Options & Pricing page updated (2012/01/12)

[Mycroft]

What exactly is the big deal with CF accents? From what I understand, CF is great from an engineering perspective. Light, strong, but expensive. From a style perspective, if you like it, great, but I don't understand why the sport model would require it as the interior option.

CF is closely associated with accents in high performance cars. There's an industry of 3rd parties making replacement CF parts for a wide range of HP or near-HP cars.

As I said, I think Elon really wants the performance version of the Model S to stand out from "normal" 4-door sedans. After all, your Nissan Max, Audi A7, and non-AMG CLS can't do 4.4 secs. While the AMG and BMW M can do it, they require < 20MPG, a lot of noise, and > 500hp to do it. With the accents (and possibly badging), and some savvy marketing will start associating the Tesla brand along side Mercedes and BMW for performance and not just for "luxury".

Mercedes CLS63 AMG - 518hp, 4.4, base price $94,900
2010 BMW M5 - 500hp 4.7sec, base price $85,700 (2012 will likely be faster and much more expensive)
Model S Performance - 435hp, 4.4, base price $84,900

Now, it could be argued that this could be accomplished with other accents than CF. True, but this is what they've come up with. I just think they want the Sport to be easily identifiable for whatever reason.

 

[AnOutsider]

Agreed

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[ckessel]

It just seems bizarre to deny customers choices and require CF. They already have to support the other options anyway, so it's not like it's simplifying the production line.

Anyway, it was mostly a curiosity question since I'm not likely getting the sport and I have no idea what the CF looks like. Just seemed odd to me since CF's lightweight toughness isn't really relevant for interior bits. Hopefully we won't think, in 5 years, that it looks gaudy like spinning hubcaps

 

[Norbert]

It just seems bizarre to deny customers choices and require CF. They already have to support the other options anyway, so it's not like it's simplifying the production line.

Well, they might start with the performance version. They probably would like to avoid iterating through all possible permutations in the beginning. And/or they want branding effects, especially at first. Maybe later they add more flexibility in the options.

 

[ckessel]

Well, they might start with the performance version. They probably would like to avoid iterating through all possible permutations in the beginning. And/or they want branding effects, especially at first. Maybe later they add more flexibility in the options.

Heh, you think some people are annoyed now about battery differences affecting delivery, the screaming would be deafening if there's yet another way to jump the line.

 

[AnOutsider]

Well to get performance you have to already be in the 300m camp (or jump the line into it), so not too much more line jumping there.

 

[ckessel]

Given the first 1000 are Sigs, unless they're going to make a mess of the Sig ordering, the perf isn't going to take precedence. Can you imagine Sig #1 having to wait for Sig #1000?

 

[AnOutsider]

Given the first 1000 are Sigs, unless they're going to make a mess of the Sig ordering, the perf isn't going to take precedence. Can you imagine Sig #1 having to wait for Sig #1000?

It happened with fisker! Granted, a different company and all, but if Tesla batches runs by options and paint, that could very well happen. There's also geography to play a role in who gets their cars first. As long as the sigs are out before P's though, it should be cool.

 

[ckessel]

Are you just playing Devil's advocate or do you really think "it should be cool" if Sig #1000 delivered before Sig #1?

 

[Norbert]

Heh, you think some people are annoyed now about battery differences affecting delivery, the screaming would be deafening if there's yet another way to jump the line.

Maybe they'll make sure that Sig #1 still comes before Sig #100, but otherwise work in batches.

 

[Larry Chanin]

Given the first 1000 are Sigs, unless they're going to make a mess of the Sig ordering, the perf isn't going to take precedence. Can you imagine Sig #1 having to wait for Sig #1000?

So you don't think there will be any batching of similar signature reservations based on options? I'm inclined to believe that they will take a look at the first couple of hundred signature reservations and put the performance reservations first, then continue with the regular signatures. After the first batch is completed they would do the same with the next batch. As the production rate ramps upward they might go with bigger batches putting the high option reservations first.

To meet their minimum 5000 2012 target the average production rate is going to be more than 200 a week. If they kept the size of the batch to the weekly production rate there wouldn't be many complaints if all cars in a batch were produced in the same week.

Larry

 

[ckessel]

I don't think we have any knowledge whatsoever about it. I do think that Sig #2 probably expects, without any doubt at all, that they'll be way, way, way, way before Sig #137 and you'll have some incredibly pissed off Sig holders if Tesla doesn't manage that expectation. But hey, that's just how I'd feel. I suspect I'm a pretty typical person in that sense, but maybe not.

 

[AnOutsider]

Are you just playing Devil's advocate or do you really think "it should be cool" if Sig #1000 delivered before Sig #1?

Not playing Devil's advocate, or where I even said anything was "cool" (please don't put words in my mouth). I'm saying it's a real possibility depending on how things are batched. From the event, we know their sprayer can switch up colors fairly easily (I don't remember how many at once), but it's not at all a stretch to think that they'll batch cars. Now if that means they build all one color one day, another color the next etc and on Friday release that week's cars for delivery at once, or send them off one-by-one is unknown -- but again, batching is common and somewhat likely (heck, by doing 300m packs first they're batching already).

 

[ckessel]

or where I even said anything was "cool" (please don't put words in my mouth)

Huh? Did you not just say the following less than 45 minutes ago? How am I putting words into your mouth? I'm totally confused.

As long as the sigs are out before P's though, it should be cool

 

[Larry Chanin]

I do think that Sig #2 probably expects, without any doubt at all, that they'll be way, way, way, way before Sig #137 and you'll have some incredibly pissed off Sig holders if Tesla doesn't manage that expectation. But hey, that's just how I'd feel. I suspect I'm a pretty typical person in that sense, but maybe not.

Of course I never fail to be surprised how pissed off some folks get over what to me appears as a trivial issue. :wink:

Nevertheless, I'm inclined to believe that most reasonable folks wouldn't be bent out of shape if the reservation order was preserved within about a week or so. So if I were Sig #2 and I received my car at the end of the same week as Sig #137, no I wouldn't be incredibly pissed off even if I didn't get it before Sig #137.

Larry

 

[ckessel]

So if I were Sig #2 and I received my car at the end of the same week as Sig #137, no I wouldn't be incredibly pissed off even if I didn't get it before Sig #137.

I'll certainly agree with that, though I don't see any reason to believe they'll build that quickly during the initial deliveries. Who knows, maybe they will.

 

[strider]

Yeah, let's remember that even if they make them out of order the VINs can still be in reservation order and they could still DELIVER them in reservation order. No reason they couldn't make Sig 3-137 before Sig 2 and just park 3-137 in the factory somewhere (they have the space ).

 

[ckessel]

I think underlying all of it is that Tesla needs to do a better job of setting and managing expectations. A bunch of folks (like myself) were pretty upset about the Sig pricing, but that's because Tesla hadn't done any work managing expectations. They haven't really done much management of expectations about how deliveries will occur. They didn't do anything to get in front of the recent executive exits to manage expectations either.

People are generally more forgiving when not surprised. Even if the event ends up being a marginal issue, it's magnified when it's unexpected.

 

[Larry Chanin]

I'll certainly agree with that, though I don't see any reason to believe they'll build that quickly during the initial deliveries. Who knows, maybe they will.

The point is if the batch size is kept within a reasonable value, say the current weekly production rate, then most folks shouldn't get bent out of shape if their car is not delivered in the precise reservation order. As the production rate ramps up the batches can get larger thereby effecting greater efficiencies.

I imagine that other processes will create other batching. For example, they will have to wait for sufficient cars to be produced for a given geographical region to permit loading into a car carrier. This will also effect delivery order.

Larry

 

[AnOutsider]

Huh? Did you not just say the following less than 45 minutes ago? How am I putting words into your mouth? I'm totally confused.

Cool, as in "all good", not "oh dude, that was totally cool!"

As for managing expectations, yes they could offer more info, but we also have to remember we folk on this board are prone to wild speculation which seems to turn into expectations. Outside of this board, pricing and options were very well received