PEM, motor gets too hot -- fans failed

[Doug_G]

Yeah, this is weird... If the new system cools the PEM better and PEM overheats are quite common in warmer climates (heck I've had a few and NorCal isn't Houston) you'd think they'd replace the hot weather owners too. Which means they really need to do them all. Perhaps they're just prioritizing the cold weather folks over the winter and they'll roll it out to the rest of us as we come in for our annuals or whatever.

I'm pretty sure they're doing all of them, but prioritizing cold weather locations simply because they HIGHLY prioritize things that disable the car completely. Cold weather = salt = dead fans = dead car. Warm weather = reduced power = can wait a bit.

 

[W.Petefish]

I'm pretty sure they're doing all of them, but prioritizing cold weather locations simply because they HIGHLY prioritize things that disable the car completely. Cold weather = salt = dead fans = dead car. Warm weather = reduced power = can wait a bit.

However here it is more like: Hot Weather + Dust + Debris + One rain/wet spot in road = ceased up fans = dead fans = dead car.

 

[cinergi]

Cinergy when you say cut off the ends of some bolts, did they actually go in there with a grinder with cut-off wheel? Wouldn't it be easier to just replace them with different bolts?

What material is the shroud made of? Does it look like it will keep salt spray out of there? Like the stuff the car in front of you kicks up on the highway that basically goes everywhere?

you're probably rolling on snows right now but I'm curious if the new sway bar changes anything performance wise.

Oh and thanks for posting all these pics. I've been really curious. In case you're too busy to respond, no prob I'm scheduled for later this week.

Yup, cut them off. I'm assuming the other end of the bolt was too difficult to access.

The shroud is a single large metal piece. I didn't actually handle it, but it's pretty substantial.

I am indeed running snows. I've not yet detected any difference in handling.

 

[cinergi]

You say 5-6 hours for installation? That's strange, european Roadsters are good and done in 2 hours. My ranger needed ~3 hours, but that's because it was the first time ever he did the work.
The fan is louder, but you will become accostumed with it. The PEM cooling now is really strong, just as cinergi said it cools it down in seconds from the third to the first bar. Motor is now the number 1 heating "issue".

Might depend on how many people or where it's done / tools available. I know the tech was struggling a bit because the car wasn't up on a lift and also ran into issues getting things lined up to get all the screws in and whatnot. Now that I think about it, we lost some time to pulling logs, too (the USB stick needed to be held in).

 

[cinergi]

Ever seen temps like these while driving 70 MPH on the highway?

I presume that the fan for the motor's running pretty strong which has the side-effect of keeping the PEM cold (since it's now one motor for both).

 

[Doug_G]

My fans and HID lights were installed today. For some reason the car (well really the laptop) decided to be cantankerous about the bleed test, so that took a bit of extra time. Installing the HID lamps took quite a bit longer than the fan install, and most of that time was spent getting the wheel liners out (I have the older plastic ones, which are more trouble). Probably didn't help that he was doing it on the floor of my garage. Altogether everything took almost 7 hours.

The first picture shows the modified sway bar going around the newly installed motor assembly.

The reason they need to cut out four studs is that there were originally eight, to hold in two separate fan units. The center four studs would end up being in the middle of the motor, so they have to go. They have a rather noisy tool that cuts through them like butter - took only a couple of minutes to do all of them.

The orange colored bar along the bottom is a rubber piece. It forms a seal, but also moves the bottom panel of the car downwards just a hair to make a little more room for the fan assembly. I suppose this reduces ground clearance very slightly in the rear, but I doubt you'd ever notice... besides, the car always bottoms out at the front first. :redface:

The motor assembly is mounted on a pretty solid looking aluminum panel, and is attached with small spacers. Once the motor assembly is installed, a shell is placed around it. There are different versions of the shell for 2.0 and 2.5 cars.

The same bolts that hold the sway bar also hold the shell, which extends all the way down to the bottom panel, where there are rubber seals. Air enters a gap around the top of the box. Junk swirling around under the car doesn't make it up that high, so it keeps away from the fans.

The new motor is better sealed, and it is quite a bit larger than the original motors. There are very large impellers on either side, one for the traction motor and one for the PEM. They deliver quite a bit more air than the original fans, but are a bit noisier.

Both of the original fan cables are connected into a single Y cable. There are diodes in the lines, so if the car powers up either the PEM fan wire or the motor fan wire, the single motor gets the power and spins.

 

[Dragon]

Might depend on how many people or where it's done / tools available. I know the tech was struggling a bit because the car wasn't up on a lift and also ran into issues getting things lined up to get all the screws in and whatnot. Now that I think about it, we lost some time to pulling logs, too (the USB stick needed to be held in).

That's it. My car was on a lift, that should help a lot.

Now that we know the new fan is more powerful and it turns on if the motor OR the PEM is to hot... do you think you'll get a noticeable bit of range reduction?

 

[Doug_G]

Now that we know the new fan is more powerful and it turns on if the motor OR the PEM is to hot... do you think you'll get a noticeable bit of range reduction?

Nah, the fan power consumption is negligible.

 

[Jaff]

Thanks for posting the pics Doug! :smile: My car was done at the Mississauga service center & I couldn't hang around to see the upgrades being performed in person.

 

[cinergi]

Thanks for posting the pics Doug! :smile: My car was done at the Mississauga service center & I couldn't hang around to see the upgrades being performed in person.

Hrm, does this mean there's an advantage of being too far from a service center which means I get to watch them do their work? :smile:

 

[Doug_G]

Hrm, does this mean there's an advantage of being too far from a service center which means I get to watch them do their work? :smile:

Uh, yeah, I guess it is an advantage, although it can get expensive. At least this time I wasn't paying Ranger fees. :smile:

The Rangers always seem to enjoy chatting while they do their work, and I learn the occasional interesting tidbit along the way.

 

[dsm363]

I love having the rangers come out and watching them work. Of course I'd rather not have to have my car worked on but if they do, it's fun to watch what they're doing and ask questions.

 

[doug]

Both of the original fan cables are connected into a single Y cable. There are diodes in the lines, so if the car powers up either the PEM fan wire or the motor fan wire, the single motor gets the power and spins.

So no changes to the firmware?

 

[hcsharp]

So no changes to the firmware?

Yes they have to do a firmware update. I'm curious if anyone else noticed any other changes from the new firmware? My VDS goes blank sooner after I leave the car. It used to stay on almost 24 hrs after driving or charging.

Mine was done Tuesday night, a day before it was scheduled. I had to work so I couldn't watch. Took about 2.5 hrs. I think it's quieter than the old fans. I'm surprised some people find it noisier. The shroud is a much needed design improvement. I asked if I could keep the old fans as a spare "just in case". The answer was no and apparently I wasn't the first person to ask!

 

[doug]

I think it's quieter than the old fans. I'm surprised some people find it noisier.

Do you use hearing aids? They (or your own hearing) might be responding to different frequencies.

 

[Doug_G]

So no changes to the firmware?

I was told the firmware update they did on the last Ranger last visit was to support the new fans. So I was surprised that they used a Y cable. I have no idea what the firmware change actually did...

We have some nice weather so I thought I'd take my Roadster out of storage mode and drive it today. Last night I charged it and the fans did start up - I gotta say it's significantly noisier. Nowhere near as loud as when the A/C turns on, but they've got a pretty distinct hum, whereas the old fans just made an air rushing sound. I'm hoping it just sounded loud because the car was in the garage.

On the bright side it's not as audible inside the car.

 

[doug]

I gotta say it's significantly noisier.

How about pitch? Do you think it's spinning faster?
Does look like the fan motor has a nice resonator box now.

 

[Doug_G]

How about pitch? Do you think it's spinning faster?
Does look like the fan motor has a nice resonator box now.

I don't know how fast the old motors spun, because you really could only hear the impeller (air rushing sound), not the motor itself. It's a little more of a "throaty" sound now, and I think you're actually hearing the motor.

I don't know if the motor is variable speed - wouldn't be surprised since the A/C fans are - but it was a fairly low frequency sound. So for all I know it might be turning slower.

Despite it being winter I drove my Roadster to work today. Roads are dry and I wanted to try the new HIDs on the way home. But it's a little below freezing and if the fans have come on while driving I've not noticed it (they're not nearly as obvious inside the car as outside).

 

[Jaff]

No...it means my boss is a hard-ass and made me get back to work! :wink::biggrin:

Hrm, does this mean there's an advantage of being too far from a service center which means I get to watch them do their work? :smile:

 

[Doug_G]

No...it means my boss is a hard-ass and made me get back to work! :wink::biggrin:

Yeah, my boss told me to go home and watch.