Rumbling noise with balanced wheels and normal alignment

[Yozer34]

A while back I noticed my Model 3 producing a rumbling noise on smoother roads, especially newly paved ones. Here’s a video I took on a newly paved road:

The wheels are well balanced and an alignment check showed no issues. The suspension on the wheels looks okay according to the mechanic I took the car to.

One thing I did find was more wear on the innermost side of all 4 tires. I’ve attached photos of each tire. There isn’t a huge difference in wear between the inner and outer sides, but been told by Tesla and other people that this is normal for Teslas given the weight of the battery.

My car is an AWD and current mileage is around 26k Miles. Did start noticing the issue close to 20k.

My question is, could higher wear on the inner tires be causing this noise? Should I be concerned about something else? Tesla service and a couple other shops I went to weren’t helpful apart from testing alignment and balancing tires.

 

[RayK]

Wheel bearings?

 

[Yozer34]

oh yeah wheel bearings are okay, forgot to mention!
i should add that the rumbling noise is only noticeable from 45-50 mph onwards, so at relatively higher speeds. It’s also practically unnoticeable on roads that aren’t smooth.

 

[gtgarner]

A while back I noticed my Model 3 producing a rumbling noise on smoother roads, especially newly paved ones. Here’s a video I took on a newly paved road:

The wheels are well balanced and an alignment check showed no issues. The suspension on the wheels looks okay according to the mechanic I took the car to.

One thing I did find was more wear on the innermost side of all 4 tires. I’ve attached photos of each tire. There isn’t a huge difference in wear between the inner and outer sides, but been told by Tesla and other people that this is normal for Teslas given the weight of the battery.

My car is an AWD and current mileage is around 26k Miles. Did start noticing the issue close to 20k.

My question is, could higher wear on the inner tires be causing this noise? Should I be concerned about something else? Tesla service and a couple other shops I went to weren’t helpful apart from testing alignment and balancing tires.
View attachment 978819View attachment 978820View attachment 978821View attachment 978822

It happens to me also - when everything is smooth and quiet. I have a 2018 P3D.

Are you hungry?

My rumbling goes away when I eat.



Just kidding. I hope you find the problem.

 

[Yozer34]

It happens to me also - when everything is smooth and quiet. I have a 2018 P3D.

Are you hungry?

My rumbling goes away when I eat.



Just kidding. I hope you find the problem.

Lol you had me there for a second

 

[RayK]

For me, if it's at higher speeds and you feel the rumble, more than hear the noise, it's a case of tire balance. A few weeks before I replaced my factory MXM4s with a set of Potenza RE980AS+ last month, I began to feel a vibration at highway speeds. Most of the feeling was from the cabin and a little bit through the steering wheel. All went away when I took the car in and had all four tires dynamically (computer) re-balanced. Wasted $80 as I replaced the Michelins 10 days later as the tire store I go to had a sale, but oh well...

Not sure if your uneven wear is the source of your rumbling. From the description and looks, that sounds like excessive negative camber. As part of my tire purchase I also had an alignment done. Pre-alignment was -0.4 LF, -0.7 RF, -0.6 LR and -0.7 RR; afterwards only the RF and LR changed 0.1 more positive. From memory, I don't believe that my factory tires were as unevenly worn as yours. The front pair had almost 28K miles, the rear about 18K (I replaced the two rear tires as one had a non-repairable puncture and both were worn down pretty far). When you had your alignment done, did you get a report?

 

[Yozer34]

I did the alignment check about 2 weeks ago.

As regards to the noise, I can actually hear it more than I can feel it. I can definitely feel it through the steering wheel, but it's quite mild. The noise is relatively loud.

Did the balancing on the same day, and only a quarter of ounce was added to one of the wheels, so the balancing is not the issue.

Thank you for your input. I'm very frustrated since I am spending hundreds of dollars on these useless visits.

 

[RayK]

Front upper control arms?

Inspect and re-seal front upper control arm by mobile service

Got a text message today from Tesla Mobile Service asking me if I would like to schedule a mobile tech to come out and perform service on my front upper control arms per a recently released (???) service bulletin. I haven't had any problems in that area, as far as I know, but since they said...

teslamotorsclub.com

I'm reaching for possible culprits. Usually presents as a squeaking noise at low speed but maybe....

 

[blackT3$!@]

Did the balancing on the same day, and only a quarter of ounce was added to one of the wheels, so the balancing is not the issue.

It wouldn't be the first time a "tire engineer" didn't balance the tire properly. Not to say they were deliberate, but it could still be the issue.

 

[vogz]

Looks like textbook mild feathering on the inside edge of your tires. That would cause the rumbling noise you're reporting. It's usually caused by out of spec toe causing the tires to "scrub" the inside edge as they spin which causes the tread blocks to wear unevenly from front to back. Your toe appears to be in spec, so I'm not sure what the cause is here.

 

[Yozer34]

Looks like textbook mild feathering on the inside edge of your tires. That would cause the rumbling noise you're reporting. It's usually caused by out of spec toe causing the tires to "scrub" the inside edge as they spin which causes the tread blocks to wear unevenly from front to back. Your toe appears to be in spec, so I'm not sure what the cause is here.

Ok thanks for pointing that out. Ive read online that a faulty suspension could be another cause of feathering. Do you know of any other potential causes?

 

[vogz]

Ok thanks for pointing that out. Ive read online that a faulty suspension could be another cause of feathering. Do you know of any other potential causes?

Yes, excessive play in suspension bushings can cause toe to go in and out of spec as you drive, but you have very low miles, so I doubt that is the issue. Plus, a suspension issue like that would likely cause a loose feeling and possibly clunking noise from suspension components. Other than that There's really nothing else that causes feathering. Looking at your tire pics and referencing your alignment, it looks like the rear tires are toe in near max spec. If the rears are the ones that are feathering more, I'd start with pulling the extra positive toe in out of the rear. It appears that you regularly rotate your tires as none are more excessively worn so it's possible that all the feathering is coming from either the front or the rear.

 

[Yozer34]

Yes, excessive play in suspension bushings can cause toe to go in and out of spec as you drive, but you have very low miles, so I doubt that is the issue. Plus, a suspension issue like that would likely cause a loose feeling and possibly clunking noise from suspension components. Other than that There's really nothing else that causes feathering. Looking at your tire pics and referencing your alignment, it looks like the rear tires are toe in near max spec. If the rears are the ones that are feathering more, I'd start with pulling the extra positive toe in out of the rear. It appears that you regularly rotate your tires as none are more excessively worn so it's possible that all the feathering is coming from either the front or the rear.

thanks so much, that all makes sense.

My bad, should've noted that the tires were rotated just prior to the alignment check and to those photos. So the rear tires you see were the front for the last 10k miles and are more in line with the front part of the alignment if that makes sense.

As for rotation, I've only rotated at around 15k miles and a couple weeks ago at 26k.

 

[Wennfred]

Check the black plastic parts that surround the tire, sometimes that can become loose and grab some air at a certain speed. Something simple like that.

 

[Yozer34]

Looks like textbook mild feathering on the inside edge of your tires. That would cause the rumbling noise you're reporting. It's usually caused by out of spec toe causing the tires to "scrub" the inside edge as they spin which causes the tread blocks to wear unevenly from front to back. Your toe appears to be in spec, so I'm not sure what the cause is here.

Out of curiosity, would you be able to circle on of these pictures where the feathering is. I researched the term online and honestly it's pretty confusing!

 

[vogz]

If you brush your fingers across the edge of your tire’s tread block or bar, you’ll be able to feel if your tire has feathering. You’ll feel a softer, smoother surface on the areas that are feathered down. If this pattern is located on the inside of the tread block, this indicates excess toe-in. If the pattern is located on the outside of the tread block, it indicates excessive toe-out.

The middle of your inner most tread blocks are worn down.

 

[Yozer34]

If you brush your fingers across the edge of your tire’s tread block or bar, you’ll be able to feel if your tire has feathering. You’ll feel a softer, smoother surface on the areas that are feathered down. If this pattern is located on the inside of the tread block, this indicates excess toe-in. If the pattern is located on the outside of the tread block, it indicates excessive toe-out.

The middle of your inner most tread blocks are worn down.

Thank you!!

 

[vogz]

Thank you!!

No problem. Unfortunately the only remedy to get rid of the nose is new tires, but I'd want to get down to the cause before I'd buy new tires.

 

[Yozer34]

No problem. Unfortunately the only remedy to get rid of the nose is new tires, but I'd want to get down to the cause before I'd buy new tires.

I think I finally understand what's happening here. As you said, the positive toe (i.e. toe in) for the rear tires is on the upper side of the specifications, which explains why the first 2 photos in my post above (especially the first photo) show the most amount of inner wear. (These first 2 photos are of the rear tires that correspond to the rear alignment specs).
Please tell me if you agree with this: I could adjust the positive toe of the rear tires to 0.05, which is the minimum degree specified for the Model 3, and that will significantly reduce the toe-in of these tires, hence minimizing the disproportionate inner tire wear on the rear tires. Additionally, I could eliminate the negative camber for all tires, keeping in mind that negative camber also wears out the inner sides. All of these changes would be "within spec"
So in summary, even though the toe for the rear tires is currently within spec, it is on the upper end of specification, and hence contributing significantly to inner wear of the rear tires. This could be reduced to 0.05 (from 0.30 on left and 0.20 on the right) so that the tire wear could be more evenly distributed. Again, the camber can also be increase from -0.x to 0.0.
I feel like this is probably the only reasonable explanation for the feathering and resultant tire noise, and I may have just solved the puzzle (with your help). What do you think? (edit: I know this is literally what you said before. I guess I'm just wondering if having the positive toe near max spec would cause feathering like that)

 

[vogz]

I think I finally understand what's happening here. As you said, the positive toe (i.e. toe in) for the rear tires is on the upper side of the specifications, which explains why the first 2 photos in my post above (especially the first photo) show the most amount of inner wear. (These first 2 photos are of the rear tires that correspond to the rear alignment specs).
Please tell me if you agree with this: I could adjust the positive toe of the rear tires to 0.05, which is the minimum degree specified for the Model 3, and that will significantly reduce the toe-in of these tires, hence minimizing the disproportionate inner tire wear on the rear tires. Additionally, I could eliminate the negative camber for all tires, keeping in mind that negative camber also wears out the inner sides. All of these changes would be "within spec"
So in summary, even though the toe for the rear tires is currently within spec, it is on the upper end of specification, and hence contributing significantly to inner wear of the rear tires. This could be reduced to 0.05 (from 0.30 on left and 0.20 on the right) so that the tire wear could be more evenly distributed. Again, the camber can also be increase from -0.x to 0.0.
I feel like this is probably the only reasonable explanation for the feathering and resultant tire noise, and I may have just solved the puzzle (with your help). What do you think? (edit: I know this is literally what you said before. I guess I'm just wondering if having the positive toe near max spec would cause feathering like that)

You're on the right track, but I will say the negative camber, unless it's really aggressive (-2 degrees or more) won't wear the inside edge of the tire. If you tried to pull the camber out (which I don't even know if the model 3 suspension has the adjustability to do) you're going to hurt how the car handles in turns. The toe is likely the issue. For example, I have a modified 911 Turbo with about 1.5 degrees of negative camber dialed in and I don't have any inner edge wear at all. but I also added adjustable toe arms to pull the toe out as camber is added.