Plaid 0 to 60 and quarter mile 1.99

[RobDickinson]

1ft rollout is only a standard in USA none of the other countries include it on the 0-60/0-100 times afik

 

[Spec C]

I’m actually almost more interested to see what it can do in plaid mode without drag strip mode enabled.

Also hoping brooks gets a 60-130 time.

 

[MagnusMako]

Oh, let’s disagree on that one.

The roll out was instituted for the 1/4 mile drag race where a 1 foot difference introduces an error of 1/1320. That’s an error of 0.076%. It was done to compensate for differing driver reaction times and it allows one to start the timer when the front tire clears the light beam.

The problem is that the Tesla will be traveling at 6 MPH at the end of that first foot so that roll out means you are measuring the time it takes for the car to accelerate from 6 MPH to 60 MPH, for a speed increase of 54 MPH, not 60 MPH. It’s an error of over 10%. The quarter mile has an introduced error of 0.076%. A 10% error is 132 times higher. Remember they report the time as accurate to 3 significant figures, accurate to 1/100 of a second.

So is knowingly misreporting the reduced time it takes the car to accelerate to 54 MPH as the time it takes to accelerate to 60 MPH a cheat? Damn right it is.

And if you justify it by saying “everyone does it”, “it’s the standard”, “they have to do it to compare to other cars”, that’s just crap. If the car won’t accelerate from a standstill to 60 mph in 1.99 seconds, as they say it will, then it’s a lie.

The people at Road and Track know it’s inappropriate to introduce a fixed distance error to a non fixed distance measurement. They know it is dead wrong and they do it anyway. It generates revenue. Who does it hurt? It hurts the person who spends $129,000 and finds out the car won’t even come close to what was promised.

The car is awesome. It deserves better. Rename the roll out time. Don’t call it 0-60, call it “roll out to 60”. 0-60 is absolutely defined as standstill to a speed of 60 MPH. If you say the car will do that in 1.99 seconds and you absolutely know that it won’t, you are lying.

As long as Tesla informs the public of *how* they are testing, it doesn't really matter if they call it "0-60" or not and I don't see it as a big deal. They can still make the claim and it's essentially apples to apples industry comparison against other cars. If testing methods and variables are kept equal - it's still a scientifically equal comparison. Which is the whole point as no other production car has achieved a 0-60 using that same 1' rollout method in under 2 seconds. And even if you want to be pedantic about it, I highly doubt most people are going to care much less notice that 5 mph difference in their chest in that fraction of a second. Saying it "hurts the person" is hard for me to see having any substance when people are looking at buying the car. If you care that much about the actual 0-60 not being sub 2 second, then perhaps the car is not meant for you. And that's perfectly okay - I imagine there is already quite high demand for this car compared to other cars in it's price class, let alone one's much higher.

 

[Jmolloy3]

The traction at launch profoundly affects power delivery to the wheels. Any slip at all and it pulls power and and you're screwed. As such, no one should expect anything close to 2 seconds flat unless it's a prepped track (with fresh, sticky tires), which the Fremont test track is clearly not. Same story with youtubers posting launches on public roads. Crap roads and street tires, and It will be closer to 2.5-3.0 secs.

 

[D.E.]

As long as Tesla informs the public of *how* they are testing, it doesn't really matter if they call it "0-60" or not and I don't see it as a big deal. They can still make the claim and it's essentially apples to apples industry comparison against other cars. If testing methods and variables are kept equal - it's still a scientifically equal comparison. Which is the whole point as no other production car has achieved a 0-60 using that same 1' rollout method in under 2 seconds. And even if you want to be pedantic about it, I highly doubt most people are going to care much less notice that 5 mph difference in their chest in that fraction of a second. Saying it "hurts the person" is hard for me to see having any substance when people are looking at buying the car. If you care that much about the actual 0-60 not being sub 2 second, then perhaps the car is not meant for you. And that's perfectly okay - I imagine there is already quite high demand for this car compared to other cars in it's price class, let alone one's much higher.

A pedant is a person who is excessively concerned with formalism, accuracy, and precision, or one who makes an ostentatious and arrogant show of learning.

Well, thank you for that.

I’ll wager your background isn’t in anything scientific, medical, chemical, related to engineering, etc., There are a lot of us that actually depend on accuracy of measurement, and who actually pay attention to research and to analysis of data, and by extension, the honesty of those reporting. So do I object to the wanton misrepresentation of data? Yup.

And you, my friend, are free to ignore the more cerebral aspects of what you’re told. But recognize there are those of us who will look at information, and some of us will speak up when car journalists make gross errors, car manufacturer marketing teams knowingly choose to capitalize on those errors, and when confronted, apply a mystical masquerade of “them’s the standards”.

Well, those aren’t my standards.

 

[BigNick]

What I get out of all of this, the faster speeds the car can achieve in that first foot of movement means the less accurate a 0-60 time is when the rollout is subtracted.
So a 1987 Yugo might be getting measured from 0.3 MPH to 60 MPH and not even gain 0.02 seconds, but the Tesla instant torque is good for a shaving of about 0.25 seconds.
Which might explain why I've never seen anything under 3.25 seconds when I've tried to time my own P85DL myself (which would include human error.)

 

[2101Guy]

What I can add (a bit) to this, that while the LR and Plaid may seem to be not THAT far apart 0-60 (assuming that the LR truly is ~2.8 0-60 and assuming that the Plaid in non-draglaunch mode is most likely closer to 2.3 or 2.4 0-60)... I can say that as someone who has a 2017 non performance S (90D) who has had a loaner P85 once? When driving them back to back with both at about 90% state of charge? (and the P85 being older of course and with about 80k miles on the odo). Its not just the 0-60, but I noticed that there was a significant difference in acceleration anywhere from say, 15mph to up to maybe 80mph. The Performance def had more punch in the back anytime the accelerator pedal was touched/hit.

Now as it relates to the 2021 LR compared to Plaid. Is that difference worth $50k? To some yes, to some no. But I can say, Im pretty certain it will be a very noticeable difference in acceleration feel between the two. We are still talking several HUNDRED HP differences between the two.

 

[BigNick]

Now as it relates to the 2021 LR compared to Plaid. Is that difference worth $50k? To some yes, to some no. But I can say, Im pretty certain it will be a very noticeable difference in acceleration feel between the two. We are still talking several HUNDRED HP differences between the two.

It's a difference of 350 HP if you believe the numbers* Tesla is using, 670 for LR and 1020 for Plaid.
That was the HP of my old 2004 GTO, which was a relatively quick car for its time (and price range.)

* Tesla HP numbers should be suspect until proven valid on a dyno, since "691" etc.

 

[Hookemhorns]

"Zero trans fat*" "everything on sale*" "0-60 in 1.99 seconds*"

Then you follow the little asterisk and you find out "just a little trans fat, under 0.5 grams" "some things not on sale" and "1.99 seconds after a rollout when the car is already moving."

We have conditioned ourselves to accept exaggerations (untruths) by American industry. What a shame, when the real truth is already so impressive. This car is truly amazing. Maybe new owners will have access to service support a $140K car deserves.