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Project Better Place
- Thread starter tonybelding
- Start date
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- Electric Vehicles
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Do you have any references to back that up? Since the battery is probably the single most expensive component of an EV to build I don't see a lot of room to jack up the profit margin on it.
if I see the pricing for Model S and the $10.000 jumps between 160 230 300 miles pack. I see at least half as raw profit to cover cost of development. the chinese cells with 2200mAh are priced around 20cent. Even if the panasonic cells with a higher quality may cost 1-2$, there is enough left to make profit out of this.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
The cells Tesla uses are certainly much more expensive, and there is a lot of design, labor, and materials involved in assembling, monitoring, and controlling a pack. The price of Chinese commodity cells is irrelevant. Even at $2 per cell a Roadster pack is $13,662 just for the cells.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Not to bring this further off topic, but last I checked, the average cell price in the 18650 industry in 2008 was still above $2USD (~$2.20). (From Hideo Takeshita's presentation at the 2008 International Battery Seminar).
In the 2009 seminar, he estimated costs for 6381 x (2400mah 18650 + FET + Fuse) to be $18k. Then you have to add the cooling, casing, electronics costs.
Plus I'm willing to bet the cells in the 300 mile Model S sells for higher than industry average, since they are newly released. They probably make some margin, but I don't think it is anywhere close to half, esp. once you count the costs besides from the cells.
I think most of the margin in the Model S will be like traditional cars: made from the final car price plus options.
In the 2009 seminar, he estimated costs for 6381 x (2400mah 18650 + FET + Fuse) to be $18k. Then you have to add the cooling, casing, electronics costs.
Plus I'm willing to bet the cells in the 300 mile Model S sells for higher than industry average, since they are newly released. They probably make some margin, but I don't think it is anywhere close to half, esp. once you count the costs besides from the cells.
I think most of the margin in the Model S will be like traditional cars: made from the final car price plus options.
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Tesla values 20kWh for $10.000.
Here the topic is "better place". in my opinion, the carmakers (Tesla included) cannot give away to profit from their battery pack to someone else by passing this to other companies like Better Place.
This quotes the cost of $300 per kWh. The difference is the raw profit.
Here the topic is "better place". in my opinion, the carmakers (Tesla included) cannot give away to profit from their battery pack to someone else by passing this to other companies like Better Place.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
The vertical pack looks larger to me. I'm still mystified why a country the size of Israel where the average daily trip is probably 20 miles would need a swappable pack when a LEAF can easily do 4 times that range on a single charge.
Yes, I know, but I think the sedan could have had a Leaf / Model S style flat pack too just like the SUV type vehicle.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Average is a poor statstic for this purpose. How many trips do most families make in a year that would exceed 100 (or 70) miles that Leaf has ?
Afterall the average US daily trip is about 40 miles ...
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I don't know, but how many families have only one vehicle? And how many fast charge stations would it take to cover Israel for essentially endless travel? I don't see a lot of road trips to neighboring countries for your average Israeli, considering. I also don't think we need to worry about the range of current EV's since production can't keep up with demand. We have a lot of time before we end up with unsold EV's sitting on lots because they don't have enough range. I predict it never happens.
How many Israeli families live in an apartment without the facility for driveway charging? How many can't charge on the street? Probably a lot.
How many Israelis want to use their country to demonstrate a system that can end reliance on arab oil for an entire nation?
I probably fit this average daily drive below 40 miles statistic too: I take the (electric) train to work, walk to the shops and when I drive it's normally to my mum's on a weekend every few weeks (100 miles), to Scotland a couple of times a year (440 miles) or to France for holidays (400 miles).
How many Israelis want to use their country to demonstrate a system that can end reliance on arab oil for an entire nation?
I probably fit this average daily drive below 40 miles statistic too: I take the (electric) train to work, walk to the shops and when I drive it's normally to my mum's on a weekend every few weeks (100 miles), to Scotland a couple of times a year (440 miles) or to France for holidays (400 miles).
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