Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits

[Lump]

Oh BTW...I've written a check already.

You made a reservation for a M3...congratulations.

 

[Garlan Garner]

You made a reservation for a M3...congratulations.

Yep and Model S as well. A long time ago.

 

[msnow]

Yes the owners have and as I've said a million times....they should do something about it. What's wrong with that?

Oh BTW...I've written a check already.

A $1,000 refundable deposit on a Model 3. Not the same.

 

[Garlan Garner]

A $1,000 refundable deposit on a Model 3. Not the same.

I'm talking about my MS.

 

[msnow]

I'm talking about my MS.

Put it in your signature. Let's see what you got.

 

[vgrinshpun]

One issue I have not seen confirmed yet is whether launch mode actually accomplishes anything on a P90D. From posts I have seen on other threads and this one the consensus seems to be that it does not (a few examples below -- could not get the quote function to work for some reason).

If that's true the main issue would seem to be for the owners who have hit the limit already.

@sorka: "I've seen no difference in comparing launch and no launch mode with a vbox"

@NSX1992: "I have tried Launch mode with no improvement therefore I use slip start for best results especially when you are racing against a Z06."

@St Charles: 2) Launch mode and slip start seem to yield similar results.

@St Charles: You bring up interesting points. I have definitely noticed that Launch control yields a bad reaction time. This actually has me a bit concerned as it would also imply that Launch mode has a short hiccup before taking off. In fact, you can see it in my graph I posted along with the timeslip.

And even for the owner that did hit the limit (it seems that Tech_guy is the only one so far?), it is not clear whether the limit affects launches only when car is in the "launch mode", as Tesla stated twice; in the email to Tech_guy and in the in-car (?) version of the manual, or any launch, regardless of whether the car was in "launch mode" or not, as experienced by Tech_guy.

There is also contradictory information about how many launches in the "launch mode" triggers the power limitation. According to @andrewket source the limit is 25, but only "perfect launches" count, i.e. the ones that result in the slightest slippage do not count because this results in traction control reducing power and the powertrain, as a result, apparently not experiencing the critical (trigger) temperature. However, as noted by Fiksegts, P90DL V3 car used by TRC has likely 100+ launches. Fiksegts mentioned that he is waiting to see if he can get powertools data from TRC, but knowing how TRC is using car for drag racing, I doubdt that 50Hp - 60Hp drop would go unnoticed by TRC. So I would conclude that he did not experienced the drop in power output. Also, I would think that when car is used for drag racing on specially prepared courses, the ratio of launches with less than perfect traction would be much less than in the wild, so it seems that if limit was indeed 25, TRC car would likely surpass it at this point.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Put it in your signature. Let's see what you got.

No. I would rather promote my Solar company and project.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Personally I don't think having skin in the game is necessary to have useful viewpoints or valid opinions on some matter. Sometimes I think opinions are overly subjective/based on subjective experiences. So, @Garlan Garner - go ahead and continue IMO. All views are IMO valuable.

 

[msnow]

No. I would rather promote my Solar company and project.

Uh huh, sure.

 

[msnow]

Personally I don't think having skin in the game is necessary to have useful viewpoints or valid opinions on some matter. Sometimes I think opinions are overly subjective/based on subjective experiences. So, @Garlan Garner - go ahead and continue IMO. All views are IMO valuable.

How about you and the "G"-man make it a PM convo?

 

[Garlan Garner]

How about you and the "G"-man make it a PM convo?

How about you and I have one also?

 

[Garlan Garner]

Uh huh, sure.

Thanks.

 

[Andyw2100]

However, as noted by Fiksegts, P90DL V3 car used by TRC has likely 100+ launches. Fiksegts mentioned that he is waiting to see if he can get powertools data from TRC, but knowing how TRC is using car for drag racing, I doubdt that 50Hp - 60Hp drop would go unnoticed by TRC. So I would conclude that he did not experienced the drop in power output. Also, I would think that when car is used for drag racing on specially prepared courses, the ratio of launches with less than perfect traction would be much less than in the wild, so it seems that if limit was indeed 25, TRC car would likely surpass it at this point.

We definitely need to hear back from fiksegts.

But one pretty obvious possibility that is not accounted for in your post above is that Tesla may have only recently implemented the counter and the limiting. If this is a recent change made by Tesla, the hundred launches made by the TRC car in the past could be irrelevant. What would matter is the number of launches made since the change--since the counter started counting.

Again--let's wait to see what fiksegts comes back with before trying to reach conclusions based on the cars he wrote about.

 

[u00mem9]

Keep up the pointless posts Garlan!

Nothing warms my heart more than Tesla's latest lie being the longest thread on TMC

 

[Garlan Garner]

Keep up the pointless posts Garlan!

Nothing warms my heart more than Tesla's latest lie being the longest thread on TMC

10-4 I will.

 

[msnow]

How about you and I have one also?

Thanks but I'll pass on that invitation.

 

[GMDC]

Trying to keep a high level view on this thread, seems a lot of time (+ reading effort) has been lost with people pushing each other to different corners, rather than focusing on finding out more facts about the issue at hand.
P.S. I do not have a P model, however It concerns me if Tesla uses such tactics/solutions which whether they help or not the customers (us), problem was that it was hidden, not disclosed upfront and not even fully clear after Tesla's communications (twitter, in-car manual or else).
Let's focus please

 

[Garlan Garner]

There are P90D's reported that have this issue.
There have been some P90D folks who reported that they haven't experienced this issue.
There is at least one 100 owner reporting the issue
However Tesla says that it was fixed in the 100.

What's true and what isn't?

I believe that this problem exists with the P90D because the company ( Tesla ) and customers attest to it. I also believe that if the company ( Tesla ) says that the upgraded car ( 100 ) does not experience this issue ( fixed ) then they don't have any thoughts on resolving this on the P90D.
So my conclusion would be this:

Its a hardware ( Component ) issue - thereby keeping it from being resolved via software. However they have used software to limit the potential hardware damage.
I don't believe Tesla is going to replace the drivetrain in all P90D's.
LaunchMode still works. Everyone can still launch their cars....so the car's instruction manual is still pertinent.

The issue seems to be the inability to access a certain amount of current from the batteries during launch mode.
I think what has to happen is to find an official document that posts what the amount current is required to be available during launch mode for all P90D's.
I have used documents such as these in developing my company as leverage to get refunds and compensation from my vendor contracts that used to establish my company.
There has to be an official document posted by Tesla concerning a Launch Mode current draw specification that can be used to go back to Tesla with.

 

[lolachampcar]

Easy.....
I x V(under load) == 691 hp

 

[vgrinshpun]

We definitely need to hear back from fiksegts.

But one pretty obvious possibility that is not accounted for in your post above is that Tesla may have only recently implemented the counter and the limiting. If this is a recent change made by Tesla, the hundred launches made by the TRC car in the past could be irrelevant. What would matter is the number of launches made since the change--since the counter started counting.

Again--let's wait to see what fiksegts comes back with before trying to reach conclusions based on the cars he wrote about.

According to Tech_Guy post, he started to experience power limitation after 8.0 update which was rolled out starting on September 22. I believe that P90D V3 started to be delivered at approximately the same time (August ?), so assumption that TRC car experienced a lot of its launches before Tesla introduced counter does not hold.