Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits

[MP3Mike]

And even for the owner that did hit the limit (it seems that Tech_guy is the only one so far?), it is not clear whether the limit affects launches only when car is in the "launch mode", as Tesla stated twice; in the email to Tech_guy and in the in-car (?) version of the manual, or any launch, regardless of whether the car was in "launch mode" or not, as experienced by Tech_guy.

I'm pretty sure that @Tech_Guy said that the power is limited period. He gets the same in launch mode or not in launch mode.

Edit: Found the post: "I've done the testing and sent all the data to tesla after a month I finally got that answer.... once launch mode is used too many times the cars power is reduced permanently. Changing modes makes no difference... the pack power is limited no matter what mode your in."

So it would appear that Tesla isn't being 100% accurate/honest in what they say. (Or they have a bug in their limitation code.)

 

[Garlan Garner]

According to Tech_Guy post, he started to experience power limitation after 8.0 update which was rolled out starting on September 22. I believe that P90D V3 started to be delivered at approximately the same time (August ?), so assumption that TRC car experienced a lot of its launches before Tesla introduced counter does not hold.

Does the limitation in power keep the P90D from producing the official LaunchMode HP or torque or anything?

In other words: Lets say that the official required HP for the P90D LaunchMode is 691HP. However before the limitation ( Pre-8.0 ) LaunchMode was producing 710HP, but now LaunchMode is being limited back down to 691HP. That can't be fought against.

We need someone that can produce official numbers of subordinate LaunchMode HP coming out of the P90D post 8.0.

 

[vgrinshpun]

I'm pretty sure that @Tech_Guy said that the power is limited period. He gets the same in launch mode or not in launch mode.

Edit: Found the post: "I've done the testing and sent all the data to tesla after a month I finally got that answer.... once launch mode is used to many times the cars power is reduced permanently. Changing modes makes no difference... the pack power is limited no matter what mode your in."

So it would appear that Tesla isn't being 100$ accurate/honest in what they say. (Or they have a bug in their limitation code.)

We are saying the same thing except for the honest part...

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Does the limitation in power keep the P90D from producing the official LaunchMode HP or torque or anything?

In other words: Lets say that the official required HP for the P90D is 691HP. However before the limitation ( Pre-8.0 ) LaunchMode was producing 710HP, but now LaunchMode is being limited back down to 691HP. That can't be fought against.

We need someone that can produce official numbers of subordinate LaunchMode HP coming out of the P90D post 8.0.

While returning overperformance to a lower, but stil sufficient level is one thing, I guess one of the previous points was the quarter mile.

Apparently P90DL V1 was not reaching the advertised quarter mile?

 

[davidc18]

Do we know when he counter was installed. Did it arrive with fw 8.0?

 

[MP3Mike]

My guess is that the counter doesn't know anything about launch mode, it just increments the counter anytime x Amps are drawn for more than y continuous seconds. (With x probably being ~1,600, and y being unknown at this time.) I'm guess the specific details listed earlier are the estimated conditions that allow you to hit the x Amps for y seconds.

 

[vgrinshpun]

Do we know when he counter was installed. Did it arrive with fw 8.0?

I do not believe so. Tech_guy indicated that he started experiencing power limitation after 8.0, which means that the counter had to be in the code substantially before the roll-out of 8.0

If, on another hand, the counter was indeed installed with 8.0, that would mean that power limitation experienced by Tech_guy is not related to the counter.

 

[St Charles]

A $1,000 refundable deposit on a Model 3. Not the same.

Winner, Winner! Chicken Dinner.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I do not believe so. Tech_guy indicated that he started experiencing power limitation after 8.0, which means that the counter had to be in the code substantially before the roll-out of 8.0

If, on another hand, the counter was indeed installed with 8.0, that would mean that power limitation experienced by Tech_guy is not related to the counter.

But does the limitation push the P90D below posted requirements? Or are folks just disenfranchised by the fact that there was a limitation. In other words....is the P90D underperforming posted LaunchMode performance?

 

[rowdy]

My guess is that the counter doesn't know anything about launch mode, it just increments the counter anytime x Amps are drawn for more than y continuous seconds. (With x probably being ~1,600, and y being unknown at this time.) I'm guess the specific details listed earlier are the estimated conditions that allow you to hit the x Amps for y seconds.

Yup I think you are right. Would explain the very vague wording from Tesla.

I think it's simply Max Battery being enabled and then any high power draw (>500kW?) incrementing the counter.

 

[rowdy]

But does the limitation push the P90D below posted requirements? Or are folks just disenfranchised by the fact that there was a limitation. In other words....is the P90D underperforming posted LaunchMode performance?

Yes. Without the extra current the car doesn't meet the published 10.9 spec.

 

[davidc18]

I would expect that yes, it would drop the performance down to the V1 level, which did not perform to published specs, which is why there are V2 and V3 packs.

 

[St Charles]

One issue I have not seen confirmed yet is whether launch mode actually accomplishes anything on a P90D. From posts I have seen on other threads and this one the consensus seems to be that it does not (a few examples below -- could not get the quote function to work for some reason).

If that's true the main issue would seem to be for the owners who have hit the limit already.

@sorka: "I've seen no difference in comparing launch and no launch mode with a vbox"

@NSX1992: "I have tried Launch mode with no improvement therefore I use slip start for best results especially when you are racing against a Z06."

@St Charles: 2) Launch mode and slip start seem to yield similar results.

@St Charles: You bring up interesting points. I have definitely noticed that Launch control yields a bad reaction time. This actually has me a bit concerned as it would also imply that Launch mode has a short hiccup before taking off. In fact, you can see it in my graph I posted along with the timeslip.

I think LM helps a bit with traction whereas slipstart is a bit more traction-be-damned. I saw no real differences in measured 60' times at the track.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Yes. Without the extra current the car doesn't meet the published 10.9 spec.

At this point then .... someone is going to have to take official sub times so to Tesla. Did Techguy take these measurements?

 

[msnow]

While returning overperformance to a lower, but stil sufficient level is one thing, I guess one of the previous points was the quarter mile.

Apparently P90DL V1 was not reaching the advertised quarter mile?

Not until v3, v2 couldn't do it either.

 

[St Charles]

Not until v3, v2 couldn't do it either.

Much to my Dismay...

I do think it's possible on a hot day with no regard for the general health of the car, and a light driver I want to say Dragtimes has a V2 car that posted a 10.99 not too long ago.

 

[Garlan Garner]

How much is it missing the quarter mile numbers by? Official numbers?

 

[Garlan Garner]

Much to my Dismay...

I do think it's possible on a hot day with no regard for the general health of the car, and a light driver I want to say Dragtimes has a V2 car that posted a 10.99 not too long ago.

So is it missing the 10.9 times by .09 or .1?

Was that 10.99 time with LaunchMode intact?

 

[Andyw2100]

So is it missing the 10.9 times by .09 or .1?

Was that 10.99 time with LaunchMode intact?

Oddly enough, it is my understanding that the convention in drag racing is that a 10.99 quarter mile would actually meet the 10.9 spec.

 

[msnow]

Much to my Dismay...

I do think it's possible on a hot day with no regard for the general health of the car, and a light driver I want to say Dragtimes has a V2 car that posted a 10.99 not too long ago.

Wow, I wasn't aware of that, cool. Well you know who would say a 10.99 is a 10.9 which is probably right so that's cool. That means you still have a chance.