Question about Micro Inverters vs. String.. And some more?

[Fragger]

Hello, fellow Tesla friends,

After being Model S owners and being hounded by seemingly endless sales heavy calls from the Solar companies, we've decided to pull the trigger with Tesla energy as it seems like their per Watt price of $1.49 (after incentives) really does seem to be unbeatable! We're moving forward with this in the Austin, TX area. Can you guys help with a couple of questions? I feel like Tesla can sometimes give you the runaround:

1. Albeit we're a family looking to grow in the coming years, our current usage is averaging around 1000 kWh for the year. Entering this in the Tesla ordering system and our actual first proposal from Tesla, we're coming upto the 8.12 kWh system with around 12,xxx generated per year. For anyone in this area of the country, can you guys confirm this is the cheapest cost y'all have seen for solar, overall?

2. We won't profess to being technical gurus of the solar technology, but in general, everyone seems to recommend that micro inverters are the way to go to beat shading as well as expansion issues. Well, the sales guy told us the ultimate decision on what we get from Tesla is their prerogative, however, if we insist we want the micro inverters, they should be able to oblige. Well, our proposal came back with the SolarEdge string inverters. We have wrote back with a request to get the micro ones. Can someone share their experience on this topic? Did they oblige? Which one is actually better? We actually have possibly zero shading issues and back of the house faces South.

3. We also went through a referral with another family account. The referring order account says in the app that referred account has canceled their order. However, the sales person sent us a document showing that the referal came through via our other account. We're asking Tesla to look into this... Anyone experience this? What was your experience?

4. We're intending on leveraging some cash back opportunities with our credit cards... And pay in full. However, the card with the post points/rewards has a low credit limit even with the increase on the limit. Anyone have experience of making the pay two times over a course of time?


Thank you all in advance!

 

[Ampster]

Can someone share their experience on this topic? Did they oblige? Which one is actually better? We actually have possibly zero shading issues and back of the house faces South.

I have 2 Solaredge systems, 2 Enphase micro inverter systems and another system unrelated to your inquiry. I doubt you will have much luck getting Tesla to change their mind on a cookie cutter system. I don't have any experience with Tesla except 4 years ago they were not interested in bidding on a install on a flat gravel roof. As far as micros versus Optimizers I can see no difference in my systems, some of which are more than five years old. I can't say one is actually better than the other. I think it all depends on who you talk to.
If had some of my systems to do over knowing what I know today, I would pick the Tesla low priced system. The only exception to that would be the micros on my patio cover because it has shade and Tesla does not do installs on patio covers..

 

[arnolddeleon]

I wouldn't worry about future expansion. @nwdiver has the details on why in the vast majority cases the premium for micro inverters or optimizers is not worth it. You are usually better off spending your money on a larger system assuming you are not space constrained (or pocket the savings). Basically don't obsess over micro inverters.

Remember the cost of solar in the long run will just continue to go down. I've purchased solar 18 years, 12 years, and 5 years ago plus a rental property with existing Solar City/Tesla solar. Tesla's current prices are really good.

1000 kWh/year doesn't sound right. Smells more like a monthly number. An 8.12 kW system very roughly should generate around 1200 kWh/month so I think you are talking about your typical monthly usage. Someone closer to you should know what is typical for your region.

 

[BrettS]

1. Albeit we're a family looking to grow in the coming years, our current usage is averaging around 1000 kWh for the year. Entering this in the Tesla ordering system and our actual first proposal from Tesla, we're coming upto the 8.12 kWh system with around 12,xxx generated per year. For anyone in this area of the country, can you guys confirm this is the cheapest cost y'all have seen for solar, overall?

I believe that Tesla is the cheapest option for solar right now (Other than doing the whole project yourself, which is not possible for most folks). However, that cheap price does come at a cost. Tesla can be a bit difficult to work with and their sales and project management customer service is not the best. As you have noticed, Tesla tends to have cookie cutter designs for their solar systems and they also have some set parameters of where they will install solar.

For example, we recently had someone who said that they had gone through the entire process and Tesla showed up on install day and discovered that their concrete tile roof was too light to install on. That’s kind of an extreme example in that normally it doesn’t get that far before the blocker is discovered, but there are some roof types and other factors that will cause Tesla to flat out refuse an install.

Additionally it’s not uncommon to go days or sometimes even weeks waiting for a permit or an inspection with little or no contact from Tesla to let you know what the status of the project is. It can also be difficult to get in touch with your project manager to see exactly what’s going on with your project.

I say all this not to discourage you from using Tesla, but more to set your expectations. Some people expect a white glove approach with someone holding their hand through the whole process. If that’s you, then Tesla solar is probably not the best fit. On the other hand if you’re willing to deal with the customer service issues and your house fits into the mold that Tesla wants to install on (most houses do) then you can get a great solar system at a great price. Despite all the customer service issues Tesla installs a great product and their install teams are very good at what they do. The price is cheap the quality is great, but the customer service could be improved.

2. We won't profess to being technical gurus of the solar technology, but in general, everyone seems to recommend that micro inverters are the way to go to beat shading as well as expansion issues. Well, the sales guy told us the ultimate decision on what we get from Tesla is their prerogative, however, if we insist we want the micro inverters, they should be able to oblige. Well, our proposal came back with the SolarEdge string inverters. We have wrote back with a request to get the micro ones. Can someone share their experience on this topic? Did they oblige? Which one is actually better? We actually have possibly zero shading issues and back of the house faces South.

Tesla has not ever and will not install a system with micro inverters. That is just something they don’t do. As I said above, one of the ways they keep the price down is by being very inflexible.

However, that said, the systems they do install with SolarEdge inverters use power optimizers, which perform most of the same functions as micro inverters, but in a different way. The power optimizers are installed on each panel and work to optimize that panel’s output to minimize any shading or panel orientation dissimilarities.

I’ve seen a lot of installers who badmouth Tesla because they don’t use micro inverters and I’m not sure if it’s just misinformation or just downright deception, but you will get all of the shading benefits of micro inverters with the solaredge power optimizers.

I can’t really speak to your other questions, so I’ll leave those to someone else. But good luck with your project. I had Tesla solar and powerwalls installed in June and I’ve been very happy with my system.

 

[BrettS]

1000 kWh/year doesn't sound right. Smells more like a monthly number.

I was a little confused at that number at first, but I think what he was saying is that over the year he averages 1000kWh per month. So 12000kWh annually.

 

[eight]

Benefit of the micro inverters is purely to cope with partial shading, splitting strings up into smaller strings.
If you have a string inverter and half the panels on that string are shaded it won't perform.
The micro inverters will allow every unshaded panel to generate full power.
OP - if you have zero shading issues there's no point in getting micro inverters.
Also note the micros are sometimes fitted underneath the panels so if you get an inverter failure it's an on-roof panels-off job to fix.

 

[trautmane2]

Anyone have experience of making the pay two times over a course of time?

I don't have direct experience (yet), but hope to do something similar once my system gets installed. The Tesla advisor I spoke to confirmed that you can pay with a credit card (and no fee) if you handle payment over the phone with Tesla's billing department. Payment options are more limited if you pay via the online site.

I have seen others post that they were able to work with Tesla's billing department to pay using the same credit card multiple times where they made a partial payment, then immediately paid their credit card balance, and then went back to Tesla and made another payment.

Using a Credit Card or Paypal to pay for TESLA Solar

 

[MXLRplus]

This is probably no help since the system I designed and installed is 'flat roof', but here goes:

There are two flavors of SolarEdge optimizers. Some do one panel per optimizer, the other does two. Mine are the paired-style.

I had one failure in >3 years. It was easy to track down and easy to fix and did not affect production much (1 out of 36 optimizers). SolarEdge shipped me another immediately.

In my situation, there is an area that is shaded every day, all year long. The panels that are shaded change based on time. ie - removing/moving the panels that are shaded is not going to help since different panels are shaded at different hours, there is only a 2-3hr window when no panels are shaded.

Without optimizers, my output would be cut in 1/2, no exaggeration. I base this on the # of hours x the % of derating. Yes, the SE optimizers and inverters let you know exactly what each panel puts out and when.

Note: Without optimizers, if a panel fails, you have to guess at which one failed. With optimizers you know the exactly location of a panel or optimizer fault.

 

[charlesj]

Benefit of the micro inverters is purely to cope with partial shading, splitting strings up into smaller strings.
If you have a string inverter and half the panels on that string are shaded it won't perform.
The micro inverters will allow every unshaded panel to generate full power.
OP - if you have zero shading issues there's no point in getting micro inverters.
Also note the micros are sometimes fitted underneath the panels so if you get an inverter failure it's an on-roof panels-off job to fix.

Yep, on roof replacement.
The benefit is that if you have one or two main inverter and one fails, the panels connected to them is off for duration of replacement of inverter. Very unlikely to have mass failures with micros.

I had to replace on in June. As I installed my whole solar myself, it wasn't difficult just tricky to undo in the middle of the pack. A 2nd person would be most helpful in holding on to the panel while other replacing the inverter.

 

[charlesj]

... And pay in full. However, the card with the post points/rewards has a low credit limit even with the increase on the limit. Anyone have experience of making the pay two times over a course of time?


Thank you all in advance!

I did as a number of others here also used the card and two payments.
Lets say you have a $10k limit and already have some charges.
First you may want to confirm that Tesla accountant will still do two payments close together.

I sent a payment to the CC to cover half of the bill plus what was charged already. My credit union did this on line paying quickly as I already pay through them. Called CC to confirm receipt and called Tesla to make that 1/2 charge. I again called CC next day or so to make sure this was done. Then sent another 1/2 payment from credit union account to CC and called tesla again.
If it takes 3 payments for you, I think Tesla will understand and go along.

An important note though. Talk to an agent with the CC not the recording that lags well behind of payments charged and payments made.

 

[Fragger]

Hi Friends,

Thank you so so much for the very informative and helpful posts. I think we're satisfied with all the real world reviews you gave that SolarEdge inverters with optimizers will meet our needs. I just had to ask because the sales person more or less said we could just request micro and that they'll do it.

I have 2 Solaredge systems, 2 Enphase micro inverter systems and another system unrelated to your inquiry. I doubt you will have much luck getting Tesla to change their mind on a cookie cutter system. I don't have any experience with Tesla except 4 years ago they were not interested in bidding on a install on a flat gravel roof. As far as micros versus Optimizers I can see no difference in my systems, some of which are more than five years old. I can't say one is actually better than the other. I think it all depends on who you talk to.
If had some of my systems to do over knowing what I know today, I would pick the Tesla low priced system. The only exception to that would be the micros on my patio cover because it has shade and Tesla does not do installs on patio covers..

Thank you for your experience. We so have one part of the roof that might be on the patio. So it's good to have your input.

I wouldn't worry about future expansion. @nwdiver has the details on why in the vast majority cases the premium for micro inverters or optimizers is not worth it. You are usually better off spending your money on a larger system assuming you are not space constrained (or pocket the savings). Basically don't obsess over micro inverters.

Remember the cost of solar in the long run will just continue to go down. I've purchased solar 18 years, 12 years, and 5 years ago plus a rental property with existing Solar City/Tesla solar. Tesla's current prices are really good.

1000 kWh/year doesn't sound right. Smells more like a monthly number. An 8.12 kW system very roughly should generate around 1200 kWh/month so I think you are talking about your typical monthly usage. Someone closer to you should know what is typical for your region.

Thank you for sharing your vast experience as well. I meant their estimated the generation at 12,xxx kWh for the system per year and our monthly usage seems to average out at about a 1000 kWh for the year, each month. So in theory the system should meet our needs.

I believe that Tesla is the cheapest option for solar right now (Other than doing the whole project yourself, which is not possible for most folks). However, that cheap price does come at a cost. Tesla can be a bit difficult to work with and their sales and project management customer service is not the best. As you have noticed, Tesla tends to have cookie cutter designs for their solar systems and they also have some set parameters of where they will install solar.

For example, we recently had someone who said that they had gone through the entire process and Tesla showed up on install day and discovered that their concrete tile roof was too light to install on. That’s kind of an extreme example in that normally it doesn’t get that far before the blocker is discovered, but there are some roof types and other factors that will cause Tesla to flat out refuse an install.

Additionally it’s not uncommon to go days or sometimes even weeks waiting for a permit or an inspection with little or no contact from Tesla to let you know what the status of the project is. It can also be difficult to get in touch with your project manager to see exactly what’s going on with your project.

I say all this not to discourage you from using Tesla, but more to set your expectations. Some people expect a white glove approach with someone holding their hand through the whole process. If that’s you, then Tesla solar is probably not the best fit. On the other hand if you’re willing to deal with the customer service issues and your house fits into the mold that Tesla wants to install on (most houses do) then you can get a great solar system at a great price. Despite all the customer service issues Tesla installs a great product and their install teams are very good at what they do. The price is cheap the quality is great, but the customer service could be improved.



Tesla has not ever and will not install a system with micro inverters. That is just something they don’t do. As I said above, one of the ways they keep the price down is by being very inflexible.

However, that said, the systems they do install with SolarEdge inverters use power optimizers, which perform most of the same functions as micro inverters, but in a different way. The power optimizers are installed on each panel and work to optimize that panel’s output to minimize any shading or panel orientation dissimilarities.

I’ve seen a lot of installers who badmouth Tesla because they don’t use micro inverters and I’m not sure if it’s just misinformation or just downright deception, but you will get all of the shading benefits of micro inverters with the solaredge power optimizers.

I can’t really speak to your other questions, so I’ll leave those to someone else. But good luck with your project. I had Tesla solar and powerwalls installed in June and I’ve been very happy with my system.

Great response here, my friend. Much like my experience buying a car from Tesla, their service leaves a whole lot to be desired and falls real short of the perceived white glove service of the brand and then reality of their service (or the lack thereof) hits... ! Even our experience so far, the sales guy fed us some inaccurate information and our project manager is rather short and sometimes doesn't cover all questions.

But on the whole, it's like you said, their system will fit our needs and as long as we set our expectations right, we should be alright with no one else beating their price.

Benefit of the micro inverters is purely to cope with partial shading, splitting strings up into smaller strings.
If you have a string inverter and half the panels on that string are shaded it won't perform.
The micro inverters will allow every unshaded panel to generate full power.
OP - if you have zero shading issues there's no point in getting micro inverters.
Also note the micros are sometimes fitted underneath the panels so if you get an inverter failure it's an on-roof panels-off job to fix.

Got it, thanks for the info... Yes... We have zero shading issues, I believe...

I don't have direct experience (yet), but hope to do something similar once my system gets installed. The Tesla advisor I spoke to confirmed that you can pay with a credit card (and no fee) if you handle payment over the phone with Tesla's billing department. Payment options are more limited if you pay via the online site.

I have seen others post that they were able to work with Tesla's billing department to pay using the same credit card multiple times where they made a partial payment, then immediately paid their credit card balance, and then went back to Tesla and made another payment.

Using a Credit Card or Paypal to pay for TESLA Solar

Thank you for sharing this. I hope they're still allowing for this cause the cash back from the cards can sweeten this pot even more. Will you please DM/PM me if you find a way to exactly pull this off?

I did as a number of others here also used the card and two payments.
Lets say you have a $10k limit and already have some charges.
First you may want to confirm that Tesla accountant will still do two payments close together.

I sent a payment to the CC to cover half of the bill plus what was charged already. My credit union did this on line paying quickly as I already pay through them. Called CC to confirm receipt and called Tesla to make that 1/2 charge. I again called CC next day or so to make sure this was done. Then sent another 1/2 payment from credit union account to CC and called tesla again.
If it takes 3 payments for you, I think Tesla will understand and go along.

An important note though. Talk to an agent with the CC not the recording that lags well behind of payments charged and payments made.

Thank you for your experience as well! I think we have the same exact situation. However, our project manager is telling us ACH payments only while our sales guy (who has mysteriously) stopped responding to us since the sale said CC payments were possible. Is it OK to PM/DM you for your exact method on how you pulled it off? Cause we have inconsistent accounts and information on this topic...

Thank you all!