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PG&E NBC / kWh going up every month?

sorka

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2015
9,457
7,766
Merced, CA
My NBCs per kWH are edging up every single month so far. Started out at just over 2 cents and is now over 2.2 cents. Is it variable or based on other factors or is it just simply going up?

Capture.PNG
 
Not every month, but the tariffs do change every 2-3 months. Since the tariff change always takes effect on the 1st of the month and PG&E billing cycles are not tied to the first of the month it can artificially look like it is changing every month as some NBCs are from the old tariff and some from the new tariff.

DatePublic Purpose Program
(PPP)
Nuclear Decommissioning
(ND)
Wildfire Fund
DWR
Competition Transition
(OCF)
NBC Total
10/1/2020​
0.01296​
0.00101​
0.00580​
0.00096​
0.02073​
1/1/2021​
0.01435​
0.00093​
0.00580​
0.00004​
0.02112​
3/1/2021​
0.01575​
0.00093​
0.00580​
0.00004​
0.02252​
 
  • Informative
Reactions: BGbreeder and sorka

sorka

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2015
9,457
7,766
Merced, CA
Not every month, but the tariffs do change every 2-3 months. Since the tariff change always takes effect on the 1st of the month and PG&E billing cycles are not tied to the first of the month it can artificially look like it is changing every month as some NBCs are from the old tariff and some from the new tariff.

DatePublic Purpose Program
(PPP)
Nuclear Decommissioning
(ND)
Wildfire Fund
DWR
Competition Transition
(OCF)
NBC Total
10/1/2020​
0.01296​
0.00101​
0.00580​
0.00096​
0.02073​
1/1/2021​
0.01435​
0.00093​
0.00580​
0.00004​
0.02112​
3/1/2021​
0.01575​
0.00093​
0.00580​
0.00004​
0.02252​

Interesting. Still an increase of 10% in 5 months. Are these regularly scheduled increases or are they taken case by case? Is there a cap? Could they just eventually raise the NBCs to 20 cents kwh forcing us with powerwalls to just switch over to self consumption and ditching peak rate sell back?
I'm going to have to update my dashboard to add a table and index the REST data through that instead of assuming fixed values.
 
Interesting. Still an increase of 10% in 5 months. Are these regularly scheduled increases or are they taken case by case? Is there a cap? Could they just eventually raise the NBCs to 20 cents kwh forcing us with powerwalls to just switch over to self consumption and ditching peak rate sell back?
I'm going to have to update my dashboard to add a table and index the REST data through that instead of assuming fixed values.
I think that all four of these components that make up the NBCs are set by the California PUC and not by PG&E. These components are also in all of the other tariffs (E-TOU-C, E-TOU-D, EV2A, etc), so any increase impacts every customer and impacts non-solar accounts more than solar accounts.

I have two Powerwalls and I'm set to the "Cost Savings" mode. This powers the house through the Peak period with all of the solar going to the grid. However, in the morning all of the solar is going to the Powerwalls to recharge and I would very much like to have the solar go first to the house loads and then to the Powerwalls to reduce the pull from the grid. I don't know why this isn't the behavior in "Cost Savings".
 

sorka

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2015
9,457
7,766
Merced, CA
I think that all four of these components that make up the NBCs are set by the California PUC and not by PG&E. These components are also in all of the other tariffs (E-TOU-C, E-TOU-D, EV2A, etc), so any increase impacts every customer and impacts non-solar accounts more than solar accounts.

I have two Powerwalls and I'm set to the "Cost Savings" mode. This powers the house through the Peak period with all of the solar going to the grid. However, in the morning all of the solar is going to the Powerwalls to recharge and I would very much like to have the solar go first to the house loads and then to the Powerwalls to reduce the pull from the grid. I don't know why this isn't the behavior in "Cost Savings".

I thought only solar customers were paying the NBCs. i.e. I'm paying more per kwh that I take off the grid than if I didn't have solar at all.
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
7,170
7,117
Los Altos, CA
NBCs are also billed for every kWh you take from the grid, not just your net kWh.

If you look at your black and white bill, you will see tables "Current Month Meter Information" and "Billing TOU Energy". The Channel IDs that end in A are your grid take quantities and your Channel IDs that end in C are your grid feed in quantities. I believe you should be billed NBCs on all the A channel usage.
 

sorka

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2015
9,457
7,766
Merced, CA
NBCs are also billed for every kWh you take from the grid, not just your net kWh.

If you look at your black and white bill, you will see tables "Current Month Meter Information" and "Billing TOU Energy". The Channel IDs that end in A are your grid take quantities and your Channel IDs that end in C are your grid feed in quantities. I believe you should be billed NBCs on all the A channel usage.

I know that. I'm only calculating NBCs on >= 0 grid usage for each hour. But my question was back to the solar vs non solar customers. I thought solar customers are not charged NBCs? i.e I am paying a little over 2 cents / kwh for every kwh I use from the grid that I didn't pay before I got solar.
 

getakey

Active Member
Jan 28, 2020
1,736
629
95762
I think that all four of these components that make up the NBCs are set by the California PUC and not by PG&E. These components are also in all of the other tariffs (E-TOU-C, E-TOU-D, EV2A, etc), so any increase impacts every customer and impacts non-solar accounts more than solar accounts.

I have two Powerwalls and I'm set to the "Cost Savings" mode. This powers the house through the Peak period with all of the solar going to the grid. However, in the morning all of the solar is going to the Powerwalls to recharge and I would very much like to have the solar go first to the house loads and then to the Powerwalls to reduce the pull from the grid. I don't know why this isn't the behavior in "Cost Savings".
How would going to house first and then PWs reduce your grid pull? You want to charge PWs when rates are the lowest and discharge during high rates. Thats what cost savings does.
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
7,170
7,117
Los Altos, CA
I know that. I'm only calculating NBCs on >= 0 grid usage for each hour. But my question was back to the solar vs non solar customers. I thought solar customers are not charged NBCs? i.e I am paying a little over 2 cents / kwh for every kwh I use from the grid that I didn't pay before I got solar.
NBCs are a "feature" of the NEM2 tariff. Anyone on that tariff, solar or powerwall only, would pay those charges. If you don't have net metering, or you are on NEM1, you don't pay those charges.
 

sorka

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2015
9,457
7,766
Merced, CA
NBCs are a "feature" of the NEM2 tariff. Anyone on that tariff, solar or powerwall only, would pay those charges. If you don't have net metering, or you are on NEM1, you don't pay those charges.

That's exactly my point which conflicts with the statement ".... so any increase impacts every customer and impacts non-solar accounts more than solar accounts."
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
7,170
7,117
Los Altos, CA
That's exactly my point which conflicts with the statement ".... so any increase impacts every customer and impacts non-solar accounts more than solar accounts."
The specific tariff components that you pay as NBCs are a normal part of everyone's rates. You just can't avoid them by offsetting with your own generation. Since non-NEM customers don't generate, they just pay them normally with every kWh that they use.
 
The specific tariff components that you pay as NBCs are a normal part of everyone's rates. You just can't avoid them by offsetting with your own generation. Since non-NEM customers don't generate, they just pay them normally with every kWh that they use.
Right, the four NBC components Public Purpose Programs, Wildfire Fund, Nuclear Decommissioning and Competition Transition charges are also charges that make up the full rate tariffs along with the 6 others including the Conservation Incentive Adjustment, Transmission, Transmission Rate Adjustments, Reliability Services, Energy Cost Recovery Amount and New System Generation Charge.

The kWh that we import from the grid that are offset by our exports only are charged the 4 of the 10 charges, the kWh that are not offset are charged all 10 plus the generation charge for the TOU. Non-solar customers are always paying the full 10 plus the generation charge.

E-TOU-C Tariff - https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-TOU-C.pdf
E-TOU-D Tariff - https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-TOU-D.pdf
EV2 Tariff - https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHEDS_EV2 (Sch).pdf

e-tou-c.png
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: BGbreeder
How would going to house first and then PWs reduce your grid pull? You want to charge PWs when rates are the lowest and discharge during high rates. Thats what cost savings does.
The rates are the lowest in the morning when your Powerwalls need to be charged from the peak/night discharge. Sending the solar to the house load first and then to the Powerwall reduces the kWh that are imported and subject to NBCs.

My system is generating 40-50 kWh per day right now and I am using 10-15kWh per day. During the 4:00-9:00pm peak period my Powerwalls discharge 2-4 kWh that needs to be replaced by solar the next day. While the Powerwalls are charging, I am importing kWh from the grid that are subject to NBCs. If the solar went to the house load first and then to the Powerwalls then I would avoid the NBCs and save additional costs.
 

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