Powerwall 2: SGIP/Incentives

[bkp_duke]

ARGH! I hate dealing with Tesla.

Now, I've gotten punted to a THIRD customer service rep that swears the limit is 2 powerwalls.

I was directed to this page (which the last reps said hadn't been updated with the info to include 4 powerwalls):
California Self-Generation Incentive Program (SGIP) FAQs

Anyone heard anything different?

 

[commasign]

I just got an email with preliminary rebate confirmation from PG&E under “Large-Scale Storage Step 2”. Up til now I also assumed Step 2 was limited to residential and 2 powerwalls, and I was waiting for Step 3 for my 4 powerwall system. Hopefully it all goes through.

 

[bkp_duke]

I just got an email with preliminary rebate confirmation from PG&E under “Large-Scale Storage Step 2”. Up til now I also assumed Step 2 was limited to residential and 2 powerwalls, and I was waiting for Step 3 for my 4 powerwall system. Hopefully it all goes through.

And you ordered direct through Tesla?

 

[commasign]

And you ordered direct through Tesla?

Yes. Tesla.com online order.

 

[Ampster]

Now, I've gotten punted to a THIRD customer service rep that swears the limit is 2 powerwalls.

That may be that company's policy. A good friend of mine reserved 4 from an independent installer. He has installed 2 and doesn't think he needs more.

 

[bkp_duke]

That may be that company's policy. A good friend of mine reserved 4 from an independent installer. He has installed 2 and doesn't think he needs more.

Company policy is one thing. Stating that it's the SGIP rebate limit when it may not actually be is quite another.

Hearing that different customers are getting different stories and pushed to different types of rebates (Small Residential vs. Larger Energy, etc.) is frankly disappointing. Sadly, it's pretty much modus operandi for how we've seen Tesla operate over the years.

 

[bkp_duke]

Alright, got some clarification on Tesla today on this.

If you want 2 powerwalls, you are wedged into Small Residential, which is the best fit for anyone really.

If you want 3+, then you go into Large Scale Storage.

To get whole-house backup, we had to go for 3+ powerwalls because of the AC units. For this reason, we will be Large Scale Storage, in SDG&E territory, in Step 4. The Step 4 part sucks, but even then we still get enough of a rebate to make this project make sense.

Just some info for anyone that needs to go bigger than two Powerwalls and wants the SGIP rebate.

 

[miimura]

I finally got a call from Swell Energy this evening. They said my Step 1 SGIP rebate was approved and it came out to more than what they originally quoted - just over $11k for two PowerWalls. The guy also said that my portion after my $350 deposit and SGIP would be less than $3k. My jaw almost hit the floor in delight. I have been very skeptical of Swell Energy but if this really comes true, I will be doing a silly little happy dance.

He also said that they put in the PO for my PowerWalls, but they are in short supply due to the shipments to Puerto Rico. He indicated that Tesla expects to ramp up production in December so they should have no trouble getting them before the end of the year.

 

[Kren]

Just to let those who are considering....some people who are self-submitting their own rebate application are getting approval confirmations for step 2.

 

[Az_Rael]

Just to let those who are considering....some people who are self-submitting their own rebate application are getting approval confirmations for step 2.

I didn’t know any self submitters had been approved yet. Do you have any details as to when they submitted?

 

[Kren]

I didn’t know any self submitters had been approved yet. Do you have any details as to when they submitted?

The homeowner that I consulted in filling out the application, submitted a perfect application (it needed no revisions) I think 4 weeks ago. He received his confirmation letter last week. I submitted back in August but I had to re-submitted documents a couple of times. My utility told me I was approved but there is a backlog in getting out confirmation letters. I went back in the queue each time I re-submitted my documents. They said I should expect to see my confirmation letter in the next two weeks. With that "unofficial" confirmation I went ahead and scheduled my install.

 

[rohnin]

Been reading thru most of this thread during the past day or so. I recently got a 9.9kW solar panel system installed and was looking to get a single PW2 installed to time-shift load for the peak hours of the TOU rates. I purchased a PW2 from Tesla's site and sent them some initial docs like last month's usage history and solar system specs and then some time later I got a quote for 2 PW2s for $14,050+tax (labor installation was a big high- quoted at $2200! with no need for MSP upgrade, trenching, etc.) The Tesla rep also estimates I would be in Step 4 (under SCE) if I were to go thru with the purchase so I definitely will try to apply for SGIP myself.

My question is do I really need to get 2 PW2s based on the above-average size of my solar system or is it possible to get only 1 PW2? I would really prefer only 1 PW2 but The rep said that 1 PW2 wouldn't be able to handle the charge load from the solar system...but doesn't some part of the system, whether it's the solar inverter or the PW2 inverter, capable of regulating how much load is being sent from solar and received by the PW2?

 

[eml2]

My question is do I really need to get 2 PW2s based on the above-average size of my solar system or is it possible to get only 1 PW2? I would really prefer only 1 PW2 but The rep said that 1 PW2 wouldn't be able to handle the charge load from the solar system...but doesn't some part of the system, whether it's the solar inverter or the PW2 inverter, capable of regulating how much load is being sent from solar and received by the PW2?

My local installer told me that Tesla wants PW's to be sized big enough that it can absorb all the output of the solar inverter if there is a power outage. Otherwise, the extra power will have nowhere to go since the grid is down.

 

[miimura]

My local installer told me that Tesla wants PW's to be sized big enough that it can absorb all the output of the solar inverter if there is a power outage. Otherwise, the extra power will have nowhere to go since the grid is down.

If you really only wanted one PowerWall and had two solar string inverters, you could have them wire one solar inverter inside the gateway transfer switch and leave one outside. That way the operation would be smoother when the grid is down, but you would lose half of your generation during that outage. When the grid is up, it makes no difference and you could fill the PowerWall faster.

 

[rohnin]

My local installer told me that Tesla wants PW's to be sized big enough that it can absorb all the output of the solar inverter if there is a power outage. Otherwise, the extra power will have nowhere to go since the grid is down.

I'm totally fine with losing out on excess solar power generated when there's an outage because there aren't that many in my area. Also I don't think I'd be able to fully charge 2 PW2s from solar power based on my load usage and power generated from the non-optimal panel direction (most of them are facing east because that's the only roof space available after using up the limited west face). I also want to send some solar energy to grid during day to get some TOU credit at the high peak rates to convert and use multiple super off-peak energy from grid...I wouldn't be able to send any excess energy if I were to get 2 PW2s.

 

[arnolddeleon]

My local installer told me that Tesla wants PW's to be sized big enough that it can absorb all the output of the solar inverter if there is a power outage. Otherwise, the extra power will have nowhere to go since the grid is down.

This is correct. If the PV output exceeds what the PW can sink it will try signal that PV system by shifting frequency, some inverters will use that as a cue to lower output, if they don't respond the frequency will eventually fall out of spec and the PV system will be "forced" to disconnect.

There can be interesting corner cases which is why I suspect Tesla going for the simpler case of making the PW big enough. OTOH if you convince them you understand and accept the limitations they will sell you the number of PW that you want. In my case they wanted me to have 3 PW but I only wanted 2. I'm currently in the process of getting my main panel upgraded while the PW install itself is scheduled for the last week of December.

arnold

 

[wwhitney]

Bump (because for some reason my previous post did not update the "last post" field in the forum). Cheers, Wayne

 

[crackers8199]

Not arguing that it doesn't affect Tesla. I think the tax credit has served it's original purpose: to spur EV development and INITIAL adoption. I think Tesla can compete on merits now.

Hell, I'm buying 3 Powerwalls and I have SERIOUS mixed feelings about the gigantic CA rebate I am getting for them. It's nothing more than a corporate subsidy to Tesla. I would that rebate on the powerwalls go away, and see Tesla just lower their price on them.

what state rebates are there for the powerwall? i'm considering adding 2-3 myself...

 

[Waiting4M3]

what state rebates are there for the powerwall? i'm considering adding 2-3 myself...

CA has SGIP, which is an incentive for self-generation (such as residential solar), and any equipment used with solar, such as battery storage. A coworker installed Powerwall (already has existing solar panels), and got ~$4500 from the state ($7500 total cost including installation). Each year it has limited availability. The application for this year started in Apr or May. Tesla applied for my coworker. The caveat is that for Powerwall to qualify under SGIP, it can only source electricity from the solar panels, and it was configured as such during the installation.

 

[Az_Rael]

The caveat is that for Powerwall to qualify under SGIP, it can only source electricity from the solar panels, and it was configured as such during the installation.

Almost. You can get a rebate on a powerwall without solar, but you have to discharge it 52 times per year, meaning you can’t use it in backup mode only. There is a bonus rebate if you also charge it 75% with solar.