Pedestrians and Jaywalking (out of Market Action)

[madodel]

Report out of Arizona that an Uber self driving vehicle has killed a pedestrian

I don't understand the big news on this. According to the police report the person walked out in front of the car not in a crosswalk so it's not like the self-driving car hunted down the person... at least not yet.

Perhaps this is good news for TSLA since none are fully autonomous yet.

 

[replicant]

I don't understand the big news on this. According to the police report the person walked out in front of the car not in a crosswalk so it's not like the self-driving car hunted down the person... at least not yet.

Perhaps this is good news for TSLA since none are fully autonomous yet.

For me (a French guy usually walking/biking), the news is that the US lacks a law that allows pedestrians to cross roads outside of crosswalks when 50+ meters away from one. Why would your laws prioritize multi-ton vehicles made of metal over fragile human beings?

 

[RobStark]

For me (a French guy usually walking/biking), the news is that the US lacks a law that allows pedestrians to cross roads outside of crosswalks when 50+ meters away from one. Why would your laws prioritize multi-ton vehicles made of metal over fragile human beings?

What is the point of a crosswalk if pedestrians have the right of way everywhere?

In the US at least, if such were the case, you would have jerks walking across highways and boulevards at infinite points at a leisurely pace.

 

[Curt Renz]

For me (a French guy usually walking/biking), the news is that the US lacks a law that allows pedestrians to cross roads outside of crosswalks when 50+ meters away from one. Why would your laws prioritize multi-ton vehicles made of metal over fragile human beings?

Such laws are not US laws. They are state and local laws, and vary among those jurisdictions. However, people regularly cross outside of crosswalks, but at their own risks. It's called jaywalking, but ticketing for it is extremely rare. One must use a little common sense and concern for safety when crossing a street away from crosswalks, while cars are streaming by on major streets or highways at high speed. If people were allowed to suddenly cross anywhere, then cars would never again be moving faster than 10 mph.

 

[schonelucht]

What is the point of a crosswalk if pedestrians have the right of way everywhere?

The point of the crosswalk is to allow the cars to pass and force the pedestrians to stop. Everywhere else (at least where I live) on residential streets the car needs to yield to any pedestrian initiating a street crossing.

 

[jhm]

For me (a French guy usually walking/biking), the news is that the US lacks a law that allows pedestrians to cross roads outside of crosswalks when 50+ meters away from one. Why would your laws prioritize multi-ton vehicles made of metal over fragile human beings?

Pedestrians always have right-of-way in the US, even when they are crossing illegally. I would also point out that right-of-ways is something yielded, not something asserted. So it is not that pedestrians have the right to cross anywhere. Rather, it is that once a pedestrian is on the road, all other vehicles are required to yield right-of-way to the pedestrian.

 

[replicant]

What is the point of a crosswalk if pedestrians have the right of way everywhere?

To force pedestrians to cross at designated spots. But also to allow human beings to use their feet in dense areas instead of pushing millions of people into cars "because walking/biking isn't safe anymore".

when 50+ meters away from one

“If a pedestrian or cyclist “shows a clear intention to cross” (described as “an ostensible step forward or a hand gesture”) drivers will be required to stop for them. The only exception is where there is a designated pedestrian crossing less than 50m away.”
Source

In the US at least, if such were the case, you would have jerks walking across highways and boulevards at infinite points at a leisurely pace.

Seriously? People know how to behave. Everywhere. The law works perfectly well here in France. There is no reason why it wouldn't work in the US... because it did work in the US before… $$$$ !

You should read this: The forgotten history of how automakers invented the crime of "jaywalking"

 

[Curt Renz]

The point of the crosswalk is to allow the cars to pass and force the pedestrians to stop. Everywhere else (at least where I live) on residential streets the car needs to yield to any pedestrian initiating a street crossing.

Really? It's just the opposite in most American jurisdictions. Why would a pedestrian in your country ever try to cross at a crosswalk, if he could freely do so anywhere else? Perhaps the word "crosswalk" has a different meaning in Europe.

EDIT: I've now learned that is what is called a "crosswalk" in American English is called a "pedestrian crossing" in British English. Although we actually use both terms here in America.

 

[RobStark]

Pedestrians always have right-of-way in the US, even when they are crossing illegally.

But a driver is not criminally liable if he hits a jaywalker.

Edit: unless of course there is proof the driver intentionally targeted the jaywalker

 

[replicant]

If people were allowed to suddenly cross anywhere, then cars would never again be moving faster than 10 mph.

You cars are bizarre! Is this why US companies are leading the race for autonomy?!

In France, cars move at a normal pace even though people are legally allowed to cross roads anywhere (when more than 50m away from crosswalks). Even Ford, GM and Tesla cars.

If you ever visit Paris, PM me and I'll drive you around the Eiffel Tower in a small, zippy and silent EV. Safely.

 

[JRP3]

Why would your laws prioritize multi-ton vehicles made of metal over fragile human beings?

Why would a human being count on a law instead of their own senses to protect themselves from multi-ton vehicles made of metal?

 

[replicant]

Why would a pedestrian in your country ever try to cross at a crosswalk, if he could freely do so anywhere else?

Because le vivre ensemble.

 

[replicant]

Why would a human being count on a law instead of their own senses to protect themselves from multi-ton vehicles made of metal?

I don't count on laws to prevent me from being murdered. But I like to vote for laws that make murder illegal.

Edit: guns or not.

 

[RobStark]

I don't count on laws to prevent me from being murdered. But I like to vote for laws that make murder illegal.

Murder is by definition illegal.

 

[replicant]

Murder is by definition illegal.

I should have said "killing" then.

Jaywalking is also, by definition, illegal.

But it's telling that the Wikipedia article for jaywalking has very few non-English versions (and they almost only talk about the US): Jaywalking - Wikipedia

In the intro: "The United Kingdom does not have jaywalking laws".
Further down: "In many countries, such regulations do not exist and jaywalking is an unknown concept."

I can't get my head around the gap between American and European culture, especially when it comes to outlawing things (e.g jaywalking v gun owning).

 

[Curt Renz]

You cars are bizarre! Is this why US companies are leading the race for autonomy?!

In France, cars move at a normal pace even though people are legally allowed to cross roads anywhere (when more than 50m away from crosswalks). Even Ford, GM and Tesla cars.

Once in 1950 when I was four, I wrongly crossed mid-block the Chicago boulevard on which we lived, and a driver had to slam on the brakes causing his child to hit the windshield. Fortunately, the injury was minor. Shortly after that I began kindergarten. My mother forced me to walk nearly an entire city block (1/8 mile) to a major intersection with traffic lights and crosswalks, so I could cross that boulevard safely and go to school a half-sized block after a left turn from there, and then another left turn for nearly a full block. It made my walk several times as long as it would otherwise have been, but I understood the necessity. My younger brothers and I did that the whole time we went to school while living there.

So other countries have different laws. Thanks for letting me know. I'll have to consider that if I visit Europe. Of course you will have to consider that when you come here.

 

[replicant]

So other countries have different laws. Thanks for letting me know. I'll have to consider that if I visit Europe. Of course you will have to consider that when you come here.

I will. Thanks for sharing your story and sorry for derailing the thread.

I added a link to my initial post that better explain the American exception about the whole thing The forgotten history of how automakers invented the crime of "jaywalking"

And now back to market action.

 

[voip-ninja]

 

[replicant]

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