smjbh5
Member
I have EAP, and don't mind paying the $2k for full FSD, but I would be pissed off (rightly so), if they gave the FSD upgrade away for free to the folks the bought in 2019.
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Reduced price Autopilot & FSD for existing owners announced March 1st
- Thread starter vjason
- Start date
roblab
Active Member
I got FSD for free. Now, knowing you can't check what I bought, or got, or paid for or not, I will admit to just wanting to make you all upset (as being "pissed off" really means nothing) and I really did not, but wasn't it fun being upset for a second? Did it get anyone anywhere?
I own two great cars. If anyone buys either model cheaper, I just say, "Good on ya, brother!" Why should I care? If you pay X and were happy to do so, you should not care what I pay.
I would bet that those Audis I passed today felt ticked off that their cars were inferior. Hahahaha!
I own two great cars. If anyone buys either model cheaper, I just say, "Good on ya, brother!" Why should I care? If you pay X and were happy to do so, you should not care what I pay.
I would bet that those Audis I passed today felt ticked off that their cars were inferior. Hahahaha!
C141medic
Active Member
Absolutely. I don’t believe that people voicing their concerns are necessarily “whining.” I purchased EAP (5K) +FSD (3K) in August 2018 for 8K. I was fully aware that my FSD purchase at that point would most likely not be fully functional for a while and was happy to support Tesla in the interim. This makes me question my early support for FSD.
gilscales
Banned
What do you mean You People?
Just kidding, I've always wanted to say that but never could (cause I'm white) hahaha.
I don't have super-strong feelings on this debate, but I can explain why people are upset: something has changed...the price of FSD dropped by $1,000.
People feel like they paid for a product that hasn't been delivered, ONLY because it would cost more later, and now it is being offered for sale for even less money.
Would anyone have pre-purchased FSD if the company had simply said you can buy it now or later for the same cost?
No. They wouldn't have. They would have waited until it was available, and paid whatever the price was at the time.
Instead, Tesla sold the feature by claiming it would cost more to do so after purchase. Now it has decreased the cost before meaningfully delivering the software and without offering refunds. Can you see the conflict there?
So, let me pose the scenario a different way. If I pre-ordered an iPhone for $1,000 and then they dropped the price prior to selling it for $666 instead...everyone with a pre-order would probably cancel their order and pay the lower price. Right?
Maybe some folks might want to pay the premium to ensure they are first in line? Sure, I could buy that, but that isn't doesn't apply here because we're talking about software. There are no inventory challenges.
Now, picture in that same scenario, Apple was pushing you to pre-order at $1,000 by saying the price would be $1,250 if you didn't pre-order. But then, when they actually offered the phone for sale, they sold it for $666, not the $1,250 they told you they were going to sell it for...so, you paid $1,000 for a phone that everyone else is paying $666 for and worse, you pre-paid for it, in essence loaning them money for months or years even though you got the phone at the same time as those people paying $666. And you did that only because the Apple had told you they were going to sell it for $1,250...
That isn't going to make very many pre-order people happy.
To those saying "you should have known better -- prices drop", that seems like a hard case to make when the company is telling you it will cost more to buy it later -- they are the only seller.
To the "don't buy vaporware" retorts, again, if Tesla hadn't expressly told people it would cost more to buy it later then people wouldn't have bought vaporware. It's probably pretty sound advice not to buy vaporware but that doesn't change the fact Tesla created this conflict through their own ill-advised decisions...they could have either prevented it entirely by not encouraging the sale of vaporware (by not making it more expensive to buy after the fact) OR by addressing the overpayments for those who did pre-purchase it.
Does that help you understand why some people may be upset/complaining?
I don't think the EAD purchases have much of a 'case' -- they've been benefiting from the feature since the day they took delivery. If I were Tesla, I'd probably consider some way to compensate recent purchasers...like just throw in FSD for the people that bought in the last month or something of that nature, maybe some free supercharging for people who bought in the last 3 months or something...like price protection from major retailers...just something to ease the pain a little. But hey, prices drop and sometimes they drop right after you buy so even that would just be for goodwill purposes. If you buy a stock and it drops 10% the next day, nobody is giving you money back.
*Caveat: The flip side to these arguments is whether there are any meaningful FSD features already launched. I feel like I remember reading that there have already been features launched that are only available as part of FSD -- following highway interchanges maybe? I don't know. And maybe I'm wrong. But if they have launched features that are only available as part of FSD, then that would be Tesla's counter argument because in that case, they delivered something and people purportedly benefitted from it. I almost hope that is the case because this pricing fiasco has class action lawsuit written all over it and that's the last thing Tesla needs to waste money and goodwill on but I fear some short-seller is going to fund such a lawsuit for this goof.
@dotbombjoe
Very nice post. Really well laid out. The only real rebuttal I have for you is, you mentioned:
But many of the loudest complaints are coming from that demographic. Also, everyone who has FSD by default has EAP so falls under your quote above.
To me, the ones who have the most to complain about are:
1. The people who just took delivery in the last 1 week or so (just outside of the new return policy), and bought EAP or EAP and FSD.
2. The people who bought FSD a long time ago, who in effect "have not taken delivery of" that product.
EAP purchasers (like me) who didnt pre pay FSD, as you correctly pointed out, have "already benefitted from the feature". Would I rather get it for less? Yes I would. Am I "entitled" to it for less? No.
People who bought FSD havent actually taken delivery of it, so I understand that frustration. There hasnt been a feature yet that I am aware of that is FSD but NOT eap, yet everyone who bought FSD has EAP. So, FSD purchasers have not yet "taken delivery" of anything. THEY should be a bit miffed. I dont think early access is a good recompense for those people, however its pretty obvious that tesla can likely not afford to refund them so....
Most that are loudest in these threads are EAP purchasers.
Anyway, really well laid out nice post.
Very nice post. Really well laid out. The only real rebuttal I have for you is, you mentioned:
But many of the loudest complaints are coming from that demographic. Also, everyone who has FSD by default has EAP so falls under your quote above.
To me, the ones who have the most to complain about are:
1. The people who just took delivery in the last 1 week or so (just outside of the new return policy), and bought EAP or EAP and FSD.
2. The people who bought FSD a long time ago, who in effect "have not taken delivery of" that product.
EAP purchasers (like me) who didnt pre pay FSD, as you correctly pointed out, have "already benefitted from the feature". Would I rather get it for less? Yes I would. Am I "entitled" to it for less? No.
People who bought FSD havent actually taken delivery of it, so I understand that frustration. There hasnt been a feature yet that I am aware of that is FSD but NOT eap, yet everyone who bought FSD has EAP. So, FSD purchasers have not yet "taken delivery" of anything. THEY should be a bit miffed. I dont think early access is a good recompense for those people, however its pretty obvious that tesla can likely not afford to refund them so....
Most that are loudest in these threads are EAP purchasers.
Anyway, really well laid out nice post.
THE ONLY REASON WE BOUGHT FSD WAS TESLA SAYING THAT WE WILL PAY MORE OTHERWISE! THAT IS NOT TRUE!!!
Perry
Active Member
Not according to this:
Upgrading to Autopilot and Full Self-Driving Capability
2K + 3K for a total of 5K not 7K
I hope people who "wanted to support Tesla" by paying ahead for non-existent products have learnt a lesson and won't repeat their mistake again anytime soon.
Never really understood this, but then again ... I'm not the one complaining about being ripped off
Never really understood this, but then again ... I'm not the one complaining about being ripped off
Freshmen? It has nothing to do with being nimble it's a lack of experience in pricing.Their model is set for fixed pricing so it has no bearing on what other dealers do sale to sale unless they are going to allow haggling or remove destination charges for factory pick up since they are so "dynamic".
Only because they said otherwise it will cost $5,000!
Well, that was misleading! Tesla has to refund it! Prices actually DROPPED before product was available to deliver!
"They believed in the mission"
"Wanted to support Tesla"
It wasn't enough that they were already supporting the mission/Tesla by buying the car, but no sirree bob, they had to go the extra mile to establish their bona fides
Right but you could support them when it was actually available for use. What was the rush?"They believed in the mission"
"Wanted to support Tesla"
It wasn't enough that they were already supporting the mission/Tesla by buying the car, but no sirree bob, they had to go the extra mile to establish their bona fides
And those are who Tesla now screwing up!"They believed in the mission"
"Wanted to support Tesla"
It wasn't enough that they were already supporting the mission/Tesla by buying the car, but no sirree bob, they had to go the extra mile to establish their bona fides
Because the price was supposed to be higher later, and interest rates were preposterously low. I also suspected (correctly) that a computer upgrade would be needed, and figured (incorrectly) that they'd jack the price. I guess they still could if it ever becomes a real feature,
C141medic
Active Member
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
Tesla is not screwing anyone. The early adopters still have exactly what they purchased at the price they agreed to pay!
Why do some people feel so entitled? Tesla has never had a "price protection guarantee".
THE ONLY REASON WE BOUGHT FSD WAS TESLA SAYING THAT WE WILL PAY MORE OTHERWISE! THAT IS NOT TRUE!!!
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
Tesla's pricing is variable from time to time. But it is fixed from person to person. They offer you the same price whether your name is "Robert" or "Maria". But obviously they are not locked into one price forever. I call people who already purchased and want the same deal as the new pricing "freshman" because they must be new to how things work in the real world.
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