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Price of Supercharging in the future?
- Thread starter Vines
- Start date
Currently we are in the $ 0.28-0.44 /kWh range, depending on the usage of the other families sharing this meter. Its a bit complicated as to the whys, but the only way to avoid this would be a dedicated EV meter and plug. That would be several thousand dollars to install and be convenient for me where I park.
Installing NEMA 14-50 outlets as a solution for EVs and PHEVs to charging on a regular basis at work is a TERRIBLE idea. I already posted about why at Why ChargePoint is Terrible.
Also see Why ChargePoint is Terrible, Why ChargePoint is Terrible and Why ChargePoint is Terrible.
For the airport and workplace case, even if driver has a compatible EVSE (all in the US are at least compatible w/NEMA 5-15), what about theft? I certainly don't want to leave my $500+ L1 EVSE out to get stolen or have a copper thief cut it for the copper.
That's what happens in PG&E-land aka Pacific Gouge & Extort.
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I don't really have one other than to install simpler, cheaper non-networked L2 EVSEs (say from Clipper Creek) if the parking lot/garage has physical access controls (e.g. gate or barrier).
There are some other EVSE access control solutions like Liberty Plugins. There's some free public L2 charging near me that has a bunch of Clipper Creek L2 EVSEs with the above Liberty Access keypad system.
I've seen solution like Home - Tellus Power at CES but I've never seen one in the wild. L1 PowerPost existed for ages and there's now an L2 solution: Products | PowerPost EVSE. But the latter is pretty wimpy.
There is some old-fashioned access control on PowerPost: Energy Theft Protection | PowerPost EVSE and Clipper Creek: Accessories: EV Charging Station Accessories | ClipperCreek. There are some Clipper Creek EVSEs near home that have ChargeGuard Access Control Kit | ClipperCreek. When I've tried using them, I've gotten no juice, so I can only assume they were locked.
Disagree completely.
J1772 for AC charging is what you propose in the bolded part. See Wayback Machine. Unfortunately, for DC charging, in North America we unfortunately have at least 3 standards: Tesla's proprietary NA connector for Supercharger, CHAdeMO and (thanks to the Frankenclub crowd) SAE Combo (aka Combo1 flavor of CCS or J1772 CCS).
As for the first part, the locking crap (and self closing charging doors) implementation of the Tesla proprietary connector for AC charging (yes, I know it needs to be locked for DC charging, for safety reasons) is garbage for Wall Connector plug sharing in a work environment. We have a bunch of Tesla Wall Connectors at work besides a ton of Chargepoint L2 J1772 stations.
Our work parking structure has no access control, so in theory, anyone w/a Tesla can come by and plug into those WCs, tying up a space and plug until they leave, leaching off our electricity. Our Chargepoint stations have access control and only our employees when approved by our admin can use them.
The stupid Tesla plug remains locked to the car even when charging is done. The Tesla drivers have to ping people by email, internal chat, etc. based upon an internal registry (assuming they're not a mystery car). There are 2x as many parking spaces as there are WCs. If someone wants to plug in their own Tesla or waiting ones by unplug ones that are done, they have to go thru the pinging, hoping the other guy is available/monitoring to remotely unlock their plug. Also, it seems like there's a timeout for the remote unlock where it re-locks itself.
If the car's a mystery (not in our registry and not responding to pings by plate #), we're out of luck until they unplug themselves or vacate the spot.
The plug lock also means we can't optimize cable usage. In some cases, a car is unreachable, but if all the plugs were shifted over by one in the row of cars, all could be charging. I've run into this frequently, including this past week. (I didn't come up with how they arranged the WCs vs. parking spaces. It's sub-optimal).
No or almost no other EVs/PHEVs have self-closing charging doors. So, if we want to plug in a waiting Tesla at the WCs (and we don't have their key or phone), we found that pushing on WC's handle button will open the charging door on the S (sometimes there's a big delay). For the 3, we found that tugging on the 3's door handle (to wake it) then pushing the button will open it (often there's a delay). Who knows why they're different? For the X, we haven't found a trick so we can't, other than pinging the owner. Why???
When we walk out to the parking structure, we don't usually bring our laptops along to look people up. We have a spreadsheet but it's a pain to navigate on a phone.
To top it off, I recently encountered someone's S locking mechanism that failed. It was exactly Charge port pin won't retract. The S door opened but the pin wouldn't retract and is spring-loaded (by default blocking). You could hear motor noises of it trying to retract, to no avail. So, I couldn't plug him in. My finger (to hold down the pin, causing the ring arount the inlet to light up) + plug would not fit in the inlet. If they just didn't put unnecessary cycles on it...
(Leaf was the first US vehicle to have a J1772 handle lock (began w/model year '13). From day 1, they included control for the driver: auto (unlock when done), middle position (don't lock), lock (remain locked after charging is done).)
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RayK
Active Member
I wouldn't want to use a 14-50, or any other type of power outlet, especially if it's an uncovered parking lot. Not to say anything about the hijinks that could occur with an exposed UMC. I'm lucky enough to work for Samsung in San Jose. In our 8-story parking garage, there's two ChargePoint DC Fast stations and about 30 J1772 handles (all on floors that are covered). Employees must register an account with ChargePoint using a custom code in order to access the stations. We get 4 hours per session at the J1772 (30A) handles and 75 minutes at the DC Fast Chargers, which Model 3 users still can't use with a CHAdeMO adapter. 4 hours L2 charging with the Model 3 is about 24kWh and gets me almost 100 miles. My daily commute is about 30 miles.
Charging is free but increases to $30/hr (I believe) if over those time limits. This was done mostly to force employees to move their cars and free up space for others. It was also probably done with the assumption that EVs and plug-in hybrids didn't need much more than 100 miles to either fill the battery or cover the employee's daily commute. However there's a "feature" most of us have discovered. If you charge for four hours at one station, you can move to another and get 4 more hours for free. I do this once a week. Supposedly there's over 150 EVs and hybrids registered at work. I see a mix of i3s, Golfs, Leafs, Prii, Teslas, Bolts, Volts, MBs and Fiats.
Earlier this year the company installed solar panels over about 75% on the top floor of the parking structure:
I'm assuming this was done to support the massive amount of energy a 10-story building consumes (built a couple of years ago using green power technology), in addition to the EV charging that occurs every weekday.
In regards to assigning 50% of the parking spots for EVs, that's not going to fly yet, even in the heavily EV-populated Bay Area. Our parking garage does have dedicated clean vehicle spots but it's more like <10% of the total and there's still plenty of open spaces on the top floors where I usually park. Same goes for paying for parking. There's access control to our parking structure via license plate readers and gates (employees can register up to 5 vehicles) so it would be technically possible for us but for a company that has a ground-level parking lot right off the street, that probably won't fly either.
I realize that most companies don't have the deep pockets to invest in the parking and charging infrastructure that Samsung has, but relying on suppliers like ChargePoint to come in and install their hardware is probably the easiest solution for EV owners. If the company wants to limit vehicle charging to employees only, just tell ChargePoint that and get a special registration code. If the company wishes to subsidize charging costs, it appears they can define what the cost per kWh is going to be (zero, what Samsung has done, to whatever they think they can get away with).
RayK
Active Member
Getting back on topic...
On my trip last week from San Jose to Los Angeles I hit the Kettleman city lounge in both directions and the Glendale Galleria Superchargers three times. Each time my screen reported the charging details (power and cost). However, I've still yet to see the info hit my Tesla and credit card accounts. As far as I know, I'm not supposed to be getting free Supercharging (LR Model 3). Two sessions back in July at the Cupertino Supercharger just after I got my car did register.
Is this like "fight club"? In other words, the first rule is "don't talk about it"?
On my trip last week from San Jose to Los Angeles I hit the Kettleman city lounge in both directions and the Glendale Galleria Superchargers three times. Each time my screen reported the charging details (power and cost). However, I've still yet to see the info hit my Tesla and credit card accounts. As far as I know, I'm not supposed to be getting free Supercharging (LR Model 3). Two sessions back in July at the Cupertino Supercharger just after I got my car did register.
Is this like "fight club"? In other words, the first rule is "don't talk about it"?
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