Red Model 3 Performance for sale (maybe)

[focher]

Hi,

I have a Model 3 Performance that I took delivery on September 9th. On September 13th, it was rear ended at about 15 MPH by a truck. I am currently negotiating with their insurance company to purchase the car from me so I can order a new one. In my view, the diminished value of the car and the permanent stain of an accident on its record is not something I'm willing to just accept. So I'm trying to find out what the market value of a Model 3 Performance is that has been in an accident.

Here's the configuration:

Red Multi-Coat Paint
Premium Interior (White)
Performance Package
Enhanced AutoPilot

The car retailed for $78,000 plus taxes. It's located in the San Francisco Bay Area (East Bay).

 

[ewoodrick]

This is hilarious.

When the insurance company reads your claims, they are going to chuckle. You are not insured for "the permanent stain of an accident on its record". If they do total it, you may not even be owed the total cost of the car. That's why some of the agencies advertise their policy which does provide equivalent replacement vehicle. But they will also probably calculate the tax credit into the numbers, since they can't get it.

I'd just be trying to negotiate an equivalent rental for the time that you are out of the car, as well a requiring a Tesla body shop to do the work, if I were you.

Plus, if they total or purchase the car, you don't own it to sell it.

If you want to determine the value of a wrecked car, then someone needs to know just how wrecked it is. Because the value of a wrecked car is essentially current value - cost to repair. I'd guess that, with minimal damage, it is probably about $65,000

My wife had the same thing with her Outback, they paid to repair it, even with repair costs being around 75% of purchase price. They also paid for medical expenses. That made her change the name of the car from "roo" as in kangaroo to "roohon" (That's a roo with a Honda up it's ass!)

 

[HankLloydRight]

But they will also probably calculate the tax credit into the numbers, since they can't get it.

I seriously doubt that. There's no way the insurance company would know if some buyer claimed the credit at all, a partial credit or the full tax credit. That number is completely unrelated to the value of the car and the insurance coverage. The owner/OP BOUGHT the car for the full price. And that's what it should be insured for and would be their total loss liability is (in case of a total loss, less depreciation).

 

[P85_DA]

So I'm trying to find out what the market value of a Model 3 Performance is that has been in an accident.

Get the car repaired than get quote from CarMax or Vroom and sell to them ... usually a car fax record lags several months otherwise with accident record expect a 25% hit

 

[kbecks13]

According to Elon your car should be repaired into better shape than before the accident happened, not sure why you're worried at all.

/s

 

[focher]

This is hilarious.

When the insurance company reads your claims, they are going to chuckle. You are not insured for "the permanent stain of an accident on its record". If they do total it, you may not even be owed the total cost of the car. That's why some of the agencies advertise their policy which does provide equivalent replacement vehicle. But they will also probably calculate the tax credit into the numbers, since they can't get it.

I'd just be trying to negotiate an equivalent rental for the time that you are out of the car, as well a requiring a Tesla body shop to do the work, if I were you.

Plus, if they total or purchase the car, you don't own it to sell it.

If you want to determine the value of a wrecked car, then someone needs to know just how wrecked it is. Because the value of a wrecked car is essentially current value - cost to repair. I'd guess that, with minimal damage, it is probably about $65,000

My wife had the same thing with her Outback, they paid to repair it, even with repair costs being around 75% of purchase price. They also paid for medical expenses. That made her change the name of the car from "roo" as in kangaroo to "roohon" (That's a roo with a Honda up it's ass!)

A complete lack of reading comprehension.

1. It’s THEIR insurance company, not mine. I have lots of negotiating room against a negligent driver”s insurance company.

2. There absolutely are legal rules around diminished value. They can either reimburse me for it in cash or remove it from the discussion by purchasing the car from me.

3. Where did I claim that if they purchase the car from me that I then sell it again? It’s about establishing the market value of the car one way or another.

Good points from the others, though.

And for the record, IAAL.

 

[focher]

Just wanted to record it here in case others miss it, but there was a previous excellent post of a Model S owner going through the same experience and how they ultimately settled.

2016 Model S 90D - Property Damage Claim Post Mortem

 

[Jordaholic]

Of course you are, who isn't one in California?

 

[focher]

Of course you are, who isn't one in California?

Plenty. I’m not practicing, nor are my 40 million fellow state citizens.

Don’t want to pay me for my actual losses? Then don’t smash into me.

 

[eye.surgeon]

2. There absolutely are legal rules around diminished value. They can either reimburse me for it in cash or remove it from the discussion by purchasing the car from me.

.

You forgot the third option, which is them telling you to go pound sand, which is what they are going to do. If you want to claim diminished value you will have to sue them, and given you apparently want a new car out of this, that rules out small claims, so you will have to hire a lawyer.

Don't get me wrong, I am sympathetic. I got rear ended 2 wks ago.

 

[focher]

You forgot the third option, which is them telling you to go pound sand, which is what they are going to do. If you want to claim diminished value you will have to sue them, and given you apparently want a new car out of this, that rules out small claims, so you will have to hire a lawyer.

Don't get me wrong, I am sympathetic. I got rear ended 2 wks ago.

Your “option 3” is very dangerous for them. Here’s how that one goes:

1. They agree to pay for repair. Otherwise, they’re acting in bad faith. See below for why that’s bad. I get the car back “repaired” and sell it. I’ve now set the diminished value of the car.
2. I submit an expanded claim that includes property damage, diminished value, and loss of use. We’re now over $30k in total losses to me.
3. They still refuse to pay. I explain to them that they are refusing a reasonable settlement within their policy limits. If they don’t accept then I will go to their client and request them to sign over their legal rights against their insurance company. I then sue their client for the $30k (who is indemnified by their insurance company), but I will also sue the insurance company - on behalf of their client - for refusing to pay the liability in bad faith, which exposed the client to the initial $30k claim. Now I have access to a punitive damages claim.
4. I retain a lawyer who will pursue the case on a contingency, because the insurer has now established an expensive bad faith claim.

Small claims is a relatively far away fall-back option that still gets me up to $25k of the DV claim. Remember, I’ve had the car repaired and sold it. So unless the DV is more than $25k, I’m made whole.

There’s a reason I don’t go to eye surgeons for legal advice nor do I go to lawyers for eye surgery.

 

[Lasttoy]

For all the reasons above on actual money received. I bought a rider on USAA policy that gives me a 20% addon to my money paid to me for total. We all know we will be low balled by all these firms. To replace will cost you. It was piece of mind if mine is totalled. Also, whats the chance of you finding an exact replacement? Zero.

 

[tomas]

Your “option 3” is very dangerous for them. Here’s how that one goes:

1. They agree to pay for repair. Otherwise, they’re acting in bad faith. See below for why that’s bad. I get the car back “repaired” and sell it. I’ve now set the diminished value of the car.
2. I submit an expanded claim that includes property damage, diminished value, and loss of use. We’re now over $30k in total losses to me.
3. They still refuse to pay. I explain to them that they are refusing a reasonable settlement within their policy limits. If they don’t accept then I will go to their client and request them to sign over their legal rights against their insurance company. I then sue their client for the $30k (who is indemnified by their insurance company), but I will also sue the insurance company - on behalf of their client - for refusing to pay the liability in bad faith, which exposed the client to the initial $30k claim. Now I have access to a punitive damages claim.
4. I retain a lawyer who will pursue the case on a contingency, because the insurer has now established an expensive bad faith claim.

Small claims is a relatively far away fall-back option that still gets me up to $25k of the DV claim. Remember, I’ve had the car repaired and sold it. So unless the DV is more than $25k, I’m made whole.

There’s a reason I don’t go to eye surgeons for legal advice nor do I go to lawyers for eye surgery.

FWIW I think you have a pretty good handle on the outcomes and how to proceed, so I’m left wondering why you started a thread looking for valuation input on car with undefined damage, knowing there could be no useful response. Just letting off steam??

 

[HankLloydRight]

I will go to their client and request them to sign over their legal rights against their insurance company. I then sue their client for the $30k (who is indemnified by their insurance company), but I will also sue the insurance company - on behalf of their client - for refusing to pay the liability in bad faith, which exposed the client to the initial $30k claim. Now I have access to a punitive damages claim.

I don't get this part. Why would their client sign over their legal rights against their insurance company, so you can turn around and sue them and their insurance company? Why is that in their best interests? And what makes you so sure they'll just go along with your plan?

 

[P85_DA]

OP honestly after having done this several times with my own high value cars in CA you will probably get

-car repaired
-get some level of LOU/DV

All the rest is somewhat a stretch ..insurance companies will just out lawyer you unless you are willing to spend a siginfiifcant amount time and lawyer fees ..I’m sorry but a Tesla P3 is not a exotic car good luck though

 

[focher]

I don't get this part. Why would their client sign over their legal rights against their insurance company, so you can turn around and sue them and their insurance company? Why is that in their best interests? And what makes you so sure they'll just go along with your plan?

Because they don't want to pay themselves, they want their insurance company to pay. So by essentially indemnifying them for the claim (you legally sue them as the liable party) you now have the contractual bad faith claim. As part of them agreeing to this, you agree that you won't actually hold them liable for the amount.

 

[P85_DA]

Because they don't want to pay themselves, they want their insurance company to pay. So by essentially indemnifying them for the claim (you legally sue them as the liable party) you now have the contractual bad faith claim. As part of them agreeing to this, you agree that you won't actually hold them liable for the amount.

Don’t get this the other party won’t pay that’s why they have insurance ...personally I think this is a stretch please report back if you are successful ..I have never heard of any liable party signing off in a situation like this ..no one died or was significantly injured from what it sounds like ..you just have property damage which is dealt with 1000s of times a day by insurance companies I don’t see any uniqueness of this situation unless I’m missing something ...

 

[HankLloydRight]

As part of them agreeing to this, you agree that you won't actually hold them liable for the amount.

Like as in "wink-wink, I won't actually hold you liable, but please sign this anyway"?

Good luck with that. I'd never sign any document with a "oh, but I won't really do it" promise.

You really are a lawyer.

 

[P85_DA]

Like as in "wink-wink, I won't actually hold you liable, but please sign this anyway"?

Good luck with that. I'd never sign any document with a "oh, but I won't really do it" promise.

You really are a lawyer.

 

[focher]

FWIW I think you have a pretty good handle on the outcomes and how to proceed, so I’m left wondering why you started a thread looking for valuation input on car with undefined damage, knowing there could be no useful response. Just letting off steam??

It was specifically to estimate the Diminished Value. An earlier recommendation to simply take the repaired car to CarMax and get an offer was the best suggestion. In addition, this car might be for sale quite soon so it's a real "for sale" post. The rest of it has become a rabbit hole.