Reactions to Model X reveal event

[ohmman]

Wow. That's my summary of this thread.

On the positive side, it reminded me that there's this wonderful feature called the ignore list here. I'd never used it until now. Nice stuff.

I never thought I'd say this, but I kind of wish there was a verified owner/reservation holder side of this site, similar to what the "other" guys have. I value the opinions and input from a lot of people that fall outside of that list, but the bubble is growing so large here that it's hard to even hear them.

 

[AudubonB]

SECOND-DAY REACTION

Okay, as a follow-up to my earlier (post #50) entry My biggest surprise? They didn't show the seats folded for max cargo - Page 5,

I'm turning a familiar meme on its head:

Looks like I'm gonna need a smaller trailer

But that's okay!

 

[Beryl]

If Tesla never get AutoPilot to work, is it alright because theoretically it could be done with the hardware you purchased and Tesla never promised a firm deadline on enabling the feature?

Tesla screwed up on the 2nd row seats, plain and simple. This is what I was expecting and this is what they shown before. Shall I assume that any feature that they promise and any rendering that they show are complete BS until the final product is delivered?

Even though I'm still onboard with purchasing the MX when my time comes, even with the seats that don't fold down, I agree with you. It is a pity that the folding seats did not make it in the final product since many early reservations were based on a "concept" that was shown to them.

Every consumer rightfully has his/her own deal-breaker. Autopilot is mine. It is hard to imagine having purchased and taken delivery of an autopilot-capable MS and waiting so long. Promised autopilot features were memorialized on their website so it is not a "concept". If those features are not available on the MX by the time I am invited to configure, I will not do so.

I'm glad Elon didn't make any similar promises at the event. If he had -- even for a feature that didn't matter to me -- I might have been inclined to cancel. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than disappointed.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Can we all agree on Sea's intent here, and move on...

 

[anticitizen13.7]

"I get up around seven
Get outta bed around nine
And I don't worry about nothin' no
Cause worryin's a waste of my...time

The show usually starts around seven
We go on stage around nine
Get on the bus about eleven
Sippin' a drink and feelin' fine"

Source: http://fortune.com/2015/10/01/tesla-customer-compares-elon-musk-to-axl-rose/?xid=yahoo_fortune

 

[gizmoboy]

You don't see them? I can see them. Top red square...

View attachment 96200

I see the triangles, but I'm not convinced they are both cameras. Suggestive but far from proven, I'd say.

 

[ohmman]

"I get up around seven
Get outta bed around nine
And I don't worry about nothin' no
Cause worryin's a waste of my...time

The show usually starts around seven
We go on stage around nine
Get on the bus about eleven
Sippin' a drink and feelin' fine"

I made this comparison up thread!

Also, Brownstone – excellent choice.

 

[gizmoboy]

Yeah, I think much of Apple's innovation is hidden in improving mass production processes these days (which makes sense with Cook in charge). That and things like their ARM microarchitecture which is definitely impressive work. Tesla is still doing things that the customer can see obviously and are "moon shots". They are going to have to change a bit when producing millions of cars.

You need to look closer if you think there's no innovation going on in Apple's products.

There is no flashy innovation, but the newest iPhone has innovated in virtually every component.

Having said that, it's a stabilizing industry at this time with nothing really disruptive going on at the moment.

I'd argue the same thing can be said of Tesla excepting the EV drivetrain (which one can legitimately argue is game-changing); it's still a car and acts like pretty much every other car with that one distinguishing factor. Apart from BEV, there's nothing they're doing that isn't being done by some competitor(s) except a few flashy features that some call gimmicks (auto-presenting handles, FWD, 17" touchscreen).

The devil is always in the details, and if you're not a fanatic, you miss most of them -- and dismiss them when they're pointed out.

 

[Stoneymonster]

You need to look closer if you think there's no innovation going on in Apple's products.

There is no flashy innovation, but the newest iPhone has innovated in virtually every component.

Having said that, it's a stabilizing industry at this time with nothing really disruptive going on at the moment.

I'd argue the same thing can be said of Tesla excepting the EV drivetrain (which one can legitimately argue is game-changing); it's still a car and acts like pretty much every other car with that one distinguishing factor. Apart from BEV, there's nothing they're doing that isn't being done by some competitor(s) except a few flashy features that some call gimmicks (auto-presenting handles, FWD, 17" touchscreen).

The devil is always in the details, and if you're not a fanatic, you miss most of them -- and dismiss them when they're pointed out.

I respectfully suggest you should read what I said again.

 

[MichFin]

First of all you can't change the world in one step. Step 1 move to electric vehicles. Step 2 move to renewable sources of energy. And yes these steps can be done at the same time. So maybe in 20 years we will have clean cars and clean electricity.

For me the reasons I bought my Model S

- This is the future and I want to be part of it
- Most amazing car ever
- Great for the environment
- American built
- The less oil people use the less money we put in the hands of terrorist

 

[gizmoboy]

I respectfully suggest you should read what I said again.

I sincerely apologize; I meant to quote AR's post. :redface:

 

[Stoneymonster]

I sincerely apologize; I meant to quote AR's post. :redface:

No worries! I was pretty sure we were in agreement, hence my confusion.

 

[tonyinc]

How often do you buy a curtain rod ? Do you really have to increase Global Warming everyday because of a curtain rod once every ten years ? You can get it delivered, or ask someone with a bigger car to help you.
The transition to electric means of transportation is crucial for the future of humanity, along with the transition to sustainable energy. Buying an ICE instead of an EV slows that transition.
It is not about Tesla. Buying a Nissan Leaf, a Renault Zoe, a BMW i3, a Chevy Volt, or an electric bike is positive, too.

You can read below for yourself. I suggest being realistic about your dogma and having some facts and avoiding positive feedback loops.

However you miss my point, read my whole post: 99% positive on Tesla and the Model X and electric cars in general.

There is a reason even compact cars have the ability. I also state that the 6 seat option is the remedy, but folding seats would be best.

It is possible to be supportive of something, but acknowledging a deficiency at the same time.

I guess we will see how many people go with the 6 seat option. I speculate that many signature reservation holders balked at the non folding seats and they had to do something.




Good Reading for you:
Bjorn Lomborg: Green Cars Have a Dirty Little Secret - WSJ

http://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/files/legacy/assets/documents/clean_vehicles/electric-car-global-warming-emissions-report.pdf

- - - Updated - - -

Huh? I'm sure others with better memories will help and correct this statement correctly. Are you absolutely sure that running an EV off an "average" US utility puts as much carbon in the air as a 40mpg ICE? I highly doubt that... I just won't easily be able to find all the actual facts and studies to refute it. So for now I'll just highly question your statement and [lazily] leave it to other better-informed people to show the truth.

You can read below for yourself. I suggest being realistic about your dogma and having some facts and avoiding positive feedback loops.

However you miss my point, read my whole post: 99% positive on Tesla and the Model X and electric cars in general.

There is a reason even compact cars have the ability. I also state that the 6 seat option is the remedy, but folding seats would be best.

It is possible to be supportive of something, but acknowledging a deficiency at the same time.

I guess we will see how many people go with the 6 seat option. I speculate that many signature reservation holders balked at the non folding seats and they had to do something.




Good Reading for you:
Bjorn Lomborg: Green Cars Have a Dirty Little Secret - WSJ

http://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/...ons-report.pdf

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Good Reading for you:
Bjorn Lomborg: Green Cars Have a Dirty Little Secret - WSJ

http://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/...ons-report.pdf

Here is some reading for you:

Bjorn Lomborg - SourceWatch

 

[GregRF]

http://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/...ons-report.pdf

That report is based on 2009 power info. Even updated to 2010 power data (still old) the outlook is even better:

http://blog.ucsusa.org/how-do-electric-cars-compare-with-gas-cars-656?_ga=1.124727950.587874142.1426028399

60 percent of Americans now live in areas where driving an EV has lower global warming emissions than even the best hybrid, up from our estimate of 45% just 3 years ago.

 

[Ugliest1]

You can read below for yourself. I suggest being realistic about your dogma and having some facts and avoiding positive feedback loops.

However you miss my point, read my whole post: 99% positive on Tesla and the Model X and electric cars in general.

There is a reason even compact cars have the ability. I also state that the 6 seat option is the remedy, but folding seats would be best.

It is possible to be supportive of something, but acknowledging a deficiency at the same time.

I guess we will see how many people go with the 6 seat option. I speculate that many signature reservation holders balked at the non folding seats and they had to do something.

Good Reading for you:
Bjorn Lomborg: Green Cars Have a Dirty Little Secret - WSJ

http://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default...ctric-car-global-warming-emissions-report.pdf

I'm afraid quoting an article in the WSJ doesn't do it for me. Notorious FUD, Murdoch-owned. I've downloaded the second article, note published the same month as the Model S initial deliveries, and will read it, thank you (but, I suspect Tesla has now turned a bunch of their conclusions on their head).

One more thing about the 40mpg comparison that I forgot to mention in my earlier post - you're equating a well-to-wheels pollution output for the Model S to merely what an ICE car generates itself, *without* the well-to-wheels factored in for drilling, transport, etc. So your comparison is completely unfair. See Robert Llewellyn's Fully Charged

I don't have any skin in the game for the 2nd row seats or the Model X specifically (although I think it will do very well in its target market), so I'm not commenting on that.

 

[Stoneymonster]

Not only that, it is now possible with ~$6k-8k worth of solar panels on your house to fully offset 12k miles of driving a Model S. Many here have done that and more. I doubt that's accounted for in 2009 figures, when solar was prohibitively expensive in many cases.

 

[Room_A113]

Here's link to Model X reservation holder and venture capitalist Stewart Alsop's reaction to the reveal event, "Dear @ElonMusk: You should be ashamed of yourself"


Dear @ElonMusk: You should be ashamed of yourself — Medium


I think I personally would have been upset with the Tesla presentation had I been in the same situation. I happened to watch the whole live-stream during the event, but only BECAUSE it was late. I went to bed at around 10 PM (I live in New Jersey), and just thought I would watch it in the morning. But I woke up at 11:40 and thought, "Let me check it out". I was amazed that the event hadn't started yet.


I was also amazed that such a critical event seemed to be poorly put together. I know Elon is a very busy guy, but I wish he would delegate a little bit, or at least share the workload. I remember the Model S launch went so much better, IMHO. I recall that George Blankeship MC'ed the event and many others spoke, including Gov. Jerry Brown, J.B. Straubel and Franz Von Holzhausen (sp?). In my opinion, the Model S launch was 100 times better.

 

[tonyinc]

First of all you can't change the world in one step. Step 1 move to electric vehicles. Step 2 move to renewable sources of energy. And yes these steps can be done at the same time. So maybe in 20 years we will have clean cars and clean electricity.

For me the reasons I bought my Model S

- This is the future and I want to be part of it
- Most amazing car ever
- Great for the environment
- American built
- The less oil people use the less money we put in the hands of terrorist

Well said! Great reasons to buy a Tesla! You don't blindly think you are not putting any carbon in the air. The key here is the S is an amazing car. Wanting the X to have a feature that pretty much all other cars/suv/cuv have is not sacrilege and I am sure Tesla will remedy it; but not if everyone is stuck in a positive feedback loop and doesn't ever question anything. Getting a folding second row to allow my dining room chair to fit will help Tesla sell more cars for sure and should not be summarily shot down and sour grapes or labeling people as haters.

 

[techmaven]

Good Reading for you:
Bjorn Lomborg: Green Cars Have a Dirty Little Secret - WSJ

http://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default...ctric-car-global-warming-emissions-report.pdf

Ah, the first one is a known troll using the infamous Hawkins study. It has been disputed in literature, as the methodology is suspect and the inputs to their methodology was garbage. For example, it uses a 1,031 pound motor as one of its inputs. The battery manufacturing inputs are also a mess, with very high inputs using European production of LiFePO4 which isn't used in a Tesla for instance. This one study comes up a lot with anti-ev writers and it seems they don't bother to actually read the study.

The second one uses the GREET model which is a good starting point, but uses 2011 data and power plant data from 2009. Since 2009, the coal industry has made some progress:

America's Best Coal Plants - Power Engineering

Also, the power production mix has also changed since 2009:

Short-Term Energy Outlook - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

The total amount of electricity generated by coal dropped by 10% since 2009. Renewables and natural gas has gone up significantly. As a result, I'm thinking these links don't support whatever point you are making since they are factually inaccurate to a significant degree.

The Mercedes B-class LCA is a much better starting point.