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Pan Am Games HOV lane issues with the Tesla Model S

Discussion in 'Canada' started by Judge Advocate, Jun 10, 2015.

  1. Judge Advocate

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    With the dreaded Games coming up shortly and the temporary HOV lanes being put into place starting the end of June, will we, as owners, still be able to use our "Green" plates to drive on them with just the driver I wonder?
    I am expecting to.
     
  2. clea

    clea Member

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    answered in this post i believe ...
     
  3. wayner

    wayner Active Member

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    In another post I linked to the latest revision to the Highway Traffic Act that spells this out. I have printed this off and put it in my glove compartment as I am expecting to get pulled over by the OPP as I drive the 401 every day from Markham Rd to Bayview Ave and I will be using the temporary HOV lanes from Markham Rd to Warden Ave.
     
  4. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    The short answer is yes, but I would suggest not doing so unless absolutely necessary. The real intention of the HOV lanes are to reduce congestion after all.
     
  5. wayner

    wayner Active Member

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    And many of us disagree. The government has specifically allowed green vehicles to use the lanes so I am going to take advantage of them as much as possible. That is the reason that I got a green plate rather than getting a personalized plate.
     
  6. RAM_Eh

    RAM_Eh Member

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    Watching the press conference yesterday on the roll out of the HOV lanes they were quite clear that Green plates are allowed to use the lanes.

    I will use them if necessary but don't anticipate needing too. Unless I need to GTFO ASAP!
     
  7. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    Of course you "can" use the lanes. This kinda reminds me of the debate going on over in this thread about whether one should use Superchargers for daily charging or not. Tesla says you can use Superchargers as much as you like, but half of the participants in the thread are arguing that you "shouldn't".
     
  8. wayner

    wayner Active Member

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    Traffic along the 401 over the last few weeks from Scarborough to Yonge has been the worst that I have ever seen. I am looking forward to June 29 when I can use this, especially if the Pan Am games causes traffic to be worse than usual.
     
  9. wayner

    wayner Active Member

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    Maybe you haven't seen this very hot topic with over 120 posts in less than a day: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/48494-Supercharging-Elon-s-statement-that-Daily-Supercharging-Users-are-Receiving-Notes/page13
     
  10. Judge Advocate

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  11. allanhof

    allanhof Member

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    My commute is already horrendous and will only get worse with the games....I will be using the HOV lane if permitted by the government.
     
  12. Chrisizzle

    Chrisizzle Member

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    That is an odd thing to say. Getting my car on and off the road as quickly as possible is reducing congestion. If I cut my commute time in half, that is the same as having two people in a car.

    Most municipal carpool lanes require 3 people.
    - If we start with two people in two separate cars on the road for a 30-minute commute, that equals 30 minutes on the road per person.
    - Two people in one car for a 30-minute commute would then equal 15 minutes per person.
    - Me, by myself in the carpool lane for 15 minutes also equals 15-minutes per person.

    Granted, that would be true of any single drivers who were randomly allowed to use the HOV lanes (eg. license plates that start with 'V' and end with "4" on Tuesdays). However, green plates were selected and NOT using the HOV lanes when you can is adding to congestion unnecessarily.
     
  13. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    The original intent of the HOV lanes was to reduce congestion by reducing the number of cars on the road. The idea being that if two (or more) drivers carpooled, there would be a corresponding number of fewer vehicles on the road, and a corresponding lowering of emissions. Allowing Green Plates to use the lanes, or some scheme to let drivers with certain plate numbers use the lanes on certain days does nothing to reduce the number of cars. If that were the case, they might just as well eliminate the HOV lanes and let all traffic use all the lanes and everyone would move a bit quicker.

    This is where I'm coming from with this.

    My brother lives in an area with HOV lanes and I can remember how years ago he would get one of his kids to come with him when he made sales calls so he could use the HOV lanes. I thought that was also sketchy, even though he was in complete compliance with the letter of the law. But it did nothing to reduce the number of cars on the road. Green Plate use seems kind of like that to me.

    I'm not saying anyone here can't use the HOV lanes because that is clearly allowed as a kind of "perk" for driving an EV. I'm just saying that it kind of defeats the intent of the HOV lanes and I personally will use them sparingly, if at all for this reason.
     
  14. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    The government has decided to ALSO encourage moving to sustainable transport. Therefore I will use the lanes whenever practical. Unfortunately the opportunity presents itself about once a month.
     
  15. PoweredByRain

    PoweredByRain Member

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    Absolutely. It's supposed to be a method to encourage "high occupancy" of vehicles. Does anyone remember when the standard was 3 or more per vehicle? I had to laugh when it commonly was changed to be 2+. Most cars have seating for 5. 40% occupied is not, to my mind, a "high occupancy".

    (Good luck running an airline with a 40% load factor. :) )
     
  16. RAM_Eh

    RAM_Eh Member

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    The secondary thought process for the allowance of Green plates on the HOV lanes was to promote eco friendly transportation. It is not only for high occupancy vehicles.

    I think we qualify.
     
  17. wayner

    wayner Active Member

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    I just don't understand why taxis and limos are allowed in the HOV lanes? How does my taking a taxi, rather than driving muself or taking public transit, reduce congestion or pollution? I am pretty sure that taxis and limos are less fuel efficient than the average passenger car, even for ICE vehicles. Unlike San Fran you don't see many Prius' as taxis in T.O. And driving around two people, rather than one, will increase fuel consumption due to the added weight in the vehicle. And taking public transit would be way better on all fronts and is now an option to the airport given the UP Express.

    It might reduce the demand for parking but that is it.
     
  18. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    I think the rationale for taxis is that at least some taxi passengers may not actually own cars themselves. Yes the extra weight would minimally impact fuel use, but clearly not as much as a whole other car. Public transit buses and such are generally allowed in those lanes too. It would reduce parking congestion as you say. The program isn't perfect. Even though the intent is to reduce the number of cars, there's no way to know if the additional passengers would have otherwise been driving a car themselves in the first place. That's certainly the case with kids and others who don't even have a license.
     
  19. Bangor Bob

    Bangor Bob Member

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    Non-driving options to get to mid- and up-town Toronto from the east and west ends would be nice. Coming from the east, having to take the GO train all the way down to Union Station just to take the subway back up to mid-town is nuts.

    (Maybe it's gotten better, my TO transit experience is coming up on being 15 years old now, and pre-Sheppard line).
     
  20. Chrisizzle

    Chrisizzle Member

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    I still think a car on the road for half the time is equal to one car off the road.

    Just so I understand your view... let's agree to the existing laws and not debate the rationale of green plates in the HOV.

    You and I both leave a location in Markham by ourselves in separate Tesla's. I use highway 404's carpool lanes to the Don Valley Parkway. I then take a PanAm lane downtown. I arrive at our mutual destination in 30-minutes. As a matter of principle, you sit in traffic and double your commute time.

    While my vehicle is off the road and parked, you believe your extra 30-minutes of driving has improved congestion and the environment?

    - - - Updated - - -

    I don't understood how taxis are better for congestion either.

    Let's say two people leave their homes and go to work. If their timeline overlaps (eg. both need to be at work for 9am), there are either two cars or two taxis on the road for the same period of time.

    Now lets say two people have different timelines (eg. one arrives to work at 9am and the other at 9:30). One taxi can do the job. However, where two separate cars would only be on the road as required, the single taxi is driving empty between pick ups. So, that is worse for congestion and the environment. Under this scenario, taxis merely reduce the number of required parking spots.

    So, without carpool lanes, taxis are less efficient. With carpool lanes, they can drop passengers faster and ferry between pickups quickly. I must assume a statistician proved the net benefit cancels the extra time and distance they drive.
     

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