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Reserved mine, but...

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by Stealther, Apr 6, 2016.

  1. Stealther

    Stealther New Member

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    Soon to be first time Tesla owner. I'm curious to see how the Supercharger capacity will work itself out. I know they plan on doubling them but will that be enough? Did the battery swap idea die on the vine? I can't help thinking the Tesla Management team looked like this over the weekend.

     
    • Funny x 1
  2. EVie'sDad

    EVie'sDad Member

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  3. AZ Desert Driver

    AZ Desert Driver Genesis - The Beginning - MS60D in its nest

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    I watched a youtube video where TWO tesla cars were refueled faster than a gas pump could fill a sedan, using a battery swap technique. What happened to this concept? Seems like it would be easier to roll out superchargers to more locations than battery swap locations. But lets say I bought a "low KWH" car and then wanted to upgrade later. Is battery swap even an option?
     
  4. vjason

    vjason Member

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    Not sure how popular it would be given cost of the swap during the pilot ($80), and the fact that you have to swap back your battery at some point and schedule the swap so days in advance. This may be why the program hasn't expanded.

    Tesla Battery Swap Invites Go Out, $80 Per Swap - Gas 2

    Is $80 really worth it to save time? Especially yo a mass market vehicle like a 3 whose owners are more likely to be price conscious? I'm not so sure.

    That being said I wouldn't be suprised to see it eventually when the market hits some sort of saturation point.
     
  5. Cattledog

    Cattledog Active Member

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    Yes, funny video, if you look at the numbers, they actually fade out as it's spinning through the 300,000s...sound familiar. They said double the number of superchargers by the end of this year, there's still 2017 and 2018 to expand as well as car numbers grow. I keep hoping they are looking for some sort of partner, perhaps an transport/energy one but maybe more importantly a locational one, whether it's retail, restaurant, or even traditional service station. But they seem to be happy to go it alone if no one steps up.

    I think battery swap has cost and logistic challenges.

    I also expect supercharging will increase in speed over the next decade, whether it be increased battery capacity, cable capacity, or both. I think it would be great if it could be cut in half in 5 years, 20 minutes for an 80% charge. JB Straubel has alluded to as much.
     
  6. AZ Desert Driver

    AZ Desert Driver Genesis - The Beginning - MS60D in its nest

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    I did not know that the swap was a regulatory response. Seems logical in the un-logical regulation world.

    But let me ask a hypothetical (as all M3 questions are)...Could you swap a 60 kw battery for an 80 kw battery as an upgrade after you have been driving for awhile and need more capacity? [will the bolts be there for a 60 kw to 60 kw swap?, will there be room for a 60 kw to 80 kw swap?]
     
  7. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Active Member

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    I'm pretty sure he said that they would double the Superchargers by the end of 2017, not the end of this year.
     
  8. tga

    tga Active Member

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    Physically, the S's 60 and 85 kWh packs are identical. The car would need a software update/reconfig to recognize the different pack size.

    In the past, Tesla has upgraded S's from 60 to 85 kWh, but they stopped doing it a while ago.
     
  9. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Active Member

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    Tesla plans on doubling them before the Model 3 is released. They aren't just going to stop building them after the release date. It will be some time before capacity is reached if they double them, though a couple sites in CA might get crowded on holidays (as they do now).

    Frankly, if you reserved anytime this week, you probably won't see it for 3-4 years anyway...at which point they may have quadrupled the amount of SC stations.
     
  10. S'toon

    S'toon Knows where his towel is

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    There is one battery swap station. The plan went nowhere because almost nobody uses it. I read posts about once a year a post where someone used it.
     
  11. Seir

    Seir Member

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    My understanding is the superchargers are meant for longer distance travel and not for everyday charging. I know with my Leaf I pretty much have to charge for an hour or so over lunch each day (80 mile commute) but with the 200+ mile range of the M3, I would charge at home every other day or so.

    Now, if we decide to pile the wife and kids into the M3 and go visit my folks I would hit the superchargers along the way...
     
  12. deonb

    deonb Active Member

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    Correct, "by the end of next year":

    13:45 minutes into it:

     
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  13. tracksyde

    tracksyde Member

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    From what I recall, the battery swap idea died due to two main reasons. One, Tesla had said that they had invited people who drive that route (between So Cal and Nor Cal) to use the swap station on an appointment basis. Tesla said not many people took them up on that offer.

    The second reason was that CARB (I believe) was granting more clean air credits for vehicles that were able to be "refueled in 5 minutes or less". From what I read, it seemed like a pretty clear indication of CARB trying to give favor to hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. When Tesla came up with the battery swap idea and showed on stage it could be done in about 2 minutes, CARB quickly changed the wording so that swapping batteries would not satisfy the quick refueling requirement. There's an article about it somewhere, but thats basically what I read.

    So no one wanted to use them + no extra credit given for battery swap = no build out

    I always thought that the battery swap idea would work well in a more urban environment. Maybe someone who lives in a high-rise without dedicated charging, swapping a battery oncea week or once every other week would make sense.

    Here's the article I read: CARB ZEV Program Changes; Tesla Takes Largest Hit, Fuel Cell Tech Wins

    here's the meat:

     
    • Informative x 1
  14. brucet999

    brucet999 Active Member

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    Several S60 owners asked this question after the battery swap station came online and again after the new battery chemistry was announced that made 90kWh possible. Elon's answer was that it is technically possible but that the cost of swapping batteries would be so high that it would not be cost effective unless the new battery were very much larger than the old one.
     

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