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Powerwall 2: SGIP/Incentives
- Thread starter avesraggiana
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- Powerwall Tesla Energy
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
They can apply the ITC to the full PW cost, if they collect the rebate and then send it to you (and 1099-MISC) you as the income.
They gave me a quote as well, and after I did all the math with them doing the 1099 vs. going direct with Tesla it was going to be 3-4k cheaper in the long run with Tesla, but I also didn't make Tier 1 SGIP.
They gave me a quote as well, and after I did all the math with them doing the 1099 vs. going direct with Tesla it was going to be 3-4k cheaper in the long run with Tesla, but I also didn't make Tier 1 SGIP.
EV-lutioin
Active Member
I tried to get through the whole process to get two PW-2's and SGIP rebate and I kept getting bounced out due to some glitch in their system. I ended up filling out surveys, questionnaires and contracts over and over and missing SGIP deadlines because they said they didn't receive them. In the end, I got frustrated and decided to wait until they develop a more functional process for getting the darn things.
Revision to my total upfront cost and expected rebate: I forgot to include the $500 down payment I placed last year, so my total is $13832.25. The incentive amount submitted is $9682.58 which is exactly 70% of that total.
Looking at the paperwork, I see they sized the system at 27 kWh, and calculated the incentive as $11750 based on 20 kWh at 100% (the 10 kWh design power x 2 hours) and the remaining 7 kWh at 50%. They then lowered the incentive because of the 30% expected ITC credit.
I looked around in the SGIP handbook and did not see anything about taking the ITC on the post-rebate price. The IRS form 5695 instructions talk about needing to deduct any "subsidies" you get from public utilities if they're not included in your gross income. So I wonder if I should expect to see an income form from the SGIP or if it counts as a subsidy. Other online things say no but I don't consider them authoritative.
If I can only claim the ITC on the remaining 30% then, at least on my current paperwork, I'm worse off claiming the ITC than not ($10927.48 vs $11750). But then my current paperwork is wrong and the SGIP incentive should not have been limited. The mind spins.
Looking at the paperwork, I see they sized the system at 27 kWh, and calculated the incentive as $11750 based on 20 kWh at 100% (the 10 kWh design power x 2 hours) and the remaining 7 kWh at 50%. They then lowered the incentive because of the 30% expected ITC credit.
I looked around in the SGIP handbook and did not see anything about taking the ITC on the post-rebate price. The IRS form 5695 instructions talk about needing to deduct any "subsidies" you get from public utilities if they're not included in your gross income. So I wonder if I should expect to see an income form from the SGIP or if it counts as a subsidy. Other online things say no but I don't consider them authoritative.
If I can only claim the ITC on the remaining 30% then, at least on my current paperwork, I'm worse off claiming the ITC than not ($10927.48 vs $11750). But then my current paperwork is wrong and the SGIP incentive should not have been limited. The mind spins.
@zed - thanks for the review- that's what I thought at this time of the limitation of the app. Tesla shouldn't care. I'd understand the power companies would.
With SGIP, my understanding is that one will commit to 50 full cycles a year to grid support. How get one to that when the battery sensory doesn't allow dumping into the grid itself and only local Battery2Home drains?
With SGIP, my understanding is that one will commit to 50 full cycles a year to grid support. How get one to that when the battery sensory doesn't allow dumping into the grid itself and only local Battery2Home drains?
Removing your load from the head of the duck curve is grid support. Not as much as it could be, but you would still be able to get those equivalent full cycles by just powering your house to zero grid during the evening.
astrothad
Member
I now have a two-day appointment - July 17 for the main panel upgrade, and July 18 for PowerWall installation.
There is going to be a ridiculous amount of equipment hanging on that wall of the house after that. I'll let you all know how things go.
Also, my plans were approved and signed agreements submitted during the first week of May, and I'm slotted for SGIP Tier 2.
There is going to be a ridiculous amount of equipment hanging on that wall of the house after that. I'll let you all know how things go.
Also, my plans were approved and signed agreements submitted during the first week of May, and I'm slotted for SGIP Tier 2.
A tesla sales rep said that they are backed up with applying for incentives and that it would already be on stage 3, despite https://www.selfgenca.com/home/program_metrics/ claiming that we are on stage2 with allocated funds $2,212,143.72 and available funds $3,850,063.38
Not sure what to make of that?
Not sure what to make of that?
From what I've found out from Tesla, they've ran out of Tier (stage) 2 allocation already even though there is Tier 2 funds available. Installers only have a certain percentage of the incentive pot that they can take. So I was told if you want to apply, it'll be Tier 3 now at 0.35 cents / kWH.
Another tidbit, even with 0.40 cents three batteries only get you $13,920.00 incentive because of the following assumptions:
Each Tesla battery is rated with the following:
· Rated Capacity: 5kW
· Energy Storage Capacity: 13.2kWh
· Discharge Hours Duration: 2.64 hours
And there is a lower incentive for the last 0.64 hours than for the first 2 hours according to this spreadsheet I got from SGIP.
Results:
Incentive Calculation Incentive Step: 2 Incentive Rate: $0.4 per Watt-hour
Reference Table 0-2 MWH 2-4 MWH"}">>2-4 MWH 4-6 MWH"}">>4-6 MWH
0-2 HOURS 100% 50% 25%
2-4 HOURS 50% 25% 12.50%
4-6 HOURS 25% 12.50% 6.25%
0-2 MWH 2-4 MWH"}">>2-4 MWH 4-6 MWH"}">>4-6 MWH
Existing Onsite Equipment Off-Set - 2000000,IF(R13C2<4000000> - 4000000,IF(R13C2<6000000> -
0-2 HOURS =2,2,R9C2)">2 =2,2,R9C2)*R11C2+R[-1]C[0])<2000000>=2,2,R9C2)*R11C2,2000000-R[-1]C[0])"> 30,000 =2,2,R9C2)*R11C2+R[-1]C[-1])>2000000,IF(IF(R9C2>=2,2,R9C2)*R11C2+R[-1]C[-1]+R[-1]C[0]<4000000>=2,2,R9C2)*R11C2-R[0]C[-1]),2000000-R[-1]C[0]),0)"> - =2,2,R9C2)*R11C2+R[-1]C[-2]+R[-1]C[-1]>4000000,IF(IF(R9C2>=2,2,R9C2)*R11C2+R[-1]C[-2]+R[-1]C[-1]+R[-1]C[0]<6000000>=2,2,R9C2)*R11C2-R[0]C[-1]-R[0]C[-2],2000000-R[-1]C[0]),0)"> -
2-4 HOURS =4,2,IF(R9C2-2<0>1 =4,2,IF(R9C2-2<0>=4,2,IF(R9C2-2<0> 9,600 =4,2,IF(R9C2-2<0>2000000,IF((IF(R9C2>=4,2,IF(R9C2-2<0>=4,2,IF(R9C2-2<0> - =4,2,IF(R9C2-2<0>4000000,IF((IF(R9C2>=4,2,IF(R9C2-2<0>=4,2,IF(R9C2-2<0> -
4-6 HOURS =6,2,IF(R9C2-4<0>0 =6,2,IF(R9C2-4<0>=6,2,IF(R9C2-4<0> - =6,2,IF(R9C2-4<0>2000000,IF((IF(R9C2>=6,2,IF(R9C2-4<0>=6,2,IF(R9C2-4<0> - =6,2,IF(R9C2-4<0>4000000,IF((IF(R9C2>=6,2,IF(R9C2-4<0>=6,2,IF(R9C2-4<0> -
Base Equipment Incentive $13,920.00
CA Manufacturer Adder 0
Max Equipment Incentive a) $13,920.00
Other Incentives Total Dollars Impact on SGIP Incentive
Other IOU Incentive (100%) $0.00 b) $0.00
Other Non-IOU Incentive (50%) $0.00 c) $0.00
Non-Ratepayer Incentive (0%) $0.00
Adjusted Equipment Incentive a+b+c = d) 0,R33C7+R35C7+R36C7,0)">$13,920.00
Total Other Incentives e) $0.00
SGIP Incentive Adjustments Equipment Incentive + Total Other Incentive <= Incentive Cap(s) Incentive Adjustment
Project Incentive Cap (Equipment) f) $13,920.00 $5,000,000.00 g) R[0]C[-4],0,R[0]C[-2]-R[0]C[-4])">$0.00
Eligible Cost Cap (All Incentives) f+g= h) $13,920.00 $0.00 $30,000.00 i) (R[0]C[-4]+R[0]C[-3]),0,R[0]C[-2]-(R[0]C[-4]+R[0]C[-3]))">$0.00
Equipment Incentive j) 0,R[-6]C[0]+R[-3]C[0]+R[-2]C[0],0)">$13,920.00
Calculated SGIP Incentive $13,920.00
So if we submit to SGIP ourselves we'd get Tier 2 but if installer does it, it's tier 3? [confused]
--As for the maincircuit; not sure why, but we luckily didn't have an upgrade needed.
Have 200AMP with 4KW system off the main along with 50A for EV +2 subpanels - 1 for pool opposite side of house and 1 for the upstairs load including the washer/dryer and AC units. They quoted for two PW2 with backup house setup. --- guess lucky they didn't stick that upgrade on us.
Correct. There is a cap at 10kW for Residential projects. Each PW2 is rated at 5kW. So only 2 PWs are eligible per project.
Check this page for per developer caps.
https://www.selfgenca.com/home/program_metrics/
if you go with any other developer, you can get into Step2, but not with Tesla.
Presumably these are subsidised (post-SGIP) costs? I ask, because the non-existent PW2 I paid for 3 months ago to my local installer (Treehouse) is $10k for one PW2 (as a component of a larger solar installation, that's now finally more or less complete).
Holy cow I don't know if Tesla SolarCity are incompetent, evil or mad geniuses.
I ordered 2 Tesla Powerwalls, trying to make step 1. We don't make it but I'm told I'll be one of the first for step 2. Run the numbers and figure that it still works. I'm in communication, get the paperwork, send it promptly and basically under the impression that things are going along well. I get a call to yesterday to schedule install and I think yay. Get it all scheduled, and I'm told they're going invoice when the inspection happens. I ask what will the amount be, pre and post rebate? The person I'm talking to looks at my account and says you're not in SGIP. WTF?
So a little bit of back of forth/research later. The design department had wanted to push me into 3 powerwalls. When that came I immediately and in no uncertain terms made it clear, *NOI* I only wanted 2 powerwalls. 3 powerwalls doesn't work with SGIP. Apparently this "genius" move by the designers put my file in odd hold state. So even though I had completed and signed all the paperwork for the 2 powerwall design the application was never submitted. Through the process I'm in regular communication, checking on how my project is calling. No indication of SGIP hangup. I'm given status like "working with PG&E" on service panel location and we're just waiting for parts. Clearly somone should have told me that me SGIP application had not been submitted. I strongly suspect the person I was talking to didn't know but this seems incompetent. They are telling me that step 2 is now closed (which it appears not be true, just closed for Tesla).
So I ask them if will they do anything for me. The short answer is no. The person I talked tried to be helpful when she called me back after a couple of hours she came back with a big fat zero. I believe her that she tried to bat for me I suspect she just didn't have the clout. So my options are install without SGIP (mad genius move on their part?). I can wait for step 3 and I'm promised again I will be "one of the first" again. They say it will be several months before step 3 opens (I'm not in a particular hurry but I'm having trouble trusting Tesla). After analyzing SGIP and ITC I came to conclusion that SGIP step without ITC was good enough. I could revaluate SGIP step 3 with ITC but in end I'm doing more work after being strung out by Tesla. Or I can tell Tesla FU and get my money back and maybe look for another vendor.
Other interesting tidbits. When I scheduling the install the person I was talking said I would be one of the first hundred install, was I ok with this? OTOH conversation with a different person says they're installing thousands in the bay area. The statements are not mutually exclusive but I'm bemused by the difference in what is being emphasized.
Sigh.
arnold
I ordered 2 Tesla Powerwalls, trying to make step 1. We don't make it but I'm told I'll be one of the first for step 2. Run the numbers and figure that it still works. I'm in communication, get the paperwork, send it promptly and basically under the impression that things are going along well. I get a call to yesterday to schedule install and I think yay. Get it all scheduled, and I'm told they're going invoice when the inspection happens. I ask what will the amount be, pre and post rebate? The person I'm talking to looks at my account and says you're not in SGIP. WTF?
So a little bit of back of forth/research later. The design department had wanted to push me into 3 powerwalls. When that came I immediately and in no uncertain terms made it clear, *NOI* I only wanted 2 powerwalls. 3 powerwalls doesn't work with SGIP. Apparently this "genius" move by the designers put my file in odd hold state. So even though I had completed and signed all the paperwork for the 2 powerwall design the application was never submitted. Through the process I'm in regular communication, checking on how my project is calling. No indication of SGIP hangup. I'm given status like "working with PG&E" on service panel location and we're just waiting for parts. Clearly somone should have told me that me SGIP application had not been submitted. I strongly suspect the person I was talking to didn't know but this seems incompetent. They are telling me that step 2 is now closed (which it appears not be true, just closed for Tesla).
So I ask them if will they do anything for me. The short answer is no. The person I talked tried to be helpful when she called me back after a couple of hours she came back with a big fat zero. I believe her that she tried to bat for me I suspect she just didn't have the clout. So my options are install without SGIP (mad genius move on their part?). I can wait for step 3 and I'm promised again I will be "one of the first" again. They say it will be several months before step 3 opens (I'm not in a particular hurry but I'm having trouble trusting Tesla). After analyzing SGIP and ITC I came to conclusion that SGIP step without ITC was good enough. I could revaluate SGIP step 3 with ITC but in end I'm doing more work after being strung out by Tesla. Or I can tell Tesla FU and get my money back and maybe look for another vendor.
Other interesting tidbits. When I scheduling the install the person I was talking said I would be one of the first hundred install, was I ok with this? OTOH conversation with a different person says they're installing thousands in the bay area. The statements are not mutually exclusive but I'm bemused by the difference in what is being emphasized.
Sigh.
arnold
Wow Arnold. What a punch in the gut. I still don't have a good feeling about Swell Energy either. I just asked for a status report since I haven't heard anything in the month since my site eval. The answer was that the subcontractor who is doing the installs in my area has not come back with their site review report. They also said that PG&E is dribbling out SGIP technical reviews and confirmations. So, I continue to wait to see how much more expensive they will be than Tesla (before incentive).
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