Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits

[lolachampcar]

just like Tesla was doing at the D announce..... It's good advertising that works.

 

[hostman]

... so basically promoting Tesla.

Precisely. Cue annoyed face...

 

[hmmm]

After I pointed out this discussion and asked about counters , My Tesla DS said, in writing, that I should not experience any performance restrictions with my P100DL configuration regardless of how many times I use launch mode.

Not really patting myself on the back but it's enough for me to stop going into a mental tailspin over my new p100dL.

My p90dL though.....

So, I reached out to as I have an inv p90dl and asked 1) whether my car was already in "limited" mode and if not, how far was I from triggering it since it's all news to me.

Here is the relevant part of the reply "There isn’t a counter, it does not keep track of how many launches before Launch Modes has any restrictions to limit your vehicles power."

My read: yes, it gets restricted. No, I'm not telling you how and I'm not answering your questions. So i am going to ask (nicely) again.

Has anyone received actual answers to these questions?

 

[cmorgan]

Pretty disappointed to find out that the performance upgrade I paid for is basically deactivated over time. I'm not sure I would have paid for the ludicrous upgrade if I had been aware of such a limit. I'm hoping they come clean and will either stand by the original performance numbers or buy back the ludicrous upgrade and deactivate the feature.

 

[msnow]

Quite possible and a situation we've discussed. My attorney will follow up on my letter with a lawyer letter to ensure I am protected and the conditions necessary for satisfaction, inclusive of periodic data disclosure and a host of other attorney tech speak. Any balking to conditions or deviation from the public disclaimer, and I walk. And as we've also discussed, we expect they will balk and therefore, I walk. I'm not interested in a battle.

I don't see how agreeing to their public disclosure helps you do you? From my read it gives them an out.

 

[JLan]

I'm not sure I would have paid for the ludicrous upgrade if I had been aware of such a limit. I'm hoping they come clean and will either stand by the original performance numbers or buy back the ludicrous upgrade and deactivate the feature.

I most definitely would not of purchased the ludicrous upgrade if it was limited. I think that's how most people feel.

When I bought my p90dL last year.. I had to pay extra for ludicrous. So the extra performance had a specific value. When I just purchased my p100dl.... The ludicrous was "included" with no value associated to it and it was not a selectable option. Not sure if that makes it easier or harder for tesla to take away..

When Porsche came out and said that with the Mission EV you could launch over and over again without killing thier battery like Tesla maybe they knew a bit more than we did

 

[AWDtsla]

Quite possible and a situation we've discussed. My attorney will follow up on my letter with a lawyer letter to ensure I am protected and the conditions necessary for satisfaction, inclusive of periodic data disclosure and a host of other attorney tech speak. Any balking to conditions or deviation from the public disclaimer, and I walk. And as we've also discussed, we expect they will balk and therefore, I walk. I'm not interested in a battle.

Sadly, I think this is going to be the most effective, because it's going through the sales channel.

 

[AWDtsla]

Pretty disappointed to find out that the performance upgrade I paid for is basically deactivated over time. I'm not sure I would have paid for the ludicrous upgrade if I had been aware of such a limit. I'm hoping they come clean and will either stand by the original performance numbers or buy back the ludicrous upgrade and deactivate the feature.

Given nearly every ludicrous pack will likely become limited within the warranty period, that's all of them.

So I asked this much earlier in this thread but no one answered. Does anyone know how many ludicrous models have been sold? 20,000 cars @ $10,000 = $200 million

 

[NikeWings]

I don't see how agreeing to their public disclosure helps you do you? From my read it gives them an out.

I agree with you MS and will not agree to the disclosure, thus my letter seeking clarity.
No disclosure when I ordered and now a cryptic disclosure quietly dropped into the website, with no specifics nor notification. I am not at odds with the potential need to limit, but I do want to know specifically what it is in order to make an informed decision. In re-reading I could have been more clear. If they "balk at conditions or deviation from the public disclosure" [balk at conditions or balk at clarifying their disclosure to me in order to make an informed decision], then I walk.

 

[FlatSix911]

just to clarify that was the response that I received in an email from Tesla that they used in their article. The same person has now changed their tune and said that all cars are effected including the 100. So even upgrading to the 100 I would eventually hit power reduction and counters all over again.

Got it ... you may want to contact Fred Lambert at Electrek to update the article with this critical news

 

[FlatSix911]

CraZ8
First they came for the P90DLV3, then the P90DLs, then the P100DLs but it was only when they came after my P85DL that I got pissed

I say that jokingly as I was in the same boat. The only difference for me was that I have seen enough of Tesla's shenanigans to know the P85DL was likely included.

So this may impact all Performance models ... bummer

 

[SDRick]

It is possible that the sales channel will be the catalyst and best chance for a quick resolution. New buyers are the only ones with leverage at the moment. If those with cars on order get wind of this thread, counter "gait" and closely read the new squishy disclaimer, sales could dwindle to a trickle. Anyone dropping $125-$160,000 or more may pause. A slowdown in sales would hopefully force Tesla to meet this problem head-on and with clarity for their new and existing customers.

 

[AnonNJ]

They are right, there isn't "a" counter. There are 3 counters. Real counts and they can see them. Keep on it... you need the numbers to understand how close you are.

So, I reached out to as I have an inv p90dl and asked 1) whether my car was already in "limited" mode and if not, how far was I from triggering it since it's all news to me.

Here is the relevant part of the reply "There isn’t a counter, it does not keep track of how many launches before Launch Modes has any restrictions to limit your vehicles power."

My read: yes, it gets restricted. No, I'm not telling you how and I'm not answering your questions. So i am going to ask (nicely) again.

Has anyone received actual answers to these questions?

 

[Andyw2100]

I have probably done a thousand? I've gone to car shows where I'll set up a short drag strip and take the parents and kids both ways with Launch, probably 0-30mph, and I've done over 100 in a day * 2 ways = ~200 launches in a day. So probably over the three events maybe 600 plus hundreds more of demos to clients, interested Tesla buyers, etc, etc. I rarely use launch mode on the road as it is very annoying/inconsistent to get into. Once I had a Civic pull up and want to see it and it went into some limiter mode due to both pedals being pressed and it was singularly unimpressive... (ie. the Civic was keeping up for the first couple of seconds, wtf!)

... so basically promoting Tesla.

I fixed your post:

"...so completely promoting Tesla."

 

[Godzira]

I just bought a P85D... Smh... Guess I will be watching this thread closely.

 

[bhzmark]

I have no idea, I've requested my counters which includes a launch counter but from what we have heard a few times so far is that the launch counter can be triggered in multiple ways. Launch mode, max battery mode without launch mode, or just ludicrous mode can all trigger and add to the launch counter!

The real problem here is we have no idea what the perimeters are for these counters meaning how they are coded to trigger an event. There are likely many situations that can trigger an event but without these perimeters we are all in the dark.

heres a few guess examples these are not fact just an example of what might to get you thinking...

maybe a counter is triggered every time you floor the car?
and/or
maybe a counter get triggered every time you floor the car for more then X seconds?
and/or
or maybe its triggered over a certain amperage usage...

it could be combinations as well, Event triggers could be strings of certain situations together that would trigger an event.... Basically an if than else statement...

maybe if you start at 0 mph and your flooring the car and it reaches a certan speed than event is triggered... else no count...

its all speculation at this point without the actual perimeters of these counters... How do we find this out? We need clarity from Tesla on this which they claim to provide clear communications with their customers!

I'm still waiting maybe they are sending smoke signals...

But how many times do you recall using LAUNCH MODE? Approximately?

Sorry for my confusion in posing the question without sufficient clarity but I didn't mean to ask for you to speculate about the counters.

I just wanted to you to recall from your own memory approximately how many times you engaged launch mode--pressing the brake, then the gas, then the brake, and whatever two-step foot magic is required to illuminate the LAUNCH MODE ENGAGED light?

Was it a handful of times?
Was it a dozen times?
Was it a few dozen times?
Was it 100 times?
Was it a few hundred times?
Was it a thousand times?
Was it a few thousand times?
Was it over 10,000 times?
How many times, approximately, did you use LAUNCH MODE?

Note, I am not asking about SlamThePedal Mode launches or simple WOTs or anything else. Just Launch Mode.

 

[hostman]

But how many times do you recall using LAUNCH MODE? Approximately?

Sorry for my confusion in posing the question without sufficient clarity but I didn't mean to ask for you to speculate about the counters.

I just wanted to you to recall from your own memory approximately how many times you engaged launch mode--pressing the brake, then the gas, then the brake, and whatever two-step foot magic is required to illuminate the LAUNCH MODE ENGAGED light?

Was it a handful of times?
Was it a dozen times?
Was it a few dozen times?
Was it 100 times?
Was it a few hundred times?
Was it a thousand times?
Was it a few thousand times?
Was it over 10,000 times?
How many times, approximately, did you use LAUNCH MODE?

Note, I am not asking about SlamThePedal Mode launches or simple WOTs or anything else. Just Launch Mode.

Not sure if you saw above, but my answer to that is ~1k.

 

[hill]

Wait, is TRC on 7.1? Problem emerged after more recent updates, if you're on old firmware that may insulate from issues.

@Tech_Guy - what firmware did you in?

That too raises issues. Say you don't allow update flashes. You continue on, Ludicrous launch after ludicrous launch in your 85 or 90 until something fails. Now .... who'd eat the cost of the fix.
.

 

[bhzmark]

Not sure if you saw above, but my answer to that is ~1k.

Thank you. While late to the party you quickly share useful relevant information. You are a breath of fresh air to this smoke blowing thread.

So one data point is one possibly limited P85DL has ~1k Launch Mode launches.

Another possibly limited P90DL has still unknown number of Launch Mode events.

An earlier post describes how launch mode likely puts extra stress on the powertrain, even more than a slam the pedal mode launch. For these reasons it seems wise to stop using launch mode especially when there isn't any speed benefit.

 

[Andyw2100]

That too raises issues. Say you don't allow update flashes. You continue on, Ludicrous launch after ludicrous launch in your 85 or 90 until something fails. Now .... who'd eat the cost of the fix.
.

Tesla.

The battery and drive train have a warranty for 8 years or 100,000 miles. The warranty was not conditioned upon accepting firmware updates.

Edit: It's actually 8 years and unlimited mileage, right?

Edit 2: Answered my own question--

Infinite Mile Warranty

"The Tesla Model S drive unit warranty has been increased to match that of the battery pack. That means the 85 kWh Model S, our most popular model by far, now has an 8 year, infinite mile warranty on both the battery pack and drive unit. There is also no limit on the number of owners during the warranty period."