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Review of FSD after software update June '20

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HenryFarkas

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Jun 30, 2020
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Maryland, US
Review of Full Self Driving Feature of my New Tesla Model 3


by Henry Farkas


I actually didn't need to buy a car during the COVID-19 pandemic. My wife and I are in our 70s. Where could we go? But Elon Musk took a couple of thousand dollars off the price of the M3. I figured he'd raise the price once there was a cure or a vaccine. I had already test driven all the fully electric cars before the pandemic started, and Tesla's Full Self Driving (FSD) was better than the lane keeping of the other electric cars. And Tesla gives free software updates. None of the other car companies do that.


I've had the Tesla for around three weeks now. During this time, I've received two software updates. My previous car, a Chevy Volt that my wife had I leased and then bought at the end of the lease, got one software update at the beginning of the lease when I complained to the dealer that cruise control often stopped working apropos of nothing while I was driving on the Interstate highway in good weather. I had to take the car into the service center for the update, and I had to wait around an hour or so. The update didn't solve the problem, but it reduced the frequency of the issue.


Anyway, back to the Tesla. I paid the extra seven thousand dollars for the FSD feature because my wife doesn't think I'm a good driver. So I figured I'd go with the artificial intelligence of the Tesla that's had several billion miles of driving experience.


Sadly, artificial intelligence doesn't benefit from driving experience quite as well as biological intelligence, at least human biological intelligence.


My criterion for excellent driving is driving that doesn't prompt my wife to comment negatively about a particular driving event during a car trip. I, personally, haven't achieved that rarified level of driving excellence except on very short trips to the grocery store or to nearby restaurants to pick up takeout food. In my defense, her driving would, at times, elicit comments from me if it weren't for the fact that such comments from me might have a negative effect on my ability to get lucky.


But I have to say that so far, both of us are way better drivers than the Tesla is.


I hope the Tesla aficionados can restrain themselves from flaming me over the previous statement. I want the Tesla to be as good a driver as a person who makes a living as a chauffeur for rich people, who never gets sleepy, and whose attention never wanders.


Tesla's AI just isn't there yet. My Tesla sees a red light or a stop sign ahead, it flashes a sign on the screen saying that it plans to stop in 500 feet, and it abruptly accelerates. It does stop in time, but why does it need to accelerate noticeably before it starts to slow down? This happens often. When there's time, an excellent chauffeur accelerates and decelerates so gently that passengers don't even notice that the speed of the vehicle is changing.

.

Possibly, not all people want such a sedate driving experience. If that's all it is, then the Tesla engineers can just put in a driving mode. They could call it Sedate Mode, or Chauffeur Mode, or just Make Your Spouse Happy Mode.


There's more issues with FSD besides abrupt changes in speed. When the Tesla is in the right lane on a limited access highway and it's passing an exit, the painted lines start to widen. The right thing to do if you don't plan to take the exit is to keep going straight. That's not what the Tesla does. Instead, it starts to veer right in order to stay centered between the lines. It does this with an abrupt noticeable movement. Then, when the line appears between the exit and the travel lane, the Tesla abruptly switches back to the center of the travel lane. The car should see far enough ahead to know that the lines are widening because there's an exit. It should know that unless there's a turn signal, the exit is not intended to be taken, and it shouldn't veer right to stay centered between the widening lines. Those movements don't merely upset the non-driving people in the car. They make the driver of the following car think, briefly, that the Tesla is about to exit without signaling. If the following driver speeds up figuring that the Tesla is about to exit, there could be an accident when the Tesla abruptly swerves back into the travel lane.


Finally, there's the really big issue that sometimes, the Tesla doesn't see an object stopped in the road. We know what the car sees and what it doesn't see. They show up on the left side of the center screen as we're driving along. I've had the car less than three weeks, and this has happened to me twice that I've noticed.


In summary, I like the FSD feature, but it's still not a good enough driver to make my wife happy, and it's not safe for the human drivers to take their attention off the road for even a few seconds. Judging by the way my FSD feature works, it's going to be a long time before I can send my Tesla out to work as a taxi when I won't be needing to drive it myself.
 
You're right, there is definite room for improvement. I still HATE the "swerve around the lane like a drunk driver" that happens when you pass large vehicles. Really wish I could shut that off.

But in the three years I've been using autopilot, it has improved significantly. The number of interventions or just plain turning it off because it loses it's mind has gone way down. And if Tesla is now improving the NN at the rate they claim to be, we're going to see some significant improvements "coming soon" :)
 
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Review of Full Self Driving Feature of my New Tesla Model 3


by Henry Farkas


I actually didn't need to buy a car during the COVID-19 pandemic. My wife and I are in our 70s. Where could we go? But Elon Musk took a couple of thousand dollars off the price of the M3. I figured he'd raise the price once there was a cure or a vaccine. I had already test driven all the fully electric cars before the pandemic started, and Tesla's Full Self Driving (FSD) was better than the lane keeping of the other electric cars. And Tesla gives free software updates. None of the other car companies do that.


I've had the Tesla for around three weeks now. During this time, I've received two software updates. My previous car, a Chevy Volt that my wife had I leased and then bought at the end of the lease, got one software update at the beginning of the lease when I complained to the dealer that cruise control often stopped working apropos of nothing while I was driving on the Interstate highway in good weather. I had to take the car into the service center for the update, and I had to wait around an hour or so. The update didn't solve the problem, but it reduced the frequency of the issue.


Anyway, back to the Tesla. I paid the extra seven thousand dollars for the FSD feature because my wife doesn't think I'm a good driver. So I figured I'd go with the artificial intelligence of the Tesla that's had several billion miles of driving experience.


Sadly, artificial intelligence doesn't benefit from driving experience quite as well as biological intelligence, at least human biological intelligence.


My criterion for excellent driving is driving that doesn't prompt my wife to comment negatively about a particular driving event during a car trip. I, personally, haven't achieved that rarified level of driving excellence except on very short trips to the grocery store or to nearby restaurants to pick up takeout food. In my defense, her driving would, at times, elicit comments from me if it weren't for the fact that such comments from me might have a negative effect on my ability to get lucky.


But I have to say that so far, both of us are way better drivers than the Tesla is.


I hope the Tesla aficionados can restrain themselves from flaming me over the previous statement. I want the Tesla to be as good a driver as a person who makes a living as a chauffeur for rich people, who never gets sleepy, and whose attention never wanders.


Tesla's AI just isn't there yet. My Tesla sees a red light or a stop sign ahead, it flashes a sign on the screen saying that it plans to stop in 500 feet, and it abruptly accelerates. It does stop in time, but why does it need to accelerate noticeably before it starts to slow down? This happens often. When there's time, an excellent chauffeur accelerates and decelerates so gently that passengers don't even notice that the speed of the vehicle is changing.

.

Possibly, not all people want such a sedate driving experience. If that's all it is, then the Tesla engineers can just put in a driving mode. They could call it Sedate Mode, or Chauffeur Mode, or just Make Your Spouse Happy Mode.


There's more issues with FSD besides abrupt changes in speed. When the Tesla is in the right lane on a limited access highway and it's passing an exit, the painted lines start to widen. The right thing to do if you don't plan to take the exit is to keep going straight. That's not what the Tesla does. Instead, it starts to veer right in order to stay centered between the lines. It does this with an abrupt noticeable movement. Then, when the line appears between the exit and the travel lane, the Tesla abruptly switches back to the center of the travel lane. The car should see far enough ahead to know that the lines are widening because there's an exit. It should know that unless there's a turn signal, the exit is not intended to be taken, and it shouldn't veer right to stay centered between the widening lines. Those movements don't merely upset the non-driving people in the car. They make the driver of the following car think, briefly, that the Tesla is about to exit without signaling. If the following driver speeds up figuring that the Tesla is about to exit, there could be an accident when the Tesla abruptly swerves back into the travel lane.


Finally, there's the really big issue that sometimes, the Tesla doesn't see an object stopped in the road. We know what the car sees and what it doesn't see. They show up on the left side of the center screen as we're driving along. I've had the car less than three weeks, and this has happened to me twice that I've noticed.


In summary, I like the FSD feature, but it's still not a good enough driver to make my wife happy, and it's not safe for the human drivers to take their attention off the road for even a few seconds. Judging by the way my FSD feature works, it's going to be a long time before I can send my Tesla out to work as a taxi when I won't be needing to drive it myself.
Didn’t read every word of this lengthy post but I think I got the tone. No, your car (hopefully) isn’t a better driver than you are — yet. But I will bet it has much sharper reflexes and better vision than you do. So trust it like a 15 year old with a learner’s permit and you will find you are a much better driver than you were before. Also, hold off on using the latest unproven autopilot features like stoplight recognition until you are much more comfortable with the car. (I have had my two Teslas for 6 years combined and still often turn off half-baked features like the latest stoplight crap.)
 
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OP, a date doesnt mean much as far as Tesla software updates go, because they roll them out in waves. I didnt read your whole post, but even the thread title should be "A review of FSD on software version XXXXXX, because the date of 'june 20th" tells us less than nothing about what version you actually have.
 
Despite being a "Tesla aficionado" I dislike it when people put too much faith in autopilot. They are a danger to those around them and then could get into an accident that would make Tesla have to make changes that are annoying to those of us who are paying attention.
 
Review of Full Self Driving Feature of my New Tesla Model 3


by Henry Farkas


I actually didn't need to buy a car during the COVID-19 pandemic. My wife and I are in our 70s. Where could we go? But Elon Musk took a couple of thousand dollars off the price of the M3. I figured he'd raise the price once there was a cure or a vaccine. I had already test driven all the fully electric cars before the pandemic started, and Tesla's Full Self Driving (FSD) was better than the lane keeping of the other electric cars. And Tesla gives free software updates. None of the other car companies do that.


I've had the Tesla for around three weeks now. During this time, I've received two software updates. My previous car, a Chevy Volt that my wife had I leased and then bought at the end of the lease, got one software update at the beginning of the lease when I complained to the dealer that cruise control often stopped working apropos of nothing while I was driving on the Interstate highway in good weather. I had to take the car into the service center for the update, and I had to wait around an hour or so. The update didn't solve the problem, but it reduced the frequency of the issue.


Anyway, back to the Tesla. I paid the extra seven thousand dollars for the FSD feature because my wife doesn't think I'm a good driver. So I figured I'd go with the artificial intelligence of the Tesla that's had several billion miles of driving experience.


Sadly, artificial intelligence doesn't benefit from driving experience quite as well as biological intelligence, at least human biological intelligence.


My criterion for excellent driving is driving that doesn't prompt my wife to comment negatively about a particular driving event during a car trip. I, personally, haven't achieved that rarified level of driving excellence except on very short trips to the grocery store or to nearby restaurants to pick up takeout food. In my defense, her driving would, at times, elicit comments from me if it weren't for the fact that such comments from me might have a negative effect on my ability to get lucky.


But I have to say that so far, both of us are way better drivers than the Tesla is.


I hope the Tesla aficionados can restrain themselves from flaming me over the previous statement. I want the Tesla to be as good a driver as a person who makes a living as a chauffeur for rich people, who never gets sleepy, and whose attention never wanders.


Tesla's AI just isn't there yet. My Tesla sees a red light or a stop sign ahead, it flashes a sign on the screen saying that it plans to stop in 500 feet, and it abruptly accelerates. It does stop in time, but why does it need to accelerate noticeably before it starts to slow down? This happens often. When there's time, an excellent chauffeur accelerates and decelerates so gently that passengers don't even notice that the speed of the vehicle is changing.

.

Possibly, not all people want such a sedate driving experience. If that's all it is, then the Tesla engineers can just put in a driving mode. They could call it Sedate Mode, or Chauffeur Mode, or just Make Your Spouse Happy Mode.


There's more issues with FSD besides abrupt changes in speed. When the Tesla is in the right lane on a limited access highway and it's passing an exit, the painted lines start to widen. The right thing to do if you don't plan to take the exit is to keep going straight. That's not what the Tesla does. Instead, it starts to veer right in order to stay centered between the lines. It does this with an abrupt noticeable movement. Then, when the line appears between the exit and the travel lane, the Tesla abruptly switches back to the center of the travel lane. The car should see far enough ahead to know that the lines are widening because there's an exit. It should know that unless there's a turn signal, the exit is not intended to be taken, and it shouldn't veer right to stay centered between the widening lines. Those movements don't merely upset the non-driving people in the car. They make the driver of the following car think, briefly, that the Tesla is about to exit without signaling. If the following driver speeds up figuring that the Tesla is about to exit, there could be an accident when the Tesla abruptly swerves back into the travel lane.


Finally, there's the really big issue that sometimes, the Tesla doesn't see an object stopped in the road. We know what the car sees and what it doesn't see. They show up on the left side of the center screen as we're driving along. I've had the car less than three weeks, and this has happened to me twice that I've noticed.


In summary, I like the FSD feature, but it's still not a good enough driver to make my wife happy, and it's not safe for the human drivers to take their attention off the road for even a few seconds. Judging by the way my FSD feature works, it's going to be a long time before I can send my Tesla out to work as a taxi when I won't be needing to drive it myself.
 
Review of FSD after software update end of July 2020.24.6.9

There has been an improvement. FSD isn't accelerating when it sees a red light or a stop sign before it stops. The car isn't swerving as abruptly to center itself in the lane when I turn on the FSD. It's coming to a stop at a red light or stop sign less abruptly. Notice, I didn't say smoothly, just less abruptly. Still swerving right when the land seems to widen instead of staying in the travel lane. Still swerving right when a big truck comes down the road on the other side of the double yellow line. But I took a trip, 15 miles round trip on country roads, and my wife didn't gasp or complain. So that's really good.
 
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Review of FSD after software update end of July 2020.24.6.9

There has been an improvement. FSD isn't accelerating when it sees a red light or a stop sign before it stops. The car isn't swerving as abruptly to center itself in the lane when I turn on the FSD. It's coming to a stop at a red light or stop sign less abruptly. Notice, I didn't say smoothly, just less abruptly. Still swerving right when the land seems to widen instead of staying in the travel lane. Still swerving right when a big truck comes down the road on the other side of the double yellow line. But I took a trip, 15 miles round trip on country roads, and my wife didn't gasp or complain. So that's really good.
It’s going to continue to get better, supposedly by the end of this year the new software is going to be miles ahead of what we are using today.
 
I have experienced much of what the OP has stated. But even in my short 4 months with the car, I can see improvements. I am confident that over time it will be much better.

My only real complaint is the super aggressive, "lane change to exit passing lane" functionality. In principle, I wholeheartedly appreciate that Tesla took the time to add this feature. However it needs some work, which I hope does improve sooner rather than later. In my opinion, this feature is too aggressive when leaving the passing lane.
  • I have observed that car trying to leave the lane seconds after getting into it. If there are no cars behind you, it should take it's time leaving the passing lane. (Perhaps a setting in the menus like "Mad Max" would help?)
  • Doesn't leave enough space in front of vehicles that have possession of the lane my car is merging into.
  • Attempts to move behind traffic that is slower, thereby needing to enter the passing lane again. This looks like weaving to following vehicles, and could get you ticketed.
I am aware that I can "tap to skip lane change," or not use the feature. I'm just calling out an area that could use improvement.

Experienced Autopilot users: do you like that when you take control of the steering wheel that TACC stays on? Of all of "intuitive" Tesla features, this might be the only that I find to work in an un-intuitive way. I would expect the functionality to be like pressing on the brake, and it would just take you off Autopilot AND Cruise Control.
 
Speaking of FSD behavior, it's movements are abrupt. Lane changes are abrupt. Lane centering when I turn on FSD is abrupt. Accelerations and decelerations are abrupt when they don't have to be abrupt. I'm new to my M3, but I have to say, if this is the way FSD behaves now, after all the software updates over the past few years, then it must have been terrible two years ago because it's unimpressive now. I don't want my car to be in Mad Max Mode. I want it to be in Driving Miss Daisy Mode.
 
I think all of this goes out the window when the new HW3 software structure is introduced. I'm sure we'll notice some backward steps again when that happens, but hopefully a lot of positive. I think it's pointless to project current performance out to FSD performance. It seems likely we're currently using NN object recognition with procedural code for driving at this point. It sounds like it'll be nearly all NN with the new structure, with faster frame rates and a better memory of past movement.

I don't know why the cars behave so differently. I have to assume each driver (and passenger) has different expectations. To me (on Mad Max if that makes any difference) lane changes are a little slow. Stops are student driver slow, which is actually OK. At least I know what it's thinking. Starts from a stop sign are impossibly slow. I always goose it along with the accelerator. I rarely have a problem with abrupt centering when enabling AP and that was maybe a year ago. It seems completely seamless when I disable AP, no "slammed on the brakes" feeling. I have had it uncentered in the lane for a day or two after a firmware update, but after it "calibrates" or whatever it all seems fine.

I have a hard time reconciling my AP experience with some of the other drivers on TMC. Someone might be expecting a chauffeured limousine experience where they can drink tea while driving in the city. Someone might be expecting a NY cab driver experience that gets them to work through heavy traffic as fast as possible. But even taking that into account I sometimes wonder if they are driving the same car I am.

We updated to 2020.28.6 last night and drove the 3 this morning on freeway and local streets with "stop for stoplights and stop signs" and Autosteer active (+5 MPH yea!). Seemed pretty normal to me, though due to the now departed +0 MPH limit this is the first time I've used Autosteer on city streets recently.
 
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Didn’t read every word of this lengthy post but I think I got the tone. No, your car (hopefully) isn’t a better driver than you are — yet. But I will bet it has much sharper reflexes and better vision than you do. So trust it like a 15 year old with a learner’s permit and you will find you are a much better driver than you were before. Also, hold off on using the latest unproven autopilot features like stoplight recognition until you are much more comfortable with the car. (I have had my two Teslas for 6 years combined and still often turn off half-baked features like the latest stoplight crap.)
Now that I've become more familiar with the car, I have a concept that no one but me will like. Here it is. Set the settings on chill, not normal and set the steering on sedate, not sport. FSD still isn't as smooth as I'd like for it to be, but it's way smoother than it was when I first started driving it. There's still plenty of pickup and steering responsiveness when needed even with the "Driving Miss Daisy" settings.