Blog Rivian Gets Range Rating of 316 Miles for R1T Pickup

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has posted official range estimates for the Rivian’s all-electric pickup and sport-utility vehicle. 

According to a posting on the agency’s website, the R1T pickup truck has an official EPA range of 314 miles, while its R1T SUV received a rating of 316 miles. Rivian has promised at least 300 miles of range.

The “Launch edition” of the R1T pickup and R1S SUV will have a 135-kWh battery pack. Future trim packages will also include the “large pack” battery. Rivian plans a future “Max pack” that will push range over 400 miles.

While pickups are among the most popular vehicles in the U.S., there has yet to be a competitive electric pickup option. With deliveries for Rivian beginning this month, the startup automaker will have the first compelling option on the market.

 

[Ogre]

Sometimes, I need to charge closer to 100%, sometimes I may start charging cold and the process takes longer. Time limit on charging = rationing gasoline.

Been there myself.

My above post was intended as an example of how they might do it. I don't know what they will actually implement.

I would hope that whatever structure they come up with it is designed to make charging fair and efficient for everyone. Rationing is one way of fairly distributing a limited resource. In this case, the resource is *time at the charger*. If all the stalls are occupied and there are 5 people waiting to charge, should someone with a Bolt sucking 50kW be able to camp the charger for 75 minutes making everyone wait? If someone rolls up in a F150 Lightning and it's going to take them 90 minutes to charge are you going to smile the whole time?

Right now some busy Superchargers will cut you off after you hit 80% charge. If you have a non-Tesla EV, I don't know if they can enforce that 80% or not, but at a 250kW charger, 30 minutes is enough to get most Teslas from 10% up to 80% charge.

Edit: Also, if it's time based, they can vary the amount of time based on how many stalls are occupied. For example: If there are fewer than 50% of stalls occupied, no time limit. With half the stalls full 45 minutes, 75% full 35 minutes, 100% full 30 minutes flat.

 

[WhiteWi]

Also not sure why it should be fair for everyone. It should be prioritized for Tesla. Look at the EA they have one charger than we can use with adapter. Tesla should do the same make one or two stalls for other brands and call it a done deal just like EA.

 

[alexgr]

Charging per minute is not legal in some states (California for example).

Cutting off charging after a set time and applying an idle fee is legal.

Then charge them for parking per minute.

 

[21EV]

I think the scenario of having a couple of stalls with the CCS Combo plug for other customers would probably work. I do wonder if they will be switching to the industry standard plug type now that there is one, like in Europe. It would create some short term pain for sure but would be very helpful in the long term.

 

[Ogre]

Also not sure why it should be fair for everyone. It should be prioritized for Tesla.

If the government is paying for Tesla to install Superchargers, it should be fair to all makers. Some of that is in the law, some of it is IMO ethics. If they take money for a public good, it should go to meet that need, not their own corporate needs. (I know lots of companies fail this)

If Tesla is funding the Superchargers, they should be able to do whatever they want.

Then charge them for parking per minute.

If it's legal to do it that way, I'd be fine with it. I'm just suggesting what I think is workable within the framework of the law as I understand it.

I think the scenario of having a couple of stalls with the CCS Combo plug for other customers would probably work. I do wonder if they will be switching to the industry standard plug type now that there is one, like in Europe. It would create some short term pain for sure but would be very helpful in the long term.

Tesla doesn't have the market share there they do here. Also, Europe tends to structure their laws differently from here.

 

[alexgr]

I think the scenario of having a couple of stalls with the CCS Combo plug for other customers would probably work. I do wonder if they will be switching to the industry standard plug type now that there is one, like in Europe. It would create some short term pain for sure but would be very helpful in the long term.

Tesla plug is THE BEST! Considering that some 70% US EVs are Tesla, no need to switch the plug.

 

[21EV]

Tesla plug is THE BEST! Considering that some 70% US EVs are Tesla, no need to switch the plug.

They are currently the best because they were first, at least when it comes to infrastructure. Imagine in 5 years when many other companies are making EVs and Tesla’s market share is 25%. If incentives are passed to really ramp up the infrastructure then there will be plenty of stations that Tesla drivers won’t be able to use or won’t be able to use easily. None of us can predict the future but this scenario is certainly possible. I’d prefer to be able to use Tesla’s network but then have the option of another network if it was cheaper, more convenient, etc.

 

[Ogre]

They are currently the best because they were first, at least when it comes to infrastructure. Imagine in 5 years when many other companies are making EVs and Tesla’s market share is 25%. If incentives are passed to really ramp up the infrastructure then there will be plenty of stations that Tesla drivers won’t be able to use or won’t be able to use easily. None of us can predict the future but this scenario is certainly possible. I’d prefer to be able to use Tesla’s network but then have the option of another network if it was cheaper, more convenient, etc.

Maybe. But we've been hearing this for 15 years now and the scary big bad auto has pretty much fallen down while Tesla ramped up to over a million cars a year and is doubling that production next year.

GM has been chasing them for 5+ years and they have just recalled every single EV they have ever produced.

Nissan's Leaf has been on the market for more than 10 years and was the #1 selling EV in the US for a while and now it's barely in 5th place with Tesla selling 20x more cars per quarter.

BMW has been trying for 5+ years and managed to produce a weird city car nobody bought. The Model 3 trounced the BMW 3 Series and it's entire category even without incentives. The Model Y is trashing BMW's lucrative luxury compact SUV.

VW has had EVs for 6+ years...

How many million cars do you let Tesla sell before you get "Serious" about EVs?

Right now it seems like big auto is more focused on short term gains than they are on pushing into the future. They let Tesla steal a huge amount of market share... and not just "EV" market share. Tesla dominates the premium sedan market (total, not just EV) and are quickly losing the mid-high end compact SUV market to Tesla as well.

I'm sure big auto is going to spend billions chasing Tesla, but Tesla has had 15 years of aggressive spending on R&D and building out infrastructure. Ford promised to spend $30 billion over the next 8 years on EV research... Tesla is likely to outspend that by a good margin.

Paint me skeptical, Ford needs to spend a lot more than that and a lot more aggressively. Very very soon, EVs are going to be the best vehicles in every bracket and companies still selling ICE are going to be left holding the bag.

(Sorry for the rant)

 

[21EV]

Maybe. But we've been hearing this for 15 years now and the scary big bad auto has pretty much fallen down while Tesla ramped up to over a million cars a year and is doubling that production next year.

GM has been chasing them for 5+ years and they have just recalled every single EV they have ever produced.

Nissan's Leaf has been on the market for more than 10 years and was the #1 selling EV in the US for a while and now it's barely in 5th place with Tesla selling 20x more cars per quarter.

BMW has been trying for 5+ years and managed to produce a weird city car nobody bought. The Model 3 trounced the BMW 3 Series and it's entire category even without incentives. The Model Y is trashing BMW's lucrative luxury compact SUV.

VW has had EVs for 6+ years...

How many million cars do you let Tesla sell before you get "Serious" about EVs?

Right now it seems like big auto is more focused on short term gains than they are on pushing into the future. They let Tesla steal a huge amount of market share... and not just "EV" market share. Tesla dominates the premium sedan market (total, not just EV) and are quickly losing the mid-high end compact SUV market to Tesla as well.

I'm sure big auto is going to spend billions chasing Tesla, but Tesla has had 15 years of aggressive spending on R&D and building out infrastructure. Ford promised to spend $30 billion over the next 8 years on EV research... Tesla is likely to outspend that by a good margin.

Paint me skeptical, Ford needs to spend a lot more than that and a lot more aggressively. Very very soon, EVs are going to be the best vehicles in every bracket and companies still selling ICE are going to be left holding the bag.

(Sorry for the rant)

You aren't ranting but perhaps I wasn't clear since I was by no means knocking Tesla. I would consider a 25% market share in 5 years a success, given the new entrants in the quickly growing market and the incentives that will likely add fuel to the market (or should I say electrons?).

Here is how I came up with my earlier estimate (let's just use the US for now).

1. Total US market for vehicle sales - 17.2M (2018)
2. Total EV New Vehicle Sales - ~400,000 (2020), this is the number I'm most unsure about and iss somewhere around 2.4% of new car sales
3. Total Tesla Sales - 235,000 (2020) so let's say 300,000 today, so that is 75% market share in EV segment but between 2-3% of the total US market.
4. Typical time to bring a new car to market - 5 years
5. My own estimate for when the majority of automotive companies started taking Tesla seriously - 2019, after it was clear that Tesla can make a mass market car. So we will likely see cars from most manufacturers in this space by 2024.
6. Total mass market EV cars on the market with 200+ mile range when the Model 3 was released - 1 (I think it was only the model 3)
7. Total mass market EV cars on the market with 200+ mile range this year - Just a quick count of non-luxury offerings I came up with 8.
8. EV Market projections - one source says 1,210,000 in 2026 (5 years from now) which I think is very pessimistic and probably the low end or most peoples projections.

Let's say the total vehicle market in the US reaches 20 million by 2026 and EVs make up 40% that would put the EV market at 8,000,000 vehicles. Now if Tesla's market share is 25% they would be selling 2,000,000 per year which actually puts them in the realm of Toyota in the total market not just EVs.

Another point, I don't think Tesla wants to be everything for everyone in the automobile market so other players are needed. There will be some segments where Tesla is by far the leader, like the premium/near-luxury segment they participate in today and some segments where they won't sell anything like perhaps the mini-van segment.

Here are a few sources I've been using:

U.S. light vehicle market share by automotive manufacturer 2023 | Statista

Two American brands held some of the largest US auto market shares in 2023, each at 13 percent or over. Toyota Motor Corporation ranked second.

www.statista.com

Highest ever electric-car market share in the US

According to data provided by IHS Markit, battery-electric vehicle registrations reached a record market share of 1.8% in 2020. Plug-in hybrids were excluded from the report. US vs China & Europe Earlier, news reached us that Europe had overtaken China as the biggest EV market in the world with...

www.globalfleet.com

Tesla Sales — Global & Country by Country

Tesla & Other EV Sales — Global & Country by Country This page is dedicated to sharing recent highlights of Tesla sales in various markets and market segments. Some sales charts are below, but more charts are included in the associated articles. World #1 Tesla Model 3 = 14% of ... [continued]

cleantechnica.com

Tesla News and Reviews | InsideEVs

Get the latest on new Tesla models including spy shots, first drives, in-depth reviews, concept car photos, new features and more.

insideevs.com

Topic: Tesla

Tesla is the leading producer of plug-in electric vehicles globally. Its Model 3 has become the world's best-selling all-electric vehicle model.

www.statista.com

Tesla owns 79% of the electric car market in the US, and that needs to change

Tesla owns almost 79% of the electric car market in the US, according to registration data, but that needs to...

electrek.co

 

[WhiteWi]

Tesla sales in US were almost 300k last year that is 79% EV market share in US in 2020.

 

[Stavinski]

The pickup bed is just too short for me. I am not canceling my F150 reservation for the R1T. Maybe I will check again when there is an R2T or R3T.

Same here. I’m a perfect electric truck target buyer. Short range needs, willing to lean in a tad on cost to avoid gas stations. Rivian’s bed size has kept me from making a deposit. if Ford can’t make my lightening next year I may go for Rivian anyways assuming most of them don’t burn to the ground as their first product.

 

[Merrill]

Same here. I’m a perfect electric truck target buyer. Short range needs, willing to lean in a tad on cost to avoid gas stations. Rivian’s bed size has kept me from making a deposit. if Ford can’t make my lightening next year I may go for Rivian anyways assuming most of them don’t burn to the ground as their first product.

The short bed is what I need, the lightning is to long.

 

[Ogre]

You aren't ranting but perhaps I wasn't clear since I was by no means knocking Tesla. I would consider a 25% market share in 5 years a success, given the new entrants in the quickly growing market and the incentives that will likely add fuel to the market (or should I say electrons?).

I think the place to start is batteries and battery technology. If Tesla's share is to be 25%, battery supply would have to equal Tesla's extremely aggressive battery ramp up times 4. Are the other battery makers combined going to be able to make more than 3 times more batteries than Tesla is? I say more than 3 times because Teslas are also the most efficient vehicles on the market and are likely to remain so for some time so they need smaller battery packs for the same range/ capacity.

Ford is investing $30 billion in EVs over the next 10 years. That isn't going to get them Tesla scale battery production in that time frame.

GM, Stellantis, VW are investing similarly.

I'd agree that the market is going to get a lot more tight, but I don't see anyone else's infrastructure build out being remotely close.

From what I can tell, the big auto makers are still putting lots of money into compliance vehicles like plug in hybrids. It's where they can make profits and claim "EV" credit, but long term its a dead end. I don't think consumers are going to buy into that for long. Hell... what they chose to demo to President Biden was a PHEV.

I just don't see big auto moving fast enough.

 

[Merrill]

I think the place to start is batteries and battery technology. If Tesla's share is to be 25%, battery supply would have to equal Tesla's extremely aggressive battery ramp up times 4. Are the other battery makers combined going to be able to make more than 3 times more batteries than Tesla is? I say more than 3 times because Teslas are also the most efficient vehicles on the market and are likely to remain so for some time so they need smaller battery packs for the same range/ capacity.

Ford is investing $30 billion in EVs over the next 10 years. That isn't going to get them Tesla scale battery production in that time frame.

GM, Stellantis, VW are investing similarly.

I'd agree that the market is going to get a lot more tight, but I don't see anyone else's infrastructure build out being remotely close.

From what I can tell, the big auto makers are still putting lots of money into compliance vehicles like plug in hybrids. It's where they can make profits and claim "EV" credit, but long term its a dead end. I don't think consumers are going to buy into that for long. Hell... what they chose to demo to President Biden was a PHEV.

I just don't see big auto moving fast enough.

GM is heavily involved with the fossil fuel industry so still want to sell ICE cars.

 

[BooMan]

Tesla as compared to the other manufacturers tends to be more conservative in their range estimates, and real world experience tends to support that statement.
Ford at least offers the number with a 1000lb payload.
While I'm not a Tesla fanboy, all these discussions are just loose talk until these 'trucks' are in the wild.
And no one save a few very early adopters will get them for a couple years yet due to delivery/manufacturing constraints.
By which time, they will have changed again....

Wait, are you saying Tesla is conservative with stated range vs real life?? No offense but are you serious? Not trying to start a flame war nor invalidating your personal experience BUT as a Tesla owner and friends with several others I have never heard that Tesla is conservative with stated range. They are on the more optimistic side of the spectrum from my real world experience and that of everyone I have spoken to (or seen antidotally) from “media”. A

I only used MX as a comparison bc it's the closest current tesla vehicle that has SOME overlap. Pretty significant overlap. It has good towing capacity and a very large interior for hauling. And while you can't put a kayak on top, you can easily tow one or a few. It's decent off road, I've taken mine a few times, similar but obviously less capable, to what a stock rivian will be able to do.

But I do agree the cyber truck is a better comparison, which honestly at this point will probably be out in VERY significant numbers by the time rivian gets anything CLOSE to significant numbers.

I disagree on the the range estimates. It's all standardized. That's the ONLY way to do it. I always drive with heat blasting and high speeds and floor it all the time, so my range sucks.
..... But I'm SURE it would suck much more in that inefficient box from rivian, a company that has no clue about making vehicles besides making a cute product that tempts. Popping bigger batteries is very counter productive for weight range handling and top of all price and profit. No way it will sustain.

i respect your take on the X to Rivian RST comparison but still think it’s flawed to compare them IMOH. Comparing an SUV/CUV to a truck (electric or not) is simply odd to me. Hell a Model S can probably carry a lot too (plus carry ski’s and kayaks and stuff) on top but it’s still not a truck.
And the range aurgument sounds good but if real world is so different vs EPA than I would argue it’s another flawed comparison. Granted this is more an issue with how the EPA test than anything but makes true standard comparisons useless when OEMs can simply choose which correction factor they want (within a range). Unless all OEM’s choose the same correction factor the test is not standard thus useless for relative comparison sake.

 

[tangible1]

Wait, are you saying Tesla is conservative with stated range vs real life?? No offense but are you serious? Not trying to start a flame war nor invalidating your personal experience BUT as a Tesla owner and friends with several others I have never heard that Tesla is conservative with stated range. They are on the more optimistic side of the spectrum from my real world experience and that of everyone I have spoken to (or seen antidotally) from “media”. A

i respect your take on the X to Rivian RST comparison but still think it’s flawed to compare them IMOH. Comparing an SUV/CUV to a truck (electric or not) is simply odd to me. Hell a Model S can probably carry a lot too (plus carry ski’s and kayaks and stuff) on top but it’s still not a truck.
And the range aurgument sounds good but if real world is so different vs EPA than I would argue it’s another flawed comparison. Granted this is more an issue with how the EPA test than anything but makes true standard comparisons useless when OEMs can simply choose which correction factor they want (within a range). Unless all OEM’s choose the same correction factor the test is not standard thus useless for relative comparison sake.

I guess we all have to wait and see the real world for ourselves, rather than endlessly speculate online.
My experience, and that of 3 of my friends who all have M3's, is that the range estimates from Tesla are more valid than not.
YMMV !!

 

[jaqueh]

I guess we all have to wait and see the real world for ourselves, rather than endlessly speculate online.
My experience, and that of 3 of my friends who all have M3's, is that the range estimates from Tesla are more valid than not.
YMMV !!

SoCal is a very temperate, flat if you're in the valley or most of the large cities, and also slow moving place because of the levels of traffic, so it makes sense that you would say that.

 

[tangible1]

SoCal is a very temperate, flat if you're in the valley or most of the large cities, and also slow moving place because of the levels of traffic, so it makes sense that you would say that.

Average speed on the highways exclusive of rush hours in LA approaches 80mph. Again, YMMV, and my many trips to the Bay Area haven't shown that much difference from LA.
But for 20 years I've driven 30,000 miles a year, so I may have a different perspective than some.

 

[BostonBurley]

Charging per minute is not legal in some states (California for example).

Cutting off charging after a set time and applying an idle fee is legal.

I was at ChargePoint dcfc in a Bolt and it was 20 cents per minute. Cal State LA. Many chargers use time instead of kWh around LA. I know first hand.

 

[Ogre]

I was at ChargePoint dcfc in a Bolt and it was 20 cents per minute. Cal State LA. Many chargers use time instead of kWh around LA. I know first hand.

Then they are breaking the law. This is pretty widely known. (EDIT: Reading the article, sounds like existing chargers have a decade or so to get into compliance)

I'm not sure how Tesla gets around not having a display on Superchargers (maybe because you see it on the dash?) but you definitely cannot charge per minute for EV charging.