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FSD price increase to 12K Jan 17th
I saw that and was shocked. I read that only 11% of Tesla owners have FSD. I guess raising the price the price will entice more buyers?? lol Makes the subscription plan an even better value but I'll bet the subscription will increase as well soon. I've always said that I'll be willing to pay up to $5k for the enhanced autopilot package they used to have. All I'm interested in is auto lane changes.
 
Just sell each FSD feature separately and plenty of people will buy what features mean most to them. Or bring back enhanced auto pilot for $4 grand and make everyone happy.
Good luck with that. When I bought FSD it was $7000 and I was on the fence about it. Less than one month after I took delivery, it jumped to $8000. Then later on it jumped to $10000 and now it is going to jump again to $12000.

That $4000 EAP pricing was based on what FSD price? $6000? $7000? So the EAP only portion was better than 50 percent of the current FSD price. So with FSD going to $12000 in less than two weeks, I'd expect any EAP pricing to jump accordingly and it would no longer be a $4000 upgrade option, but more like a $7000 option to keep the percentages intact. If that is the case, my $7000 FSD purchase would be the same price as buying just EAP now, and if I only use the EAP portion, I will still have all the extras for next to free.

IMO the days of getting the EAP portion so cheaply are probably gone, but we can all dream...
 
The only piece I miss is changing lanes when I am on a trip. It just annoys me that autopilot is dropped when I switch to another lane.
Toyota and Honda allow you to switch lane by temporary designating autopilot (or whatever each one of them is calling it) but as soon as you finished switching lanes autopilot is engaged again.
I heard Rivian will set it as a standard feature too.
So more competition will force Tesla do do something about it.
Personally, I have no use for FSD except for once a month long trip, where autopilot is doing the job. So I can't justify spending even $10k on it.
EAP at $4k is another rip off. If I drive on long trips once a month and switch lanes 10 times on a trip it is a very steep price to pay. Like $5-10 for each lane change?!?!
FSD doesn't add much value for trade in, unless it is private sale.
Carvana and places like that don't even mention that car has FSD, since Tesla may remove it and sell it again to new owner.
 
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So many price increase the last year. Some of that could have been built in profit for expected tax credit that may not happen.

New car inventory in the industry is starting to stabilize... What will happen in next year as more and more competitors improve their EV options? Will Tesla hit a point they decrease prices back to 2020 levels?

Soany once in a lifetime events happening it's hard to know what direction the next year or two will go.
 
For trading in to Tesla, sure. For selling the car, FSD adds quite a bit to the value.
Not sure it does. Dealers and buyers generally don’t give you back what you paid for upgrades or extra items. Ie. 10k fsd…you’ll likely get 5k more for the car if you have it. People like a deal and generally upgrades are just bundled into one total negotiated price.

I wouldn’t buy fsd with any expectation to ever get my money back on it.

Personally don’t see the value in jt still
 
FSD as a whole package is BS. Everyone buying FSD now is like pouring money in to it's R&D.

In the useful life of the car, (10 to 15 years) from now, I highly doubt there will be a full self driving car.

With the way they are pricing FSD and marketing it. If Tesla ever goes down, it will be because of FSD.

When thinking about FSD, I find lot of similarities like ENRON and Theranos.
 
FSD as a whole package is BS. Everyone buying FSD now is like pouring money in to it's R&D.

In the useful life of the car, (10 to 15 years) from now, I highly doubt there will be a full self driving car.

With the way they are pricing FSD and marketing it. If Tesla ever goes down, it will be because of FSD.

When thinking about FSD, I find lot of similarities like ENRON and Theranos.
So you're suggesting that the most elite technical team that's been assembled in modern times in an attempt to solve one of the most formidable problems in artificial intelligence, one that actually proves just how amazing biological brains are, is like a scam artist sociopath corporation and another scam artist sociopath who used lies to build a phony corporation? Really? What is your evidence for those wild ideas?
 
So you're suggesting that the most elite technical team that's been assembled in modern times in an attempt to solve one of the most formidable problems in artificial intelligence, one that actually proves just how amazing biological brains are, is like a scam artist sociopath corporation and another scam artist sociopath who used lies to build a phony corporation? Really? What is your evidence for those wild ideas?
I think the post only said it’s not viable for another decade. In Elon Musk time it would be ready last year lol. Now it’s level 5 maybe 4-5 yrs which means realistically 10-12. Even EM admitted the complexity for this AI is far beyond what he originally planned for.

If there is a company to solve it…it will be Tesla hands down. But the AI needs far more data and perhaps even physical computing power in each vehicle to make this a reality. There are so many glitches even now with fsd and autopilot it’s not funny nor safe 100%.
 
I think the post only said it’s not viable for another decade. In Elon Musk time it would be ready last year lol. Now it’s level 5 maybe 4-5 yrs which means realistically 10-12. Even EM admitted the complexity for this AI is far beyond what he originally planned for.

If there is a company to solve it…it will be Tesla hands down. But the AI needs far more data and perhaps even physical computing power in each vehicle to make this a reality. There are so many glitches even now with fsd and autopilot it’s not funny nor safe 100%.
Actually the post said a lot more than that. It said that FSD reminded the poster of theranos and Enron. Nice job at cleaning it up though. And just for your information, what constitutes ready is really a regulatory and not a scientific definition. It's already better than the average driver but of course that's not good enough. But if you keep moving the goalposts on what is good enough such that you insist that the system is able to avoid any and all accidents all of the time – something that humans can't do – it may never be ready.
 
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Actually the post said a lot more than that. It said that FSD reminded the poster of theranos and Enron. Nice job at cleaning it up though. And just for your information, what constitutes ready is really a regulatory and not a scientific definition. It's already better than the average driver but of course that's not good enough. But if you keep moving the goalposts on what is good enough such that you insist that the system is able to avoid any and all accidents all of the time – something that humans can't do – it may never be ready.
I tried! Keep the peace lol
 
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I tried! Keep the peace lol
I think it may take some frank discussion about how an artificial intelligence system is better than 95% of human drivers but still results in X number of fatalities that a top percentile of human drivers might avoid. The real question is what it will take in terms of neural network training and computational power to get to a point where the system is as good as the very best top 1% of humans. Of course even those folks have accidents, so it really becomes a question of whether you can separate and statistically define genuine excellence from some kind of unrealistic expectation of near perfection. It's hard to believe that any artificial system is going to be able to anticipate every contingency. Humans can't so it's hard to believe we can create that level of skill artificially in a so-called expert system.

I can tell you this. I consider myself a really good driver. I've never had an at-fault accident in over a million miles of driving. And yet I have more confidence in my system in autopilot on the highway at this point than I do in myself. That's because it never gets tired, and although it has some gaffes like occasional Phantom braking it generally misses less than I do. So I don't think we're 10 years away from a viable full self-driving. The only thing that would put it 10 years out again is if we're going to expect perfection. Tesla statistics mirror what I'm describing namely that on the highway you are far safer in autopilot than you are driving the car yourself. So that's suggest that the target of FSD is not that far off. Anyone who knew anything about the problem knew that Elon was wildly optimistic in his estimations of how neural network systems would solve the problem in a short period of time but that doesn't mean the problem is uncomputable
 
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When thinking about FSD, I find lot of similarities like ENRON and Theranos.
Lol! That's a pretty funny statement :)

Enron was bs accounting/fraud
Theranos, well, she's just plain cuckoo and a fraud
FSD, Musk does have visions of grandeur, offering it to folks many years ago albeit for a lower cost back then, but at least we can see the progress and where it's heading. Personally, I still wouldn't fork up the money, would def go the subscription route first just to play around with it until the day where it's good enough (subjective) to me on a future car purchase.
 
If the government comes out and outright bans FSD and fines Tesla for fraudulent sales tactics, does the consumer get a refund?

The car is not "full" self driving, but the government will eventually define what that means via regulation. The fact it hasnt sued Tesla yet, implies there is enough lobbying money floating around for Musk to keep playing. I'd argue, the price increase is going to fund their lobbyists' coffers to influence the regulations.