Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Real reasons behind selling us out to Ford in supercharging?

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
I would love to know the real story behind Elon letting Ford in on the supercharger game after they worked so hard for this competitive advantage. Political pressure? Pure profit?

It would seem that Tesla drivers themselves will be the losers in this deal as wait times increase.

Unless you think supercharging pricing will decrease for Tesla owners (don’t make me laugh!!), why did Elon sell us out?
 
Elon has said many times, the mission of Tesla is to move the world to renewable transportation. And that's not just Tesla.

He says that if we're all on a sinking boat (which we are), and he's the only one with buckets, it helps everyone to share his buckets.

Not political or profit motivated.

It's yet to be seen what the real impact will be on the SC network, so no need for the tinfoil hats at this time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Yelobird and KJD
SCs spend most of their time idle. Why not increase demand? It's pure profit for Tesla (since the stations are already built) which they can then plow back into more SC build-outs while more people get access to a great charging network. Everyone wins.

Besides, As @HankLloydRight Tesla built the SC network in order to increase adoption of EVs. Initially their own and now others. It's a huge market. Elon has said time and again that Tesla can't build enough cars to enable the transition we need. This is a huge step in making that happen.
 
and don't forget, that other manufacturers adopting NACS makes it the de factor US standard which will force the other charging competitors to add NACS to thier charging stations.
Discussed this before on other threads. But it seems pretty blame obvious.
  • Tesla's DCFC network is reliable. They have NOCs, time to respond to faults, and a huge percentage of the time, it's up.
  • Before all the agreements, the only US-wide standards was CCS1. And, despite some fooling around with magicdocks and the like, making Tesla switch over to CCS1 would have been very, very expensive for Tesla if CCS1 was the standard. In other words:
    • Big financial hit to switch to CCS1
    • NACS would have faded into obscurity over time.
  • There have been reports that the fundamental physical design of the CCS1 connector was not up to par. (People having to stand there and shove to keep their cars charging.)
  • From other car companies' perspective: The current CCS1 offerings by a plethora of charging companies are $BAD (pick your word). Further, Big Auto was not in charge of how the CCS1 providers ran their networks. What this meant: A competitive disadvantage in Tesla's favor, Not Good when Big Auto is either barely breaking even or actually losing money on cars sold. (Yes, they're getting better, but this is worse.)
  • Tesla shows up on Big Auto's doorstep. Proposition:
    • Switch to NACS. No cost.
    • The API for the NACS network is used by Big Auto on Big Auto's apps, not Tesla's. (This was, apparently, after some negotiation.)
  • Advantages to Tesla:
    • NACS does not fade into the woodwork. No reason to go bat-crazy on CCS1.
    • More users of the NACS. Tesla doesn't make a ton of money on their charging network; actually, quite the opposite. A bit of profit to handle growth and unexpected stuff, that's it. But, with more users, more money flowing in, funding more chargers and paying for maintenance on those chargers. The network doesn't go into irrelevancy.
    • More money from the IRA as various states require NACS going forward. Given Tesla's propensity not to make money on NACS, this isn't that big a deal, but it does allow them to drop costs, and that moves the whole, "World going electric" stuff forward.
  • Advantages for Big Auto:
    • Instant (well, 1st Q of 2024-style-instant) access to the most reliable charging network on the planet. Out from under the thumbs of the greedheads at the various non-Tesla charging companies who, Wall Street Style, have to show ever-increasing profits every quarter or Else.
    • Competitive disadvantage disappears. (And this is a big deal. Even now, there's once to thrice a week horror stories appearing on mainstream media about the Evils of Dead Chargers when trying to go a distance. And anybody who does some serious internet research finds out about this Really Fast.)
Effectively, without serious money changing hands here, it's a win-win for Tesla and Big Auto.

And another note: The vast majority of BEVs on the road are Teslas. Like, 85% to 90% or so. A 15% to 10% increase in the number of BEVs using Superchargers as the adapters from Big Auto come on line isn't going to really clog the Superchargers, especially as the number of Superchargers is roughly doubling every year. And that will accelerate as other users show up with their cars and dollars and fund Even More Superchargers.

Oh, yeah: A recent finding over in the investment forums was that Maine had published the results of the IRA bids on DCFCs. This should be no surprise.. but Tesla's bid was 25% or 30% or so of competing vendors, for 'way more charging ports than what the other vendors were offering. So, from the various States' point of view, going with Tesla means a heck of a lot more charging stations, and the greedheads who were thinking, "Government Spending Trough!" are in trouble.

About the only question I still have open in my mind has to do with Operations. My understanding is that when there's a slew of Teslas going on long trips with Supercharger stops, the NoA software gets input from the Tesla Mothership as to which Supercharger to go to. Sometimes it's the One and Only spot on the trip that physically fits; but, often, the Mothership detects when a bunch of users are showing up in a particular area, and will shuffle those users to less-used SC's. (My spouse happens to be an Industrial Engineer. Operations Research, which is one of the subspecialties in that field, handles problems like this for, say, Airlines, Trucking Companies, and Distribution Networks.) So, when other cars join the Tesla NACS fun, will their travel data get integrated into the Big Software Package, so we don't end up with overcrowded Superchargers? Stay tuned.
 
I would love to know the real story behind Elon letting Ford in on the supercharger game after they worked so hard for this competitive advantage. Political pressure? Pure profit?

It would seem that Tesla drivers themselves will be the losers in this deal as wait times increase.

Unless you think supercharging pricing will decrease for Tesla owners (don’t make me laugh!!), why did Elon sell us out?
An exclusive charging system that no other manufacturers will use risks extinction.

To reduce that risk, sharing that system so everyone can use will put the CCS1 system at risk of extinction instead.

Tesla's 400V charging system at 250 kW is behind and risks being a dinosaur because manufacturers are now developing 800V charging at 350 kW.

It's better to survive and not to be extinct and still alive to gripe on this thread that you do not want to share.

As others said, there are still lots of vacancies at non-peak times which is a waste of money. Adding non-Tesla cars is a very smart move.

I still remember that there was only 1 stall of Tesla Supercharger at Harris Ranch between Los Angeles and San Francisco. People were complaining that with more sales and more Tesla cars needing charging, there will be more wait time.

Not so! With more cars needing charging, the wait time went down as so many Superchargers have been built.

Now Harris Ranch has 18+80 = 98 stalls.

There are so many additional ones between Los Angeles and San Francisco: Kettlleman 40+55=94 stalls.

Firebaugh with 56 stalls...
 
About the only question I still have open in my mind has to do with Operations.... So, when other cars join the Tesla NACS fun, will their travel data get integrated into the Big Software Package, so we don't end up with overcrowded Superchargers? Stay tuned.
Good question...and I hope so. I at least assume that a Tesla requirement for OEMs using the API (to get supercharger info, payment, etc) would be that the oem 'travel data' would need to be provided to Tesla as a condition. This doesn't stop any user (including a Telsa owner) from just "showing up" at a supercharger unannounced, but I assume the Tesla Mothership will be aware of all OEM vehicles currently "navigating" and determining optimal supercharging locations.
 
Good question...and I hope so. I at least assume that a Tesla requirement for OEMs using the API (to get supercharger info, payment, etc) would be that the oem 'travel data' would need to be provided to Tesla as a condition. This doesn't stop any user (including a Telsa owner) from just "showing up" at a supercharger unannounced, but I assume the Tesla Mothership will be aware of all OEM vehicles currently "navigating" and determining optimal supercharging locations.
Agreed. I don't know any of the details on how Tesla does their O.R. stuff, other than there was a report that they did do that. But it could be more than people going a hundred miles or greater.

For example, especially in winter, when one is going to a Supercharger the Tesla screen display urges the driver/user to put the SC destination into the NAV. When one does that, up pops another info message saying, "Preconditioning for supercharging". That's been around for ages and people understand the message to mean that the car is optimizing the battery temperature so it can charge faster.

But doing that thing (navigating to an SC) could also inform the Mothership of incoming autos in need of charging, letting the O.R. package do its optimization thing.

Heh. Nothing like this is around for gasoline powered cars, at all. But I guess the difference is that people doing the fill-it-to-80% dance will spend fifteen to 30 minutes charging and that's longer than one would spend at a gas station spigot.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pilotSteve
Heh. Nothing like this is around for gasoline powered cars, at all. But I guess the difference is that people doing the fill-it-to-80% dance will spend fifteen to 30 minutes charging and that's longer than one would spend at a gas station spigot.
Yeah, it will probably take 1/2 a generation before DC Fast Charging becomes as ubiquitous as a gas fill up: Basically, be able to spend 5-10 minutes to give your vehicle 300 ish miles of range....with enough capacity so that you're never worried about waiting more than 5 minutes for an available charger within a 10 minute drive.

By the time I'm on my death bed, I'll be telling my great grand-kids "not only did we have to drive ourselves, but unless you had a Tesla, charging your car on the road was hit and miss. Even with a Tesla, 15-20 minutes a best case scenario for about 200 miles of charge...."