitting IS legal. There has been research that it is safer for the biker in some circumstances to lane split and it is better for traffic flow for everyone, thus improving safety overall. I've never EVER felt my life was in danger because of a bike lane splitting. Have you?

It's not "for whatever reason". People very very seldom stops "for whatever" reason. They stop because they encounter traffic or other obstacles. If you have to do emergency stops all the time, you're not observant of the traffic and road conditions in front of the guy immediately ahead. 95% of the time I ease off the accelerator BEFORE the breaks lights in front of me go on.

'For whatever reason' means for a litany of reasons or for various reasons: old lady merging, accident up ahead, someone with their face buried in their phone had to brake harder than usual. But see, that wasn't even my initial point and you've proven my point by saying you ease off the accelerator before you see brake lights, so my response train to you stops right here.

 

[whitex]

But this is where you're interpreting it wrong. There was no race. The bike was shifting casually. It was the Tesla that created the racing situation.

Ok, no there was no race but instead a racing situation. That situation would have been prevented by staggered on-ramp green lights had the bike not been lane splitting.

I've never EVER felt my life was in danger because of a bike lane splitting. Have you?

I'm not a bike rider so I never felt in danger, though once I almost had a motorcycle almost plow into me when I was turning from stop-go-traffic and not expecting anyone to come flying out between the lanes. I also think the guy in the video may have felt some danger, regardless whose fault, but still would not have happened if he wasn't lane-splitting.