Quality Issues

[Gavyne]

People should always reject cars that do not meet their expectation. The tolerance levels are quite different from person to person. A car with a tiny scratch or alignment issue may be a big deal to you. But to someone else out there they would gladly take that car and be 100% happy with it. I'm not exaggerating. That's why I always suggest rather than take a car then make videos to complain about it afterwards, you should reject at delivery and take another car. If you do accept the car, it's on you to work with Tesla to get things fixed afterwards.

Overwhelming majority of the people out there do not care one bit about panel gaps, or how the headlights don't sit perfectly flush. I'll be honest before I learned about Tesla early this year, I never once looked at the panel gaps of a car. Most don't care about a tiny scratch or swirls that they can't see standing more than 2 feet away either. People wonder why Tesla don't fix some of these issues before delivery. Well it's because many people would gladly take them without question. It's business, why spend the time and money to fix something when there are more than enough people out there willing to take the product. That's why they'll work to fix issues for you afterwards for those that care to bring them up.

You should see some Model 3's and how beat up they look after a week of ownership. Many out there know before long the car would get dirty, dinged up by road debris, and scraped by shopping carts. So while some of us are OCD about keeping the car clean and free of scratches, many simply don't give a flying monkey's butt.

Anyways, you should always reject the car if you are not happy with it. Let someone else take that car. At the same time you should be happy with the car if you're fine with how it looks, to you. Don't get upset about something just because someone else pointed out something that never bothered you before.

 

[HighandDry]

Absolutely agree with you. In my case, I took delivery on a cloudy, rainy day in Seattle and I didn't notice my paint issues until 2 weeks later when it stopped raining. If I had seen the paint defects, I would have rejected the car.
However, quality issues shouldn't really depend on what is acceptable to most people. Quality should be inherent to the product. Most people may not care about panel gaps, paint issues, squeaks, or rattles, however in ANY car, these shouldn't even be issues. It's really kind of silly that you have to even think about these issues at delivery.

 

[Glamisduner]

I think you guys are underestimating how bad some of the cars that are delivered are. Resprays are sometimes required. Just an example there first delivery attempt had a door ding in the middle of the driver's side door removing a large piece of clear coat probably down to the primer, and 2 or 3 other noticable paint chips as well. Of course I rejected it. But then I had to borrow a truck to drive around while I waited. When the next one came in it had panel alignment issues and a 2+" scratch all the way down to the metal, But i ended up taking it because my interest rate was about to go up and i would have to re for a loan, and continue diving around a 3500 for who knows hope long.

The repainted the bad spots, in Pearl white (much harder than silver to match).

While some people might not notice these things... IMO, when your spending nearly $80,000, it's not acceptable whether or not people notice the flaws. I didn't bother to have them fix the fish eyes and large paint nibs that still annoy me to this day, and people have pointed then out to me so it's not like they are not noticable.

 

[Gavyne]

Never said it was acceptable for the inconsistent qualities to continue. But you would also be mistaken if you think improvements won't be made on this one of a kind, first year mass production vehicle. It's hard to believe but the Model 3 has only been released to the public for 1 year, and majority of the mass production didn't start to happen until 5-6 months ago. It has been rehashed to death, Tesla simply had no other way to ramp up production without going bankrupt. Many other car companies tried, many many have failed.

They didn't just build on an existing architecture or just another ICE/Hybrid car, they built something brand new not yet seen on the market. Brand new battery architecture, new powertrain, state of the art console tech, 310+ miles rated range, exotic sports car acceleration, best driver's assist capabilities on the market, oh and it also is the safest car on the road to boot. So they had to sacrifice some paint blemishes and panel gaps while getting there. This is why for many, they're willing to give them a pass for some cosmetic issues since the car drives amazing and that there's just nothing like it.

I would be more critical of them if I didn't see them trying to improve. Now that they've ramped up and are profitable, we are seeing them starting to address issues affecting quality & experience.

They recently patented new clamping assembly to address panel gap issues: Tesla patent addresses panel gaps using clever clamping assembly

They recently bought trucking companies to ensure better deliveries (a lot of the cosmetic issues happen during transport btw): Tesla buys trucking companies to shorten Model 3 delivery times for tax credit by the end of the year

They're ramping up service centers and Supercharger locations. Supercharger locations exploded in December. Point is things are coming together, so it shouldn't be long before they further improve on the paint qualities. Like I said, don't accept a car if you aren't happy with it. If you really want superior paint qualities and finishes, there are other EV choices for you. Even Elon tells you to buy other EV's if you don't want a Tesla. But don't expect the same feels when it comes to drivetrain, range, acceleration, and tech.

 

[Jaywlker]

Because the problems are not being resolved.

That is a very good reason. What service center is local to you? How frustrating!

 

[Jaywlker]

Never said it was acceptable for the inconsistent qualities to continue. But you would also be mistaken if you think improvements won't be made on this one of a kind, first year mass production vehicle. It's hard to believe but the Model 3 has only been released to the public for 1 year, and majority of the mass production didn't start to happen until 5-6 months ago. It has been rehashed to death, Tesla simply had no other way to ramp up production without going bankrupt. Many other car companies tried, many many have failed.

They didn't just build on an existing architecture or just another ICE/Hybrid car, they built something brand new not yet seen on the market. Brand new battery architecture, new powertrain, state of the art console tech, 310+ miles rated range, exotic sports car acceleration, best driver's assist capabilities on the market, oh and it also is the safest car on the road to boot. So they had to sacrifice some paint blemishes and panel gaps while getting there. This is why for many, they're willing to give them a pass for some cosmetic issues since the car drives amazing and that there's just nothing like it.

I would be more critical of them if I didn't see them trying to improve. Now that they've ramped up and are profitable, we are seeing them starting to address issues affecting quality & experience.

They recently patented new clamping assembly to address panel gap issues: Tesla patent addresses panel gaps using clever clamping assembly

They recently bought trucking companies to ensure better deliveries (a lot of the cosmetic issues happen during transport btw): Tesla buys trucking companies to shorten Model 3 delivery times for tax credit by the end of the year

They're ramping up service centers and Supercharger locations. Supercharger locations exploded in December. Point is things are coming together, so it shouldn't be long before they further improve on the paint qualities. Like I said, don't accept a car if you aren't happy with it. If you really want superior paint qualities and finishes, there are other EV choices for you. Even Elon tells you to buy other EV's if you don't want a Tesla. But don't expect the same feels when it comes to drivetrain, range, acceleration, and tech.

I agree with eveything you’ve posted. But at the same time, my service center has adressed / is addressing every issue I’ve raised with them, to the tiniest little thing. My windsheild had small nicks on delivery, but broke AFTER delivery from a rock on the highway, and the North Scottsdale SC is replacing the glass for free. They are replacing my wife’s M3’s high voltage battery. They are respraying our trunk lids. They replaced my charging port. They’ve provided a loaner Mercedes when keeping our M3s. Tesla did an interest rate rebate, and is paying the difference between their 3.99% loan and the lower rate I qualified for within 7 days of delivery. Etc..., etc...

What I am getting at is the fact that Tesla has gone to great lengths to ensure that I am entirely happy and satisfied. If they had done the opposite, as expressed by my fellow owners in this thread, I’d be upset, too. It is an expensive car, and apparently some service centers need to take a longer view. I hope everyone gets their cars’ issues resolved to their satisfaction.

 

[spinbackwards]

Howdy,

I just noticed when it's snowy and the car is wet, when you lift the trunk a little water comes in.

I was like, "C'mon Elon. That's bunk".

Peace and love,

 

[Jaywlker]

I think that the people who are so quick to get a re-spray really don't understand how a re-spray differs from original OEM paint job. When your car is painted at the factory, it starts out with just the virgin metal. The surface is prepped and primed with different chemicals/methods than can be done by re-sprays. The paint is applied by robots in dust free rooms. The robots apply the paint thinly, fast, and uniform- much better than a human can do. Lastly, since there are no interior trim pieces, the paint is baked on at 400 degrees.
I'm not saying that a re-spray is going to be terrible, but I'm saying that the factory paint is usually the best.
Even though I have paint blotches on my car, I have decided not to do any kind of re-spray. There is no way that they can 100% match the metallic silver and it likely will look worse. Also the durability of the paint job is likely to be worse and having the body shop take off panels, trim, etc for painting is likely going to cause other issues.

One reason I went with black: easier to blend and match. I hope the pronlems with your car get resolved.

 

[acoste]

They didn't just build on an existing architecture or just another ICE/Hybrid car, they built something brand new not yet seen on the market. Brand new battery architecture, new powertrain, state of the art console tech, 310+ miles rated range, exotic sports car acceleration, best driver's assist capabilities on the market, oh and it also is the safest car on the road to boot. So they had to sacrifice some paint blemishes and panel gaps while getting there. This is why for many, they're willing to give them a pass for some cosmetic issues since the car drives amazing and that there's just nothing like it.

I would be more critical of them if I didn't see them trying to improve. Now that they've ramped up and are profitable, we are seeing them starting to address issues affecting quality & experience.

As an engineer, I'm not that impressed as you. There is not much new in this car. Steel chassis, electric power train. These exists for several decades for now. Acceleration depends on how the motor is sized. No need to invent there anything either. Controlling the system using a tablet is also the simplest solution nowadays. Software contains numerous bugs at every update. An electric car contains far less number of parts as an ICE and so it should be a lot more reliable. Yet the opposite is happening here. Battery chemistry is new, but that comes from Panasonic. Just a new case and cooling system for the battery isn't that complicated. It is all about the money. They needed to sell cars, nothing else mattered.

 

[voip-ninja]

As an engineer, I'm not that impressed as you. There is not much new in this car. Steel chassis, electric power train. These exists for several decades for now. Acceleration depends on how the motor is sized. No need to invent there anything either. Controlling the system using a tablet is also the simplest solution nowadays. Software contains numerous bugs at every update. An electric car contains far less number of parts as an ICE and so it should be a lot more reliable. Yet the opposite is happening here. Battery chemistry is new, but that comes from Panasonic. Just a new case and cooling system for the battery isn't that complicated. It is all about the money. They needed to sell cars, nothing else mattered.

You sure have an awful lot of opinions about a car you don't own and possibly haven't even driven for any length of time.

Your second statement is false. If nothing else mattered they wouldn't be trying to make right with those owners who got cars that didn't live up to their standards or Tesla's.

I think Tesla is in a tough spot. There are some powerful people, including billionaire hedge fund managers who are doing everything they can to kill the company, or to make it so expensive to borrow money that Tesla is forced to sell their business or go bankrupt.

The choice was to wait 6-12 months and build a "perfect" car or build the best car they possibly could and then fix the ones that slip through the cracks.

Also.... most of the problems seen in the video appear to be damage caused in transport of the car. The panel misalignment might not be up to the best the Germans and Japanese can do but my 1st generation BMW F30 had some noticeable panel misalignments and it didn't ruin my enjoyment of that car any more than the minor misalignments on my Tesla ruin my enjoyment of that car.... and FWIW the Tesla is 10X the driving experience of any of my last 4 turbo charged cars.

For full disclosure don't you work for a legacy automaker or component supplier? It would also be good to have a list of all the boards that you spend your time bashing Tesla on as I can think of at least three where that's what you are doing.

 

[lklundin]

I just recently watched this video and didn't think it was THAT bad. However I did think those scratches to the paint were unacceptable.

Boy, I predict the German media will go bat sh*t crazy if they get to interview a German standing disappointed next to his Model 3, pointing to obvious paint flaws.

That will push _any_ other automotive news completely off the radar.

 

[lklundin]

I think that the people who are so quick to get a re-spray really don't understand how a re-spray differs from original OEM paint job.

Such non-factory re-spray will reduce the resale value of the car, since the non-uniformity of the paint thickness is one of the things any serious appraisal will take in to account.

 

[acoste]

You sure have an awful lot of opinions about a car you don't own and possibly haven't even driven for any length of time.

Your second statement is false. If nothing else mattered they wouldn't be trying to make right with those owners who got cars that didn't live up to their standards or Tesla's.

I think Tesla is in a tough spot. There are some powerful people, including billionaire hedge fund managers who are doing everything they can to kill the company, or to make it so expensive to borrow money that Tesla is forced to sell their business or go bankrupt.

The choice was to wait 6-12 months and build a "perfect" car or build the best car they possibly could and then fix the ones that slip through the cracks.

Also.... most of the problems seen in the video appear to be damage caused in transport of the car. The panel misalignment might not be up to the best the Germans and Japanese can do but my 1st generation BMW F30 had some noticeable panel misalignments and it didn't ruin my enjoyment of that car any more than the minor misalignments on my Tesla ruin my enjoyment of that car.... and FWIW the Tesla is 10X the driving experience of any of my last 4 turbo charged cars.

For full disclosure don't you work for a legacy automaker or component supplier? It would also be good to have a list of all the boards that you spend your time bashing Tesla on as I can think of at least three where that's what you are doing.

My work is not related to one specific car maker. This is why I can see the industry well. I don't want Tesla to go bankrupt or anything. But I can see how mismanaged it is, which results in bad quality. Tesla needs a new mentality, stand up and fix their products, make them safe.

 

[voip-ninja]

My work is not related to one specific car maker. This is why I can see the industry well. I don't want Tesla to go bankrupt or anything. But I can see how mismanaged it is, which results in bad quality. Tesla needs a new mentality, stand up and fix their products, make them safe.

What needs to be fixed and how is the car that got the highest safety rating out of any passenger car not safe?

Let's just say that I find your claimed motives incredibly hard to believe.

 

[Glamisduner]

Such non-factory re-spray will reduce the resale value of the car, since the non-uniformity of the paint thickness is one of the things any serious appraisal will take in to account.

It can, but these are mass produced cars, you might get one that looks perfect that had already been resprayed.... its not line they have been in an accident so I wouldn't worry much about that. We are not talking about complete panel respray in most cases either.

 

[HighandDry]

As an engineer, I'm not that impressed as you. There is not much new in this car. Steel chassis, electric power train. These exists for several decades for now. Acceleration depends on how the motor is sized. No need to invent there anything either. Controlling the system using a tablet is also the simplest solution nowadays. Software contains numerous bugs at every update. An electric car contains far less number of parts as an ICE and so it should be a lot more reliable. Yet the opposite is happening here. Battery chemistry is new, but that comes from Panasonic. Just a new case and cooling system for the battery isn't that complicated. It is all about the money. They needed to sell cars, nothing else mattered.

This post is malarkey.
FWIW, I started this thread not to bash Tesla. I love the car and I think it's head and shoulders above anything out there. I would buy my X again without hesitation.
The purpose of the thread was just to point out that Tesla still has significant work to do in terms of quality control.
For anyone to imply that starting a successful car company (ICE or otherwise) is easy is just stupid. Tesla really started the electric car revolution.

 

[acoste]

What needs to be fixed and how is the car that got the highest safety rating out of any passenger cars not safe?

Let's just say that I find your claimed motives incredibly hard to believe.

That's fine.

First, they picked the least safe battery type. That has to be addressed. But my greatest criticism about safety is how they handle the autopilot project. Others play it safe, Tesla just wants to be the first one and don't mind adding risks on the users.

 

[voip-ninja]

That's fine.

First, they picked the least safe battery type. That has to be addressed. But my greatest criticism about safety is how they handle the autopilot project. Others play it safe, Tesla just wants to be the first one and don't mind adding risks on the users.

Anyone who wants to believe your complete FUD around battery safety needs to go read paranoiddroid's response to you on Bimmerfest where you were completely schooled.

You are not a battery engineer.

Accidents per mile show that AP is actually very safe. You would have to demonstrate how it compares in accidents per mile of use to other traffic aware cruise control with autosteer systems for there to be any validity to your claims it is 1. unsafe, 2. less safe than competitors.

Your posts speak for themselves. You do not come across one bit as someone who legitimately wants Tesla to succeed but just wishes they would make a few changes.

Maybe you could elaborate on what some paint defects and panel gaps have to do with automotive safety since that's the topic under discussion.

 

[acoste]

Anyone who wants to believe your complete FUD around battery safety needs to go read paranoiddroid's response to you on Bimmerfest where you were completely schooled.

You are not a battery engineer.

Accidents per mile show that AP is actually very safe. You would have to demonstrate how it compares in accidents per mile of use to other traffic aware cruise control with autosteer systems for there to be any validity to your claims it is 1. unsafe, 2. less safe than competitors.

Your posts speak for themselves. You do not come across one bit as someone who legitimately wants Tesla to succeed but just wishes they would make a few changes.

Maybe you could elaborate on what some paint defects and panel gaps have to do with automotive safety since that's the topic under discussion.

paranoiddroid doesn't know much about batteries. He is wrong on many points. Even mixed up battery types and their properties.

 

[voip-ninja]

paranoiddroid doesn't know much about batteries. He is wrong on many points. Even mixed up battery types and their properties.

paranoid is literally a battery engineer. He knows more about batteries than you do. Clearly.