Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits

[xborg]

The UMC could not handle 40A charging in the heat of summer, so instead of redesigning it so that it could, tesla simply cut the charging power via a "firmware upgrade". After much complaining, they issued another "firmware upgrade", so that the power charging remains cut, but the screen still shows 40A.

Thanks for the informative post.
So what could be next? The car limits itself but reports unlimited powers? Sounds like something Tesla would do.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

i am following whats going on here.
I have a more "mature" POV if you care to define it that way (or responsible or you pick a definition)
and experience with "breaking things"
"did it break?"
yes or no
if no, try again (and have it fixed for free)
(Mom, it broke, buy me another please......)
Thats my POV

But the other perspective is of a spoiled kid making stuff that is disposable after a small amount of use it was made for (and not tell anyone they sell it to).

If we are all adults in the room, the answer is not either of these exteremes.

If Tesla Performance models need replacing of parts after certain use, then that needs to be disclosed pre-purchase like an adult would - and a maintenance regime implemented to keep the cars running. It does not have to be a free regime, of course, once pre-announced.

Making the Performance feature a very time-limited offer in a $100k+ car (and not tell anyone about it), is not the adult solution.

And if you screwed up and delivered faulty goods to your customers, you own it and make it right like an adult would. A child would try to sneak in secret to "fix" their mistake in secret, an adult would own it make it right...

 

[P85DEE]

Why do you think it is not the right way? I get it that you do, but your reasons are not clear?

I can see two perspectives publicity could be warranted:

1) Letting other owners know - this may be affecting them already and Tesla clearly isn't talking about it in public themselves, beyond vague disclaimer type of stuff. Helping your fellow owners out sound like the morally right thing to do, instead of watching in silence. No?

2) Publicity creates pressure on Tesla to act on this, while lack of publicity may discourage them from acting on it.

We're going on to end up with every make and manner of troll in here.

And a mess of FUD and inaccuracies on multiple other sites with regard to this.

Already the car suffers from myths propagated across the web.

It is better to handle this "in house", using some of the methods I mentioned prior as opposed to spreading this across the Web for the "amusement" of detractors, and to get twisted into an even worse "story".

 

[P85DEE]

P85DEE,

One of the biggest differences between you and I is the idea of filing suit to solve problems.

Litigation is a very last resort for me.

Likewise, I try not to do things in my life where a public discussion of those actions would be embarrassing. For example, I often ask myself while considering a dubious aerobatic maneuver "how am I going to explain this to the FAA?". I find it keeps my lesser instincts in check.

Regarding your part in bold.

If you think you've been done wrong, well then shouting from the rooftops before first going to the offending party and trying to work it out is not a reasonable first response.

We need to get all the facts that we can on this matter and devise strategies on how to deal with it and try to come to an amicable solution.

Not immediately shout from the rooftops with bullhorns and provide fodder for Tesla's enemies and potentially put them in a position where they "can't" do anything about it because they aren't "around" to do anything about it.

I'm calling on everyone in here reading this.

At some point during this upcoming week, contact your service center, service manager, or even higher up the chain if you can, calling is good, email is better, and let them know that you have heard about this, and ask them for specifics on it. Especially as it pertains to your own circumstance.

If there is a problem, well then cars which were purchased prior to Tesla's latest statement regarding power being cut, should be grandfathered in and exempt from such a move.

Any failures as a result should be covered under the terms of the original warranty.

Let them know that any reduction in the power of the car you bought is completely unacceptable and furthermore politely let them know that such an act will not be tolerated.

Those "disagreeing". Go ahead and post up your critique on this subject matter on as many other sites as you can click on, join as many ICE centric fora, and other fora as you possibly can, and post up about this matter, if you feel that this potential "scorched earth" method is a "reasonable" and "effective" strategy for dealing with this matter.

I think that is a less than reasonable and effective method of getting this matter resolved, but there are those who apparently disagree and I can't stop them.

 

[lolachampcar]

Yes, I believe all owners should be made aware of the problem so that they may contact Tesla if they like.

Hint, there are a few owners over on TM.

Lastly, I'm not going to govern my behavior by what trolls may or may not do. I'm not interested in that game.

I am a bit less optimistic as I had an issue with 691 hp and addressed this discreetly with Tesla. I provided suggestions for what I felt were reasonable solutions (had me forking over another $50K) but no accommodation was made. I revisited the issue after our European friends resolved their issue and, again, was told no accommodation would be made. I expect no less when contacting Tesla regarding counters and reduction in power.

 

[P85DEE]

But the other perspective is of a spoiled kid making stuff that is disposable after a small amount of use it was made for (and not tell anyone they sell it to).

If we are all adults in the room, the answer is not either of these exteremes.

If Tesla Performance models need replacing of parts after certain use, then that needs to be disclosed pre-purchase like an adult would - and a maintenance regime implemented to keep the cars running. It does not have to be a free regime, of course, once pre-announced.

Making the Performance feature a very time-limited offer in a $100k+ car (and not tell anyone about it), is not the adult solution.

And if you screwed up and delivered faulty goods to your customers, you own it and make it right like an adult would. A child would try to sneak in secret to "fix" their mistake in secret, an adult would own it make it right...

Exactly.

And the way I'd handle it is go back to the people who sold it to me and tell them; "Look, guys, this isn't going to work. This wasn't in the terms of our agreement. Wasn't expressed nor implied. No reasonable person would accept this, nor expect it. I did not misread nor misinterpret anything that you put before me when we closed our deal, which would have resulted in an overall misunderstanding on my part."

At this point, anyone whose power Tesla actually cuts in a car delivered prior to this announcement, should not accept it.

I don't care about the counters or their presence. But I do care if they use them as a tool in conjunction with cutting my power.

 

[AWDtsla]

Maybe Tesla should call the update Ludicrous++ instead...

Those versed in programming might get the joke.

The extra + is for how quickly you lose $40k of functionality and value.

 

[P85DEE]

Yes, I believe all owners should be made aware of the problem so that they may contact Tesla if they like.

Hint, there are a few owners over on TM.

Lastly, I'm not going to govern my behavior by what trolls may or may not do. I'm not interested in that game.

For all you know, you may already have.

Some of us never learn.

I wish you all the "success" that your misguided effort deserves, all the while knowing that Tesla edits posts out of that forum at will. That's aside from it being a haven for trolls, detractors and "collaborators".

I'll direct my efforts to the source and try to get my concerns answered and addressed at the source.

One response over there has already been "Good to put this all in one place, but you're not seriously suggesting a 2.4 sec P100D will be hobbled to 4.2 sec, as the title implies?!"

And then your own response:

"I'm being dramatic with the title."

Unreal. So then you're over there "trolling" yourself... Being dramatic with the title you say. Well that's not what's needed at this point. Why you thought so, is anyone's guess, but your own.

 

[St Charles]

Exactly.

And the way I'd handle it is go back to the people who sold it to me and tell them; "Look, guys, this isn't going to work. This wasn't in the terms of our agreement. Wasn't expressed nor implied. No reasonable person would accept this, nor expect it. I did not misread nor misinterpret anything that you put before me when we closed our deal, which would have resulted in an overall misunderstanding on my part."

At this point, anyone whose power Tesla actually cuts in a car delivered prior to this announcement, should not accept it.

I don't care about the counters or their presence. But I do care if they use them as a tool in conjunction with cutting my power.

This has already been done. The issue has persisted for months. Owners who were affected have been trying to work with Tesla, for months. They have not as yet been successful. IMO it is time to force the issue.

 

[FlatSix911]

Nonsense ... Stop being a fanboi and understand that we need to raise awareness of the issue so that Tesla provides a solution.

Unbelievable.
Unless you're just trying to spread this crap all over the internet, why in earth would you do that?
It's bad enough it's in here. Why put it elsewhere until we can get some know me of grip on it, or Tesla has some time to make this right.
And then with a title like that. That site is FULL of trolls. And full of people fishing for bad press on Tesla.
There is no point in putting this anywhere else on the internet than in here.
People in here saying that they're already concerned about the resale value of their cars.
And with that in mind, this matter should show up on as few web sites as possible until Tesla steps up and corrects it or at least has ample time to. Sometimes I wonder some of the moves we make.

 

[P85DEE]

This has already been done. The issue has persisted for months. Owners who were affected have been trying to work with Tesla, for months. They have not as yet been successful. IMO it is time to force the issue.

Which owners? PM me if you must. I'd like to hear from them.

Please define what you mean by "force the issue."

 

[P85DEE]

Nonsense ... Stop being a fanboi and understand that we need to raise awareness of the issue so that Tesla provides a solution.

A "fanboi" doesn't threaten a lawsuit if his power is cut.

My power gets cut, the only "awareness" I'll be raising, is that of those who cut it.

I don't care as much about a solution brought about through "outside pressure", or "the pressure of popular opinion" to bring about a solution.

That may or may not get it, takes too long, leads to mixed results and is too often less efficient than direct legal pressure.

If I get hit by this, then I try and get it resolved in the courts. Not on the internet trying to "stir awareness".

 

[lolachampcar]

P85DEE has a history of taking over threads with book long posts about his vision. When people stop feeding him (I'm guilty) he slows down but never really seems to go away. Logical argument only seems to spool him up. At least he started off reasonable in this thread.

 

[P85DEE]

P85DEE has a history of taking over threads with book long posts about his vision. When people stop feeding him (I'm guilty) he slows down but never really seems to go away. Logical argument only seems to spool him up. At least he started off reasonable in this thread.

And you have a history of seeing things in an extremely odd way.

What did the method of all of your crowing and jawing over the internet, and whimpering about Tesla not "being the company that it once was, it overpromises and undelivers" rhetoric over the horsepower matter, do towards gaining any reimbursement for those in the U.S. who claimed that they had been shortchanged on their horsepower?

Nothing.

What has all of your crying over the internet over the 10.9 matter resulted in for those who never hit it?

Again nothing

And now you seek to employ these "effective" methods over this matter.

Let me just say this:

Anyone's power gets cut, in a previously delivered car and against their permission, need not follow your example of bellyaching and whining over the internet "trying to raise awareness", and reminiscing about the days of old for Tesla.

That method is proven to fail. And thanks to you one can point to an example of it's ineffective track record.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

If you think you've been done wrong, well then shouting from the rooftops before first going to the offending party and trying to work it out is not a reasonable first response.

In general I agree, but also feel that this has been tried already. If Tesla was showing willingness to bend to that approach this story (and others such as the P85D 691 hp) would have been different already.

I would say nobody was immediately shouting from the rooftops. A lot of folks have approached Tesla for a solution - to which the latter basically responded with a CYA disclaimer only.

Tesla could easily respond if they wanted to.

shout from the rooftops with bullhorns and provide fodder for Tesla's enemies and potentially put them in a position where they "can't" do anything about it because they aren't "around" to do anything about it.

Do you consider Tesla's Countergate a potential company killer?

 

[FlatSix911]

A "fanboi" doesn't threaten a lawsuit if his power is cut.
My power gets cut, the only "awareness" I'll be raising, is that of those who cut it.
I don't care as much about a solution brought about through "outside pressure", or "the pressure of popular opinion" to bring about a solution. That may or may not get it, takes too long, leads to mixed results and is too often less efficient than direct legal pressure. If I get hit by this, then I try and get it resolved in the courts. Not on the internet trying to "stir awareness".

P85DEE ... let me give you some considered advice based on real world experience with another German car manufacturer.

The best way to get a problem fixed is to use the Sunshine Test and the power of the press to highlight the problem in a public forum.
I have been down this road with Porsche and they were forced to solve engineering defects for all owners, not just those who tried litigation.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

The extra + is for how quickly you lose $40k of functionality and value.

++ adds 1 to a numeric variable in many programming languages = increments a counter.

Ludicrous++ thus increments a counter called Ludicrous by one.

 

[P85DEE]

...

I am a bit less optimistic as I had an issue with 691 hp and addressed this discreetly with Tesla. I provided suggestions for what I felt were reasonable solutions (had me forking over another $50K) but no accommodation was made. I revisited the issue after our European friends resolved their issue and, again, was told no accommodation would be made..

So you've proven that you have no clue as to how to go about righting a wrong from a company which has done you wrong.

Thanks for this information.

It lets me know now more than ever to stay away from any and all suggestions that you may offer when it comes to the resolution of this particular matter.

 

[Andyw2100]

It is better to handle this "in house", using some of the methods I mentioned prior as opposed to spreading this across the Web for the "amusement" of detractors, and to get twisted into an even worse "story".

I attempted to handle the 691 HP issue "in-house" by writing a letter to Elon Musk and getting a bunch of people here to sign it:

Letter To Elon Musk Regarding P85D Horsepower – Discussion Thread
Letter To Elon Musk Regarding P85D Horsepower – Signature Thread Only, Please

(The letter was picked up by a couple of online sites, which, since it was not my intention, became the reason for the warning now in my sig file. It never did become "a big deal" online.)

Did attempting to keep things in-house work? Shortly after the letter was sent Tesla came out with the JB Straubel blog post, and they added corrected information to the website. They did not, however, do anything for any of the customers affected. (Later the Norwegians filed suit, resulting in a settlement.)

I think history has shown how Tesla responds in situations like these.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

So you've proven that you have no clue as to how to go about righting a wrong from a company which has done you wrong.

Thanks for this information.

It lets me know now more than ever to stay away from any and all suggestions that you may offer when it comes to the resolution of this particular matter.

I guess you are suggesting suing Tesla.

History has shown lawsuits do not necessarily force a larger settlement. Fixing this for all is very uncertain through courts. And slow. Public pressure might force an actual improvement in company policy rather than just a singular settlement.

After all, that public P85D pressure actually made Tesla stop posting HP number on their site at all. The lawsuit route resulted only in a very regional settlement.

 

[P85DEE]

In general I agree, but also feel that this has been tried already. If Tesla was showing willingness to bend to that approach this story (and others such as the P85D 691 hp) would have been different already.

I would say nobody was immediately shouting from the rooftops. A lot of folks have approached Tesla for a solution - to which the latter basically responded with a CYA disclaimer only.

Tesla could easily respond if they wanted to.



Do you consider Tesla's Countergate a potential company killer?

Indeed, it has that potential if the counter is used to cut people's power without their permission.

And if that happens, then what do we have?

A bunch of permanently weakened cars with no company to make them right.