Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits

[vgrinshpun]

Not to be too much of a pill on Xmas, but perhaps if you had been screwed you'd feel different?

Let's assume you order a "Halo" Model 3 with a cheaper version of Ludicrous Mode for, say, $5k. Then you find out months later that your "special" feature has a counter that only gives you the acceleration you read about in the many articles on the car for a lousy 25 launches, and then it's gone forever . . . .

Wouldn't you be a little torqued off, especially if none of this was mentioned before you shelled out the money?

Where is "25 launches" come from? Is it a fact?

 

[n2mb_racing]

Where is "25 launches" come from? Is it a fact?

yes, seems to be acknowledged.

 

[Andyw2100]

Has anyone sent a tweet to Elon on this whole launch/power reduction rumor? I also would find it hard to believe he would evade any answer...

OK, not a rumor... What says Elon?

I imagine if pressed, Musk would provide an answer that sounds pretty similar to the new disclaimer.

What would you hope for? Something more like, "Nah, don't worry about it! We'll remove the new disclaimer from our site, and we'll stop limiting cars. It was just a big misunderstanding. It's all cool."

You could hope for a response like that. In fact, we all could. We're just not going to get it!

 

[vgrinshpun]

yes, seems to be acknowledged.

I don't think so. I might be wrong, but it seems that a number mentioned by somebody as an example now has legs.

The situation is confusing enough, so mixing hypotheticals with facts does not help...

 

[Andyw2100]

I don't think so. I might be wrong, but it seems that a number mentioned by somebody as an example now has legs.

The situation is confusing enough, so mixing hypotheticals with facts does not help...

Below, I believe, is the post where the 25 came from. It definitely was not just "mentioned as an example", but rather provided as hard, cold fact. Note the tone of the rest of the post. The poster, andrewket, makes it sound like this is not a big deal. So he was not throwing the number out in an attempt to make Tesla look bad. (I added the bold.)

Here is the deal..

This only impacts P90Ds. There is a lifetime counter on launches. However, to count as a launch a bunch of crieteria must be met:

1. Launch mode must be on
2. SOC must be >90%
3. Perfect traction must be maintained. Any amount of slip will cause power to be reduced and it won't count.

The limit is 25 for the rear drive unit. If this limit is hit, power is reduced slightly resulting is a difference of 0.05s 0-60.

Basically, unless you regularly take your car to the drag strip and can manage to maintain perfect traction while meeting all or the other conditions above, this is a non-issue.

I encourage everyone not to blow this out of proportion.

 

[msnow]

Below, I believe, is the post where the 25 came from. It definitely was not just "mentioned as an example", but rather provided as hard, cold fact. Note the tone of the rest of the post. The poster, andrewket, makes it sound like this is not a big deal. So he was not throwing the number out in an attempt to make Tesla look bad. (I added the bold.)

I'd also add that from what I've seen since being on this forum, andrewket is a very reliable source.

 

[Garlan Garner]

OK, we don't need to argue more about this .

Let's start a petition to have all of the counters reset and a clear explanation as to what triggers the counters. We also need to know the number of launches we get. Then, the owners can decide when to use up their launches.

Let's then each email our service managers and ask for a response. If we can't get it through email and Twitter, then we move to a class action suit.

There ya go.

I love it. @n2mb_racing is willing to do something. That would be great...a petition.

 

[Garlan Garner]

The fact that even 1600 amps didn't met their 10.9 seconds 1/4 mile claim..

Ok so lets join the petition to do something about it.

 

[vgrinshpun]

Below, I believe, is the post where the 25 came from. It definitely was not just "mentioned as an example", but rather provided as hard, cold fact. Note the tone of the rest of the post. The poster, andrewket, makes it sound like this is not a big deal. So he was not throwing the number out in an attempt to make Tesla look bad. (I added the bold.)

Thanks for digging this post out.

There also was a post by an owner of Drag Times who said that he used launch mode much more often than that, with no limit to power output observed. Another question I have about this is whether drop of 50-60kW in output (not sure of exact number) reported by the only member who observed reduced output power is consistent with 0.05s 0-60 acceleration difference: "The limit is 25 for the rear drive unit. If this limit is hit, power is reduced slightly resulting is a difference of 0.05s 0-60."

And finally, per @andrewket, it is not total of 25 launches, but 25 perfect launches, where power is not reduced due to imperfect traction.

 

[Andyw2100]

Thanks for digging this post out.

Sure.

There also was a post by an owner of Drug Times who said that he used launch mode much more often than that, with no limit to power output observed.

Actually that's not what he said. He was talking about someone else's car and he said he'd check with that person and report back, but he hasn't yet.

This is what he said:

wow, catching up on this tread... if there is a 25 launch limit on the P90DL V3, then the TRC car would have hit it a long time ago, he is still running strong as far I can see, I will follow up with him and check in, get a power reading... If there is a limit, it would be a big big deal, especially for the $$ people pay take of those extra 1/10ths from the 60 MPH time...

 

[Garlan Garner]

I wasn't around much when that happened, so won't comment on it.

I can say that when the original P85D 0-60 time (with one foot rollout, as we now know) was improved from 3.2 seconds to 3.1 seconds, via software update, people here were very pleased, and many of us said so.

i think one major point that your most recent post fails to address is that there is a huge difference between a company delivering more than their customers have paid for and a company delivering less than what their customers paid for, or taking away functionality that the customers have already enjoyed. The former is nice, and generally appreciated at least somewhat. The latter infuriates people, and depending on the severity, could be considered fraudulent.

I have no single post that encompasses all of my suggestions and thoughts. I totally agree that customers are infuriated . That's the whole reason for this thread. Folks are venting....I get it.

That's why I'm trying to provide suggestions as to what to do.

Petittion
Class action Law suit
Enact the Lemon Law
Turn the car back in.
Somehow get together and make Tesla provide a 100D upgrade.

 

[vgrinshpun]

Sure.



Actually that's not what he said. He was talking about someone else's car and he said he'd check with that person and report back, but he hasn't yet.

This is what he said:

Ok, once again, thanks for digging it out, you are much faster with searches than I am. So he was referring to the TRC, which, as far as I know holds the 1/4 mile record for P90D...

My original question, however, still stands: first we do not know where information about 25 launches come from (perhaps @andrewket can chime in), secondly the limitation is actually 25 launches with no slip whatsoever, and thirdly, it does not seem that slight reduction in 0-60 time mentioned by @andrewket is consistent with reduction in power observed by @Tech_Guy.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I would argue this thread is producing increasingly detailed and accurate information on the issue at hand, quite uniquely so (rivalled perhaps only by Reddit). In addition to ownership education, this leads to exposure that has already resulted in news story or stories and changes to Tesla's written materials (which will further educate owners).

I would say that is doing something about it.

I would agree...however let me ask this question.


Including all of the things said about me personally and the lashing out at me.....who has gotten their car situation squared away? Aside from feeling better about bashing me and calling me a troll and all kinds of other names....who has gotten any satisfaction with their launch mode situation? Not very many if any.

If you personally feel better...then fine...It's been no skin off my back...I'm glad I could help. I'm glad there is a news story. How can all of you contribute to the news story? How can the news story get more traction with Elon/Tesla? What do you guys think?

 

[Garlan Garner]

Thanks for digging this post out.

There also was a post by an owner of Drug Times who said that he used launch mode much more often than that, with no limit to power output observed. Another question I have about this is whether drop of 50-60kW in output (not sure of exact number) reported by the only member who observed reduced output power is consistent with 0.05s 0-60 acceleration difference: "The limit is 25 for the rear drive unit. If this limit is hit, power is reduced slightly resulting is a difference of 0.05s 0-60."

And finally, per @andrewket, it is not total of 25 launches, but 25 perfect launches, where power is not reduced due to imperfect traction.

So what did Tesla admit to if the problem isn't happening with everyone?

 

[vgrinshpun]

I have no single post that encompasses all of my suggestions and thoughts. I totally agree that customers are infuriated . That's the whole reason for this thread. Folks are venting....I get it.

That's why I'm trying to provide suggestions as to what to do.

Petittion
Class action Law suit
Enact the Lemon Law
Turn the car back in.
Somehow get together and make Tesla provide a 100D upgrade.

I think that it would be beneficial to figure out exactly what is going on before choosing specific plan of action...

My main question is why Tesla stated (twice now) that limitation is applied only when car is in "launch mode", while @Tech_Guy, the only member who I know of that reported reduction in output observed reduction in power even when "launch mode" is not engaged. I have to say once again, that from a technical point of view, reducing power output for launch mode makes sense, while power output reduction for no launch mode engaged does not. It could be that @Tech_Guy experiencing something else, or even that Tesla has error in the code - meaning that power output is cut even when no "launch mode" is engaged, while the intent is to cut it ONLY when the "launch mode" is engaged.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I think that it would be beneficial to figure out exactly what is going on before choosing specific plan of action...

My main question is why Tesla stated (twice now) that limitation is applied only for applied when car is in "launch mode", while @Tech_Guy, the only member who I know of that reported reduction in output observed reduction in power even when "launch mode" is not engaged. I have to say once again, that from a technical point of view, reducing power output for launch mode make sense, while power output reduction for no launch mode engaged does not. It could be that @Tech_Guy experiencing something else, or even that Tesla has error in the code - meaning that power output is cut even when no "launch mode" is engaged, while the intent is to cut it ONLY when the "launch mode" is engaged.

Excellent questions. And why did the owner of Drug Times not experience this after many many launches?

 

[Andyw2100]

Excellent questions. And why did the owner of Drug Times not experience this after many many launches?

First of all, it is Drag Times, not Drug Times. I didn't correct it the first time, as I thought it could be a typo, but I decided to this time.

Second of all, did you read my response to vgrinshpun? fiksegts was talking about someone else's car, and said he would have to check and get back to us. He hasn't yet. I included his entire post a few posts above this one.

 

[brianman]

a petition.

synonym for placebo

 

[azdryheat]

wow, catching up on this tread... if there is a 25 launch limit on the P90DL V3, then the TRC car would have hit it a long time ago, he is still running strong as far I can see, I will follow up with him and check in, get a power reading... If there is a limit, it would be a big big deal, especially for the $$ people pay take of those extra 1/10ths from the 60 MPH time...

as far as being common to limit performance of sports cars, I have not seen that done permanently like this... for the GT-R and some others, you just have to let the car cool down before launching again...

I really hope the P100D performance increase is not tied to the warranty validation...

From the way I read what Tesla has finally put out to the public, they only started doing this at a certain time. Could be that the TRC car did 100 launches, then another 23 after the limitation was put into place. This is part of the problem, they won't give you the entire story.

 

[vgrinshpun]

From the way I read what Tesla has finally put out to the public, they only started doing this at a certain time. Could be that the TRC car did 100 launches, then another 23 after the limitation was put into place. This is part of the problem, they won't give you the entire story.

They started doing it at the time when current output increased for P90D from ~1500A to ~1600A. This is the entire story.

Also, apparently not all launches count. According to the post by Andrewket majority of launches (only when car is actually in the launch mode) do not count because of the less than perfect traction causes reduced power launch, without causing power train component(s) to reach critical (trigger) temperature.