Possible Model S Purchase - Some questions first

[Supertaff]

Hi All,

First post to this group.

I'm looking at getting rid of my personal car, an old 911and replacing it with a Telsa Model S.

At present my 911 is a personal car and while I love it, I'm looking for something more practical but with the same speed thrill and being a technology geek IU've been looking at the Tesla's for a while.

I work as an IT contractor and therefore run my own limited company so I'm thinking of buying the car via the company to take advantage of the Tax benefits in off-setting my corporation tax for this year against the deposit of the car.

So some questions

1) Does anyone know if the car has to be brand new to take advantage of the tax benefit or can I buy one from the current Tesla inventory (e.g. ex demo's with 50 miles), and does this also apply to ex demos with say 5,000 miles?
2) Are the 2017 P90D's the same specification as the P100D's apart from the battery size? Is there any other actual difference?
3) Are the premium seats a huge difference from standard? I have a long standing back problem and need good lower back support in the seats
4) Whats the actual real world milage you are getting, I've heard that the real world is about 20% lower than the quoted figures, not a major issue for me as at present I don't do long drives, but as jobs change I may have a longer drive.
5) Are there any other benefits from buying through a limited company rather than personal, anyone have any views?
6) Can you fit a top box without too many issues? I was thinking of a Model X, but the lack of top box ability due to the rear doors, rules that one out, as need extra space for holiday luggage.

Any other views/advice appreciated, to convince me that this is the right choice?

Thanks

Taff

 

[davidc18]

in the us only new, unregistered cars get the tax break which an internet search will tell you. actually all of your questions can be answered with a tiny bit of effort on your part, by searching these forums.

 

[Supertaff]

thanks davidc, for your response, yes, I've already researched a much as I can on the internet so I have already taken that effort.

The one thing I find though is that the forums and support groups are normally much more friendly and knowledgable about them than getting information from the internet and therefore wanted to ensure that my questions had the correct answers rather than taking a risk on a web search. As the cars change on a regular basis it is not always clear as to which version the information on the internet refers to. Hence again why I was asking for some direct feedback.

Maybe someone else will be kind enough to respond to the questions, or maybe not, we'll see.

 

[M4guy]

1) Does anyone know if the car has to be brand new to take advantage of the tax benefit or can I buy one from the current Tesla inventory (e.g. ex demo's with 50 miles), and does this also apply to ex demos with say 5,000 miles?
2) Are the 2017 P90D's the same specification as the P100D's apart from the battery size? Is there any other actual difference?
3) Are the premium seats a huge difference from standard? I have a long standing back problem and need good lower back support in the seats
4) Whats the actual real world milage you are getting, I've heard that the real world is about 20% lower than the quoted figures, not a major issue for me as at present I don't do long drives, but as jobs change I may have a longer drive.
5) Are there any other benefits from buying through a limited company rather than personal, anyone have any views?
6) Can you fit a top box without too many issues? I was thinking of a Model X, but the lack of top box ability due to the rear doors, rules that one out, as need extra space for holiday luggage.

1) Pretty sure it has to be new (hopefully someone will confirm this)

2) Bigger battery is the main difference, so more range, slightly better performance and faster charging at superchargers.

3) The Premium gen 2 seats are much better in my opinion! More supportive.

4) I got told to take around 60miles off the max stated range. Seems accurate enough to me up to press.

5) I couldn’t help you there as I bought as a sole trader, so I get mileage tax relief which you can do too, but you only get one relief so see which will net you the most benefits.

6) Pretty sure you can yes, maybe not with the pan roof?

You can use my Tesla referral link for free Supercharging on Model S or X. http://ts.la/stephen1703

 

[Supertaff]

1) Pretty sure it has to be new (hopefully someone will confirm this)

2) Bigger battery is the main difference, so more range, slightly better performance and faster charging at superchargers.

3) The Premium gen 2 seats are much better in my opinion! More supportive.

4) I got told to take around 60miles off the max stated range. Seems accurate enough to me up to press.

5) I couldn’t help you there as I bought as a sole trader, so I get mileage tax relief which you can do too, but you only get one relief so see which will net you the most benefits.

6) Pretty sure you can yes, maybe not with the pan roof?

You can use my Tesla referral link for free Supercharging on Model S or X. Unlimited Tesla Supercharging and Extended Solar Warranty

Hi M4Guy,

Many thanks for your detailed response, that is extremely helpful, and many thanks for the referral link, this will be extremely helpful for me

I hope you have a great day and New Years.

Taff

 

[WannabeOwner]

in the us only new, unregistered cars get the tax break which an internet search will tell you. actually all of your questions can be answered with a tiny bit of effort on your part, by searching these forums.

Why would you bother to post that in the UK forum, in answer to a question about UK tax. Whilst the UK tax question has been posted here before, there are several wrinkles which a Google Search is not going to easily answer.

4) Whats the actual real world milage you are getting, I've heard that the real world is about 20% lower than the quoted figures, not a major issue for me as at present I don't do long drives, but as jobs change I may have a longer drive.
5

I get real-world 220 miles @ 100% charge in my P90D. Allowing 20 miles for "comfort", and normally only charging to 90%, I charge to 100% if my journey is more than 160 miles, and in Winter I assume range is perhaps 20% less.

That said, Supercharger rollout rate is good, so as time progresses there is less chance of a route not having Supercharger opportunity. For piece of mind its worth considering a CHAdeMO adaptor (not exactly cheap!) as there are plenty of locations that have that, and although that is only 50% of speed of Supercharger its significantly better than the next step down ... but if you can abandon the car at the charger e.g. Type-2 in a car park, or even a 13AMP socket where you are staying for the weekend , then time stops being the issue.

5) Are there any other benefits from buying through a limited company rather than personal, anyone have any views?

Electricity is not a fuel, as far as BIK is concerned, so charging on the company's account is "free". Worth looking at this a bit closer though, relative to how many miles you do. Electricity works out at about 1/4 of the price of Petrol/Diesel (assuming you have E7 at home), so your total fuel bill for the year will probably be pleasantly lower such that you may not care too much whether you pay to charge, at home, or get it free, at work. My rule-of-thumb is that I save £100 per month (Electricity vs. Petrol/Diesel) for each 10,000 miles a year that I drive. I have charger at work, I charge there 5 days a week, but I never give a second thought to charging at home as its so cheap compared to ICE

I'm thinking of buying the car via the company to take advantage of the Tax benefits in off-setting my corporation tax

Two schools of thought. The Accountant's View is that you have to pay back tax when you sell the car, and you are therefore better off with straight-line tax relief. The other school of thought is to get the one-time lump-sum initial relief. I subscribe to the second. The straight-line amount is piddling and I can't do anything useful with that, whereas a single lump-sum used for the lifetime of the car represents a useful opportunity-cost to me.

You also need to consider the BIK. That is much lower on EV [company car] than ICE, but it has been increasing over the years (don't know what it is currently, sorry) so the "benefit" is reducing. You might want to consider company purchase initially, then sell to "self" at lowest WeBuyAnyCar quote you can get when the plot of BIK cost crosses your Company Benefit Line on the graph

Does anyone know if the car has to be brand new to take advantage of the tax benefit or can I buy one from the current Tesla inventory

I don't know the answer to that (but seems like it should be OK), but if you were to buy new would it arrive before the next tax year? and if not do you then fall into a different tax-relief regime? (I don't know the answer to that either, but I suspect there is a benefit to purchasing ni current tax year)

need extra space for holiday luggage

The MS is cavernous - space under the floor in the boot, and also space under the bonnet. Are you sure you need a roof box? I think you have to have glass roof, rather than solid roof, in order to have the rails need for roof attachments. That choice existed when i bought mine, I'm not sure it does any more, so don't know the current answer to roof attachments.

If you haven't had a test drive I suggest you do that, you won't get a pressure-sale from Tesla sales people, and it should answer the "how much luggage does it hold" question.

Are the 2017 P90D's the same specification as the P100D's apart from the battery size?

The figures for the model numbers are not directly comparable, so the difference between a 90 and a 100 is more than the 90:100 11%, thus if range was to be an issue then it is worth considering.

If you are on a long journey then:

• Bigger battery, charged to 100%, gets you further before having to charge (obviously)
• All batteries Supercharge to about 80% in the same time, so bigger gets you more miles in a given time (pro rata for battery size)
• Sweet-spot for Supercharging is 10% to 70% or 80%, beyond that it slows down considerably. So bigger gives you more flexibility as to where you stop to charge. In practice there isn't much choice in the UK, yet, so that extra battery size can be helpful.
• The difference is worth considering wrt comparing a 75 and a 100, less so with 90-to-100.

 

[Penfold]

Good choice of awesome Car

1) Does anyone know if the car has to be brand new to take advantage of the tax benefit or can I buy one from the current Tesla inventory (e.g. ex demo's with 50 miles), and does this also apply to ex demos with say 5,000 miles?

It has to be either custom new, new inventory or one of the used inventory that state it is VAT reclaimable which isn’t many of them but does apply to some so would have to check but on Tesla site they normally state if they are or not.

2) Are the 2017 P90D's the same specification as the P100D's apart from the battery size? Is there any other actual difference?

Could be a variety of differences with interior, suspension (air or standard) but don’t know enough on this to give a full answer.

3) Are the premium seats a huge difference from standard? I have a long standing back problem and need good lower back support in the seats.

Premium depends on type as they again vary with age of vehicle. Not sure on exact years of differences but I tried both standard and premium and both were comfy and had lumber support but would need to check on each specific model.


4) Whats the actual real world milage you are getting, I've heard that the real world is about 20% lower than the quoted figures, not a major issue for me as at present I don't do long drives, but as jobs change I may have a longer drive.

I have a 75D and do a 130m round trip each day and have about 50m left with a standard 90% charge but so many factors affect mileage. If you have ad-hoc additional mileage then just check on supercharger or via PlugShare (or others) to see what’s available to top up etc.


5) Are there any other benefits from buying through a limited company rather than personal, anyone have any views?

It’s worth it as covers all Car related stuff like tyres, insurance, maintenance etc. But the BiK is what hits you. It’s based on the P11D price so even buying second hand at half the new price the BiK will be on the new price and for the next 2 years is about 13% 2018-2019 and 16% 2019-2020 but then ‘should’ reduce to 2% for 2020-2021 and depending on your income style, I.e. salary or dividend or mixture then the BiK total comes into consideration although you pay a percentage in actual tax but overall it still works out better and with 4-6p per mile in electric costs (depending on your electric company) it works.

6) Can you fit a top box without too many issues? I was thinking of a Model X, but the lack of top box ability due to the rear doors, rules that one out, as need extra space for holiday luggage.

Must have sunroof for top box option, the full glass roof can’t have roof bars. Depending on your height this might be an issue but you would need to drive each option to work out what is best for you.

 

[DJP31]

The tax question is a complicated one, but there’s no doubt the first year allowance is attractive, but as you pay tax once the car is sold it’s really tax relief on the depreciation. Not to be sniffed at, mind you. If you buy the car personally and use it for business you can claim 45p per mile from your “employer” for the first 10k miles, then 25p a mile thereafter. The private car mileage allowance is not fuel rated as such, so good money to be added into the man maths equation there.

Having given those pearls of wisdom my actual advice would be to talk to your accountant and run the numbers specific to your circumstances.

The standard seats are not brilliant, so Next Gen or premium would be my advice.

If money is no object then the bigger the battery the better, that’s pretty obvious. If budget is a consideration have a look at the journeys you most commonly do, and see how the Supercharger network is placed. I went for a smaller battery as I wanted the AWD and Premium Upgrade and couldn’t do both. My 75D gets me 250 miles in the summer and 200 ish in the winter. That’s on a 100% charge.

I would also suggest you get the financial ducks in a row before you have a test drive, if you haven’t had one already. There will be no pressure from the ‘sales’ guy, but you WILL want one afterwards

The car is brilliant, exhilarating drive, the software updates unique in the industry, cheap to run especially if you use economy 7 at home and of course free Supercharging if you use a referral.

On the flip side, the build quality is a hot topic, the PDI’s poor and snagging lists are common. Tesla’s communication skills are primitive, which is astonishing considering they are a tech company. The staff will bend over backwards for you but they are under resourced with poor or non existent systems. Should that put you off? No, but do go into it with your eyes open and remember that Tesla time is defined as “a unit of time that has no pretermined start or finish point”

 

[Krash]

2) Are the 2017 P90D's the same specification as the P100D's apart from the battery size? Is there any other actual difference?

Keep in mind that cars with US manufacture date before June 14 have an older drive unit. The new drive unit has code DU01. I would recommend the new one. Otherwise the drive unit is the same. Also there are fifteen different 90 batteries and only one 100 battery as they seem to have gotten it right the first time. If you buy a 90 I suspect you will get orphaned and miss future performance upgrades.
​

 

[Supertaff]

Many thanks WannabeOwner and Penfold for your detailed responses.

I think between the two of you, you have covered off all the questions that I asked.

Sounds like the MS is still a good option for me and I've organised a test drive for this Sunday.

Mileage wise, sounds like the 75D would just about do and the 90D or 100D would be the sweet spot. I'm just all looking to buy a holiday cottage in Cornwall and the trip there is ~160 miles, so 75D would just about do it based on the above and the others would have no issues.

In terms of space the top box would be useful but not essential, my wife packs nearly our entire house when we travel, her car is a Ford Galaxy which is fully packed and with full roof box when we go away .

Thanks WannabeOwner for the advice on the Tax item, your view agrees with mine in that I can take the lump sum and then use that as a very nice deposit on the MS and then that reduces the monthly repayments, until I then sell at the reduced value as you stated.

Thanks Penfold regarding the additional perks of having it as the company car, as this all will stack up for my business case for buying it as a replacement for the 911. What I'd like to do is get to as close to possible to 0 cost difference between what the 911 costs me per month against the MS. Which based so far on a 75D it does, with the 90/100D's being about 150 per month more which is not a great difference and that would reduce should I do more miles.

Thanks again for all your feedback, Fatih in groups restored after first persons response.

 

[Supertaff]

Keep in mind that cars with US manufacture date before June 14 have an older drive unit. The new drive unit has code DU01. I would recommend the new one. Otherwise the drive unit is the same. Also there are fifteen different 90 batteries and only one 100 battery as they seem to have gotten it right the first time. If you buy a 90 I suspect you will get orphaned and miss future performance upgrades.
​

cheers for the response on the drive unit, I wasn't aware of that, will check that out. Is this something that is easily seen on the car or will Tesla reps be able to tell me?

 

[CUBldr97]

1) has to be new
2) bigger battery equals greater range,
3) cant help on this i have an older S (2013)
4) depends on your driving style.... but expect at highway speeds to get 15-20 lower than stated... as a 911 driver you will be very happy with a plane 100D, but the P might be more to your liking...
5) pretty sure the X would qualify for the "hummer" tax credit for a business, but you have to meet all the tax codes specifics for that.
6) for the S only the Pano roof has the actually brackets fora luggage rack. many options for a rack.... whisper bar is the main choice made by yakima... but i used my old yakima rack.

dang stephen beat me to the referral link...

 

[Krash]

cheers for the response on the drive unit, I wasn't aware of that, will check that out. Is this something that is easily seen on the car or will Tesla reps be able to tell me?

You can't see it. July and later manufacture are all new. May and older are all old. June is the only month you have to check.

 

[Supertaff]

c

The tax question is a complicated one, but there’s no doubt the first year allowance is attractive, but as you pay tax once the car is sold it’s really tax relief on the depreciation. Not to be sniffed at, mind you. If you buy the car personally and use it for business you can claim 45p per mile from your “employer” for the first 10k miles, then 25p a mile thereafter. The private car mileage allowance is not fuel rated as such, so good money to be added into the man maths equation there.

Having given those pearls of wisdom my actual advice would be to talk to your accountant and run the numbers specific to your circumstances.

The standard seats are not brilliant, so Next Gen or premium would be my advice.

If money is no object then the bigger the battery the better, that’s pretty obvious. If budget is a consideration have a look at the journeys you most commonly do, and see how the Supercharger network is placed. I went for a smaller battery as I wanted the AWD and Premium Upgrade and couldn’t do both. My 75D gets me 250 miles in the summer and 200 ish in the winter. That’s on a 100% charge.

I would also suggest you get the financial ducks in a row before you have a test drive, if you haven’t had one already. There will be no pressure from the ‘sales’ guy, but you WILL want one afterwards

The car is brilliant, exhilarating drive, the software updates unique in the industry, cheap to run especially if you use economy 7 at home and of course free Supercharging if you use a referral.

On the flip side, the build quality is a hot topic, the PDI’s poor and snagging lists are common. Tesla’s communication skills are primitive, which is astonishing considering they are a tech company. The staff will bend over backwards for you but they are under resourced with poor or non existent systems. Should that put you off? No, but do go into it with your eyes open and remember that Tesla time is defined as “a unit of time that has no pretermined start or finish point”

cheers for the response, very helpful. In terms of finances, I've put together a spreadsheet with the costs of Current 911 and the costs I can factor out for the MS to compare the different models to try to get the best idea. I can afford either of the models, but trying not to go over the top and spend on something that I don't really need, (which is what I usually do)

I will be speaking to my account in the new year to ensure I've covered everything off, but good to get the advice of people who have previous experience.

Thanks

 

[arcus]

cheers for the response on the drive unit, I wasn't aware of that, will check that out. Is this something that is easily seen on the car or will Tesla reps be able to tell me?

It will be on the specification sheet (look for DU01).

 

[JonG]

FYA is in new cars but it's cash flow benefit and will give you a tax bill when you sell. Buying new only for that is flawed thinking in my opinion. You can sill buy used and depreciate as normal (I think 20% every year)

P90DL started before the P100DL and are typically AP1 case whereas P100Ds are typically AP2.

If you put have it as a company car because of the high list price you're looking at 15k BIK over the next two years and you can only recover actual receipted fuel costs. You can't just claim a pence per mile.

The other way is private purchase if you're doing the mileage and at yourself 45p a mile then 25p after 10k. I do it this way and doing 15k a year that's about 7k tax free v 7k BIK - 14k difference.

I went facelift P90DL AP1 which are 75-80k (list price for BIK over 120k). P100D are around 105k, for BIK that's nearer 145k

The DU01 motor is the front motor on a P car and is relatively insignificant on a P car, on a non P it can make a difference.

Top box you have to have the piano roof. The metal and glass roofs can't take the whisper bars.

It won't be a 911, but I sols my Aston Martin 3 months after getting my Tesla, something I only regret 2 days a tear when I wanted a fun drive into wales.

My site has pretty much all the cars for sale in the uk plus a load of ownership details. Link is in my signature or feel free to message me.

 

[Supertaff]

Hi JonG,

Thanks for the response.

As you state, I am looking at the personal purchase as well, but at present my company milage is only ~ 250 a month, to airport and back again so very little I can claim in mileage back from company. Will be speaking with my accountant in the new year to work out the best approach. Though there is something about taking money away from the government (understand the repayment part when I sell) that appeals to me

I noticed I made a mistake in my original post, I didn't mean to add the P in front of the versions of the MS, it is just the standard 75D, 90D or 100D that I am considering so BIK would be lower, also I try to keep my personal tax under the 40% so shouldn't get hit that hard. 90D's look good value at the moment and they have the specification that I'm looking for in the 90D and not the 75Ds

Love the 911, but totally impractical car with two growing children and a dog so looking for fun and more practical and also something new and different.

Cheers

Taff

 

[WannabeOwner]

Must have sunroof for top box option, the full glass roof can’t have roof bars

You have to have glass roof, rather than solid roof, in order to have the rails need for roof attachments

Just to clarify on that. I was meaning to refer to the glass sunroof version, rather than the all-glass-roof model.

My 75D gets me 250 miles in the summer

Blimey! I'm doubting you have a feather-touch right foot but that's impressive . Although I suppose that's around 300 wH/mi which is not at all unreasonable, just I never achieve that "over all" for the month, albeit that I do on some (longer) trips.

I've organised a test drive for this Sunday

Welcome to the slippery slope!

looking to buy a holiday cottage in Cornwall

Assuming you could only charge from 13 AMP plug when you are there you'll get around 5 MPH so if you arrive at 8 PM on Friday and leave 4 PM on Sunday, and don't drive anywhere!, that would fill the battery back up again.

my wife packs nearly our entire house when we travel

Perhaps she could follow you in her Galaxy? ... I'll get my coat ...

the 90/100D's being about 150 per month more

Have you allowed for Fuel price difference?

For your spreadsheet I suggest you assume 3 miles per kWh - so whatever your Unit Price is for electricity will get you 3 miles; if you are getting a non-P then you might well do, say, 20% better than that. Worth considering E7 if you don't already have it, and if it will be convenient/common to charge overnight. Particularly if you have Solar PV (E7 has slightly higher day rate, but if you have Solar then you will be using less day-rate than Mr Average User)

I don't suppose your Porker has stellar MPG?

I expect you already have it in mind, but the cost of fitting a charger (at work too perhaps?). might be up to £600. Some options get you a grant, but it seems that you can only buy them at Full Price for some reason!

If you want to try some "Would I get there?, Where would I Supercharge?" What-Ifs on your regular routes then this route-planner might help:

A Better Routeplanner

 

[Supertaff]

Cheers WannabeOwner

Thanks for the clarification on the sunroof element, one thing I suppose is if we get the house in Cornwall, then that way the wife can leave more stuff there and it will mean that the amount of kit she takes every time should be less, but I'm not counting on that, as there always seems to be one more bag when I'm packing the car and it's already full. Before the Porker I used to have a Discovery 4, and even that was full with also a top box on it!!!!!!

In regards to the charging I intend to install a fast charger on my house and also later in 2018 put Solar PV on the house as well, just getting quotes for that at the moment (with the Tesla battery as well). If we can get a house with a drive/next to house parking spot in Cornwall will also install a fast charger there to allow for return journeys, but there are some fast chargers around the area now, though not any superchargers in the area we are looking to buy (Polzeath/Padstow). Just had a look at the link, there are two superchargers on the way, one in Exeter which would be a good place to stop off and have a break fro the driving and get some more juice and a couple more types of charger Type 2 and Schuko in the close area.

Porker mileage is between 15 - 20 mpg, as I like to drive it like I stole it

Looking forwards to the test drive, but feel that I will be half way down the slippery slope by the time I get back home on Sunday

Cheers

Taff

 

[DJP31]

↑
My 75D gets me 250 miles in the summer

Blimey! I'm doubting you have a feather-touch right foot but that's impressive . Although I suppose that's around 300 wH/mi which is not at all unreasonable, just I never achieve that "over all" for the month, albeit that I do on some (longer) trips.

It’s a round trip I do once or twice a month with wife and family in tow. ‘Nuff said about right foot . Chill mode and no AP - wife can’t stand the bonging .

@Supertaff, I suspect you’ll be well and truly at the bottom of the slippery slope come Sunday evening.

We look forward to an update