Petition to rollback 5.8s suspension behavior modification at high speeds

[znino]

The original height settings were set by Tesla and everyone just accepted them as-is. They were what they were. Why didn't I see anyone complaining that they should have been lower? Better for look. Better for aerodynamics. My point is that people are just complaining about there being a "Change". People are always adverse to change. Thats just they way it is and i, for one, am not going to lose sleep over a small change on the height of my car. Like any of the other options available, when they do put it back as an option, I will decide which height to drive at. Until then, if I lose 5 miles of range on a trip because of it (and nobody really knows what the real impact is) and this makes or breaks the trip then I probably shouldn't have been making that trip anyway. All it takes is an exit to be closed because of construction to add 20 miles to your route. Hope nobody cuts things that close

 

[ToddRLockwood]

I'll be interested to see whether the eventual "manual control" really gets us back to the original low setting on the highway. Prior to 5.8, I could feel improved stability in low mode. The car felt more planted. Even a 1/2 inch lower ride height can make a noticeable difference in handling.

 

[JohnnyMac]

Sorry, really don't feel that a petition is warranted or necessary here. I trust that this will be resolved by Tesla.

 

[jasona]

I would agree there is a very noticeable difference in handling and breaking from the standard to low ride setting. On 5.8 the car simply feels unstable at high speed.

 

[brianman]

I would agree there is a very noticeable difference in handling and breaking from the standard to low ride setting. On 5.8 the car simply feels unstable at high speed.

What are you defining as "high speed"?

 

[kendallpb]

I'll be interested to see whether the eventual "manual control" really gets us back to the original low setting on the highway. Prior to 5.8, I could feel improved stability in low mode. The car felt more planted. Even a 1/2 inch lower ride height can make a noticeable difference in handling.

It's unclear from Elon's post. Actually, he only says we'll get some control over ride height changes. Whether the 5/16" change from previous will remain, or highway "low" will be what it was before...we'll find out in January.

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The original height settings were set by Tesla and everyone just accepted them as-is. They were what they were. Why didn't I see anyone complaining that they should have been lower? Better for look. Better for aerodynamics.

This is disingenuous for a few reasons. Many of us test drove the car, including under strong acceleration and at highway speeds. How many times have folks around here said that the test drive is what finally sold them, and told friends that they should just test drive it and they'll be sold? A lot. I've said the latter, myself.

Now, whether this change (which some notice and others don't--well, ride impressions are always subjective) would've affected any purchasers, who knows.

I doubt you tracked all commentary over the past 1.5 years, looking for complaints it should've been lower than originally. Heh, it's an internet forum; odds are that someone did say that! ;-)

My point is that people are just complaining about there being a "Change". People are always adverse to change.

All change is good.

Thats just they way it is and i, for one, am not going to lose sleep over a small change on the height of my car. Like any of the other options available, when they do put it back as an option, I will decide which height to drive at. Until then, if I lose 5 miles of range on a trip because of it (and nobody really knows what the real impact is) and this makes or breaks the trip then I probably shouldn't have been making that trip anyway. All it takes is an exit to be closed because of construction to add 20 miles to your route. Hope nobody cuts things that close

I can agree with that last! :-D And speaking of losing sleep, why am I on this forum so late? (Just kidding; I'm a night owl--definitely not losing sleep over this.)

 

[jasona]

What are you defining as "high speed"?

The best thing I can say to that, is drive as fast or slow as you want and see how the car performs. To me the car is unstable at the standard ride height while driving at what I call higher speeds or pushing the limited of what this performance car can do. This car's 0-60 time put in the super car league, it truly needs the handling performance to match. From what I can feel it seems to be producing far less down force and in the corners it seems to have large amount of body roll. Both of those statement were not true in 5.6. Under heavy braking at high speeds the car has a sorta speed wobble. That if the car was lower it could leverage the greater downforce and several reduce these effects as it was in 5.6.

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This might be a strong statement, but if I was test driving this car today I would pass on the car.

 

[brianman]

@jasona - I'm confused. You made an assertion about the car at "high speed". I can't evaluate that statement without a number or at least a range.

Do you mean 700mph (with rocket boosters)? Then I'd agree.
Do you mean 20mph? Then I'd strongly disagree.
Do you mean 80mph or less? Then I'd disagree; my car doesn't feel unstable to me at those speeds with < 5.8 or 5.8 firmware.

"What about 81+mph?" I don't get to explore that much so I don't have a good feel for whether it's stable or not.

 

[CanuckS#69]

I would agree there is a very noticeable difference in handling and breaking from the standard to low ride setting. On 5.8 the car simply feels unstable at high speed.

How exactly does ride height affect braking?

 

[Andrew]

From what I can feel it seems to be producing far less down force and in the corners it seems to have large amount of body roll.

Just to rule this out: Have you checked your tire pressure recently? I've noticed that even 2 or 3 PSI low makes a huge difference in the body roll on our 85.

 

[bluetinc]

The original height settings were set by Tesla and everyone just accepted them as-is. They were what they were. Why didn't I see anyone complaining that they should have been lower? Better for look. Better for aerodynamics. My point is that people are just complaining about there being a "Change". People are always adverse to change. Thats just they way it is and i, for one, am not going to lose sleep over a small change on the height of my car. Like any of the other options available, when they do put it back as an option, I will decide which height to drive at. Until then, if I lose 5 miles of range on a trip because of it (and nobody really knows what the real impact is) and this makes or breaks the trip then I probably shouldn't have been making that trip anyway. All it takes is an exit to be closed because of construction to add 20 miles to your route. Hope nobody cuts things that close

Many of the professional drivers and car testers tested the car as it was configured. I was luck enough to speak directly with some of the Motor Trend evaluators who unanimously ranked the Model S number one. One of the many accolades that they bestowed on the S was how sure footed and solid it feels at high speed. In their case they specifically were discussing 80-133 mph. Are you sure that they would have been as impressed with the current settings?

@jasona - I'm confused. You made an assertion about the car at "high speed". I can't evaluate that statement without a number or at least a range.

Do you mean 700mph (with rocket boosters)? Then I'd agree.
Do you mean 20mph? Then I'd strongly disagree.
Do you mean 80mph or less? Then I'd disagree; my car doesn't feel unstable to me at those speeds with < 5.8 or 5.8 firmware.

"What about 81+mph?" I don't get to explore that much so I don't have a good feel for whether it's stable or not.

Brianman,

On my car, I notice the difference between 70-80 mph. Unstable would be too strong a word for me to use to describe what I feel, I would stick to saying increased body roll and a lack of solid planting. I would never suggest that one could pop up to 100 to set the car in low mode on the highways in the US, but perhaps someone heading out to a track wouldn't mind spending a few laps testing the difference themselves.


As a general comment to this thread,

I am happy to concede that many everyday drivers will not test or even perhaps feel the difference of this change in their everyday driving depending on both their sensitivity and their driving style. Perhaps those that don't feel the difference would be willing to concede that some of us do, and us asking to down-rev to 5.6 is not treason against Tesla.

Peter

 

[Doug_G]

How exactly does ride height affect braking?

The higher center of gravity would cause a little more weight transfer onto the front wheels. But it's a pretty small height difference so the effect would be small.

 

[brianman]

On my car, I notice the difference between 70-80 mph. Unstable would be too strong a word for me to use to describe what I feel ....

I am happy to concede that many everyday drivers will not test or even perhaps feel the difference of this change in their everyday driving depending on both their sensitivity and their driving style. Perhaps those that don't feel the difference would be willing to concede that some of us do, and us asking to down-rev to 5.6 is not treason against Tesla.

Here we agree.

Where we don't agree is on the request to downgrade being worth anyone's time (owners or Tesla's).

 

[ACDriveMotor]

I think downgrade is a loaded word. If you are coming from 4.5 it sounds like 5.8 is a big net win. On the other hand if you are coming from 5.6 it seems far less clear. I can't tell if there are any any upgrades in 5.8 if you are coming from 5.6. Could someone with 5.8 share whether the release notes speak to acceleration, regen or suspension changes? I think I am mostly over the suspension change but it would be nice to see official wording around the other two.

I have in general taken a step back from this and related threads to reflect on things. So far I have stayed on 5.6 because I have no issues with it and love my car. If someone told me it was unsafe to stay on 5.6 I would upgrade right away. However Elon's message says the car is safe and I believe him. I don't recall him saying the car was unsafe prior to 5.8, nor that it is safe safe only with the latest software update.

Nevertheless I am considering an upgrade to 5.8 this weekend because, despite the opinions of some in congress, stalling is not progress and it is not winning. Maybe I will go test drive a car with 5.8 to move beyond my own reluctance.

It is sad to see the tension that these changes have caused. So I hope we all agree that:

- We want TMC to be a successful company
- We love the mission of TMC
- We love our cars
- We love the idea of improvements to our car over time
- We wish to thwart those that would tear down TMC

We should be able to agree with those ideals and still respectfully disagree with how well TMC has handled elements of this roll-out.

 

[rbt3]

I had 5.6 and about a week later got 5.8, and honestly could not tell a difference in highway driving until I read about the lockout of lowering at highway speeds. I will say I was a little angry/upset that the change in suspension would occur before I downloaded the new software update. I have been downloading new updates as soon as they become available as I trusted Tesla to give me something better in each update, this is the first time I think I was wrong. The lowered stance at highway speeds increases stability and range and has improved aerodynamic efficiency, and many other cars with air suspension (Porsche Cayenne,Panamera, etc) do the same thing with no reason to roll back good technology because of mis-informed media/public hype over a false issue of fire hazard. We all know the statistics tell us the Tesla Model S is probably the SAFEST car on the road in relation to fire hazards and all other road hazards based on the currently available data. There was NO GOOD REASON to roll back the great technology we all had in our cars before 5.8 update. I will now wait awhile and read this forum more closely before I add any new updates, and I have lost some confidence in Tesla. The company should never allow gossip or bad information to sway what they already know in terms of the safety of their products. I have always known that if I hit a metal or other hard object at highway speeds in my car, there may be a problem, including a fire. I feel more safe knowing this fact, and driving in my MS than any other car I have ever owned.

 

[Krugerrand]

There was NO GOOD REASON to roll back the great technology we all had in our cars before 5.8 update.

Yes, there was...it's called the NHTSA. Also, before you get too upset, there's suppose to be another firmware update in the new year that will give you the option of varying your height as you deem necessary and that unequivocably would be an improvement. Deep breath.

 

[bluetinc]

Now wait, the NHTSA did not ask, or even suggest that Tesla raise the height or remove lowering at speed. In fact, they specifically stated that this move by Tesla has no bearing on their investigation.

Also, history has shown that we should neither count on a timeline given quickly, or that the loose statements we have been given mean what we individually want. In this case that would mean that we would have the setting back to where they were pre 5.8. Even now, when the car is parked and it is placed in low, it does not go nearly as low as it use to. So even the low setting of 5.8 is not the same as the low setting of 5.6 regardless of highway lowering. Could you direct anyone to a clear statement that establishes that we will get exactly what we had at 5.6 but with extra control? I think now is exactly the time to make clear to Tesla what we as Owners expect, especially with respect to communication, not wait until January comes and goes only to be disappointed.

Peter

PS, as a side note, I would much prefer to go back to 4.5 (I went from 4.5->5.8) and wait there until January rather than have 5.8 on my car.

Yes, there was...it's called the NHTSA. Also, before you get too upset, there's suppose to be another firmware update in the new year that will give you the option of varying your height as you deem necessary and that unequivocably would be an improvement. Deep breath.

 

[ACDriveMotor]

@Blue, what you want is 5.6, not 4.5. The 5.6 release has all of the upgrades of 5.8 with none of the downgrades.

 

[Krugerrand]

Now wait, the NHTSA did not ask, or even suggest that Tesla raise the height or remove lowering at speed. In fact, they specifically stated that this move by Tesla has no bearing on their investigation.

You are correct, but perception is a powerful thing and just having the NHTSA specifically mention it has no bearing...well...basically, if you have to say it, you've been thinking about it. If the NHTSA isn't involved, whether via their own actions or the request of Tesla, that firmware update never happens.

 

[brianman]

@Blue, what you want is 5.6, not 4.5. The 5.6 release has all of the upgrades of 5.8 with none of the downgrades.

Incorrect:
Model S software/firmware changelog - Tesla Motors Club - Enthusiasts & Owners Forum

More specifically...

I wanted the new Navigation (5.0) and the TPMS reset capability (5.8) but nothing in 5.6 was in my "need" list.