M3 Alignment+Tires after 5 years

[joeuser]

So my 2018 M3 LR AWD will be 5 years old this November. Recently started hearing weird road noise, which I thought was related to the recent work that they did (rear drive unit failed, they replaced it). I took it back (walk-in), had a tech with me on a test drive in my car, I demonstrated the noise (which was like a helicopter), he thought could be tires, but not sure. I scheduled an appointment for them to look into it further as "rotational groan". On day of appointment, tech (someone else) rode with me again to diagnose. He thought it was tires. They asked me to leave the car to diag further.

Day later, they said I needed new tires at 27.5k miles (I was still on stock 18inch Michelin Primacys), saying my tread was almost gone. The said, the placed loaner wheels (with its own set of tires) on my car and the noise went away. I asked them if they could put my wheels on another Model 3 and see if the noise is still there, but they wouldn't go the distance on that request. They quoted me upwards of $2k to replace tires and performing a wheel alignment. I declined service, I picked up the car and paid a diagnostic fee, which was negligible.

I then did two things:
1. Took the car to Goodyear for the free alignment check (image attached)... They don't think car needs alignment, according to them alignment is spot on, but I think it can still be tweaked further. Tech was fairly knowledgeable and said the wear is mostly due to vehicle weight and the instant torque.
2. Bought a tool to check my tire tread. Fronts at 5/32, Rears are 4/32 and 3/32, and never did rotation, so I do agree tires need changing. Settled on Vredestein Quatrac Pro.

So my question is: Before/After/When having the Vredesteins being put on the tesla 18" aero wheels, should I have the alignment tweaked further. If so, what would I want to tweak to maximize tire life and have even wear (I will be performing rotations every 5~6k miles after the Vredesteins are on). I don't feel the car pulling. I drive with the steering in sport mode, mostly as a hyper-miler with chill-mode accel, but perhaps I don't feel the car pulling even though it may be very slight (not sure). I don't really launch the car, unless I am demoing to someone who hasn't sat in the car, which probably is once in a year (tops).

My goal here is to minimize tire wear and extend tire life, and I bring my car to a relatively slow speed before cornering/turning and consider myself to be a good judge of when to release the accelerator to allow for one-pedal drive (rarely put foot on brakes). Any recommendations/suggestions. Please let me know ? I'm very keen to get the Quatracs on!

 

[Tam]

So my 2018 M3 LR AWD will be 5 years old this November. Recently started hearing weird road noise, which I thought was related to the recent work that they did (rear drive unit failed, they replaced it). I took it back (walk-in), had a tech with me on a test drive in my car, I demonstrated the noise (which was like a helicopter), he thought could be tires, but not sure. I scheduled an appointment for them to look into it further as "rotational groan". On day of appointment, tech (someone else) rode with me again to diagnose. He thought it was tires. They asked me to leave the car to diag further.

Day later, they said I needed new tires at 27.5k miles (I was still on stock 18inch Michelin Primacys), saying my tread was almost gone. The said, the placed loaner wheels (with its own set of tires) on my car and the noise went away. I asked them if they could put my wheels on another Model 3 and see if the noise is still there, but they wouldn't go the distance on that request. They quoted me upwards of $2k to replace tires and performing a wheel alignment. I declined service, I picked up the car and paid a diagnostic fee, which was negligible.

I then did two things:
1. Took the car to Goodyear for the free alignment check (image attached)... They don't think car needs alignment, according to them alignment is spot on, but I think it can still be tweaked further. Tech was fairly knowledgeable and said the wear is mostly due to vehicle weight and the instant torque.
2. Bought a tool to check my tire tread. Fronts at 5/32, Rears are 4/32 and 3/32, and never did rotation, so I do agree tires need changing. Settled on Vredestein Quatrac Pro.

So my question is: Before/After/When having the Vredesteins being put on the tesla 18" aero wheels, should I have the alignment tweaked further. If so, what would I want to tweak to maximize tire life and have even wear (I will be performing rotations every 5~6k miles after the Vredesteins are on). I don't feel the car pulling. I drive with the steering in sport mode, mostly as a hyper-miler with chill-mode accel, but perhaps I don't feel the car pulling even though it may be very slight (not sure). I don't really launch the car, unless I am demoing to someone who hasn't sat in the car, which probably is once in a year (tops).

My goal here is to minimize tire wear and extend tire life, and I bring my car to a relatively slow speed before cornering/turning and consider myself to be a good judge of when to release the accelerator to allow for one-pedal drive (rarely put foot on brakes). Any recommendations/suggestions. Please let me know ? I'm very keen to get the Quatracs on!

The graphics look green. I would do an alignment if it looks red.

So, did the noise go away with the new tires?

 

[joeuser]

The graphics look green. I would do an alignment if it looks red.

So, did the noise go away with the new tires?

I haven't had them being put on, yet. Just came on Saturday. Figuring out where to take them for install. FYI, the new tires are 9.5~10/32 tread depth and look amazing.

Going back to the alignment though, I think the alignment could be tweaked but I'm not an alignment expert here and posted my question mostly to ask what would we better numbers than what I'm seeing based on my described driving style. I'm looking to go back to Goodyear and ask them to tweak the alignment if I get recommendations based on what I am currently seeing. I think the toe being out is slightly concerning, along with the caster difference... The negative camber is good but I would like to see mirror values on both sides if possible.

 

[GHammer]

Camber is not adjustable. The only thing I would say is to get the rear toe as close to zero as possible. I have those Vredstiens on my S right now and have gotten 35k out of them so far which is more than either of the Goodyear or Michelin OEM's I've used.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

I've never actually seen a car aligned to be entirely in the green like that. Usually they just try to get the toe barely in range and then leave everything else whack, In other words, don't mess with it. Also, note that misalignments only cause *uneven* tire wear, so there's nothing to improve if your tires are wearing evenly.

 

[KenC]

So my 2018 M3 LR AWD will be 5 years old this November. Recently started hearing weird road noise, which I thought was related to the recent work that they did (rear drive unit failed, they replaced it). I took it back (walk-in), had a tech with me on a test drive in my car, I demonstrated the noise (which was like a helicopter), he thought could be tires, but not sure. I scheduled an appointment for them to look into it further as "rotational groan". On day of appointment, tech (someone else) rode with me again to diagnose. He thought it was tires. They asked me to leave the car to diag further.

Day later, they said I needed new tires at 27.5k miles (I was still on stock 18inch Michelin Primacys), saying my tread was almost gone. The said, the placed loaner wheels (with its own set of tires) on my car and the noise went away. I asked them if they could put my wheels on another Model 3 and see if the noise is still there, but they wouldn't go the distance on that request. They quoted me upwards of $2k to replace tires and performing a wheel alignment. I declined service, I picked up the car and paid a diagnostic fee, which was negligible.

I then did two things:
1. Took the car to Goodyear for the free alignment check (image attached)... They don't think car needs alignment, according to them alignment is spot on, but I think it can still be tweaked further. Tech was fairly knowledgeable and said the wear is mostly due to vehicle weight and the instant torque.
2. Bought a tool to check my tire tread. Fronts at 5/32, Rears are 4/32 and 3/32, and never did rotation, so I do agree tires need changing. Settled on Vredestein Quatrac Pro.

So my question is: Before/After/When having the Vredesteins being put on the tesla 18" aero wheels, should I have the alignment tweaked further. If so, what would I want to tweak to maximize tire life and have even wear (I will be performing rotations every 5~6k miles after the Vredesteins are on). I don't feel the car pulling. I drive with the steering in sport mode, mostly as a hyper-miler with chill-mode accel, but perhaps I don't feel the car pulling even though it may be very slight (not sure). I don't really launch the car, unless I am demoing to someone who hasn't sat in the car, which probably is once in a year (tops).

My goal here is to minimize tire wear and extend tire life, and I bring my car to a relatively slow speed before cornering/turning and consider myself to be a good judge of when to release the accelerator to allow for one-pedal drive (rarely put foot on brakes). Any recommendations/suggestions. Please let me know ? I'm very keen to get the Quatracs on!

You've had the OEM tires on your car for almost 5yrs, and only driven 27.5k miles? Impressive. Your tires have even wear across the tread? Also impressive for almost 5yrs.

If your wheels are aligned, they're aligned. I've had the Quatrac Pros for a year, and they're very good. No issues. Your plan sounds fine.

 

[RayK]

You've had the OEM tires on your car for almost 5yrs, and only driven 27.5k miles? Impressive. Your tires have even wear across the tread? Also impressive for almost 5yrs.

I recently replaced all four tires on my 2018 LR RWD. Fronts were original MXM4s (just over 5 years old), while the rears were replaced with the same factory MXM4s about 14K miles ago, so in other words, half the life of the fronts. Both rears were replaced around 14K miles on the car; one had a second puncture which was not repairable, while the other was worn down (3-4/32nds from what I remembered). Thread depth last month for all four were 4/32nds and were evenly worn. I never rotated the tires in the 5+ years. The car had almost 28K miles. I've been retired for the last 4 years so that accounts for the low mileage.

When they were replaced with a set of RE980AS+ last month I had an alignment done. Here's the report:

Only a couple of parameters were out of range, but both not too much. What continues to amaze me is that 2 sets of rears lasted the same amount of miles as the original front pair. While I admit that I have a heavy right foot at times, I don't leave rubber on ground or chirp the tires. I had thought that the fronts would be the first to go, with my habit of accelerating through corners, but they held out pretty well. We'll see how the Potenzas do....

 

[joeuser]

Camber is not adjustable. The only thing I would say is to get the rear toe as close to zero as possible. I have those Vredstiens on my S right now and have gotten 35k out of them so far which is more than either of the Goodyear or Michelin OEM's I've used.

I recently watched a YouTube video which shows all three should be adjustable with the right set of tools! What am I missing?
Here is the YouTube video for reference:

I've never actually seen a car aligned to be entirely in the green like that. Usually they just try to get the toe barely in range and then leave everything else whack, In other words, don't mess with it. Also, note that misalignments only cause *uneven* tire wear, so there's nothing to improve if your tires are wearing evenly.

The rears didn't wear evenly, one was slightly worse than the other, the tech did tell/show me, I just don't remember. There were plenty of other side conversations.

You've had the OEM tires on your car for almost 5yrs, and only driven 27.5k miles? Impressive. Your tires have even wear across the tread? Also impressive for almost 5yrs.

If your wheels are aligned, they're aligned. I've had the Quatrac Pros for a year, and they're very good. No issues. Your plan sounds fine.

Yeah, work from home really helped with that regard. Now, things are picking back up. And thank you for the vote of confidence on the Vredesteins.

I recently replaced all four tires on my 2018 LR RWD. Fronts were original MXM4s (just over 5 years old), while the rears were replaced with the same factory MXM4s about 14K miles ago, so in other words, half the life of the fronts. Both rears were replaced around 14K miles on the car; one had a second puncture which was not repairable, while the other was worn down (3-4/32nds from what I remembered). Thread depth last month for all four were 4/32nds and were evenly worn. I never rotated the tires in the 5+ years. The car had almost 28K miles. I've been retired for the last 4 years so that accounts for the low mileage.

When they were replaced with a set of RE980AS+ last month I had an alignment done. Here's the report:

View attachment 984526

Only a couple of parameters were out of range, but both not too much. What continues to amaze me is that 2 sets of rears lasted the same amount of miles as the original front pair. While I admit that I have a heavy right foot at times, I don't leave rubber on ground or chirp the tires. I had thought that the fronts would be the first to go, with my habit of accelerating through corners, but they held out pretty well. We'll see how the Potenzas do....

We're probably on the opposite ends of the country with the same amount of driving history in the the time span of 5 years. My car hit 28k today. Cheers.

I will probably ask the shop I choose for alignment to review that video and check if they are comfortable and capable of performing the procedure as described. The link above allows for adjusting all three parameters (camber, caster & toe) on the front. Without this, they can only adjust toe from the bottom. Only toe is adjustable on the rears. Let me know if I have it wrong.

Thank you for the advice.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Unfortunately @GHammer is correct about camber not being adjustable in practice.
In theory, it is, a little bit. But alignment shops almost never adjust anything more than front toe. You're welcome to try to tell them to RTFM and do their freakin' job, but they won't. They're only charging $170 for the whole service so you can't expect more than 6 minutes of actual labor.
That's why you're so lucky to not need an alignment!

 

[rpiotro]

So my 2018 M3 LR AWD will be 5 years old this November. Recently started hearing weird road noise, which I thought was related to the recent work that they did (rear drive unit failed, they replaced it). I took it back (walk-in), had a tech with me on a test drive in my car, I demonstrated the noise (which was like a helicopter), he thought could be tires, but not sure. I scheduled an appointment for them to look into it further as "rotational groan". On day of appointment, tech (someone else) rode with me again to diagnose. He thought it was tires. They asked me to leave the car to diag further.

Day later, they said I needed new tires at 27.5k miles (I was still on stock 18inch Michelin Primacys), saying my tread was almost gone. The said, the placed loaner wheels (with its own set of tires) on my car and the noise went away. I asked them if they could put my wheels on another Model 3 and see if the noise is still there, but they wouldn't go the distance on that request. They quoted me upwards of $2k to replace tires and performing a wheel alignment. I declined service, I picked up the car and paid a diagnostic fee, which was negligible.

I then did two things:
1. Took the car to Goodyear for the free alignment check (image attached)... They don't think car needs alignment, according to them alignment is spot on, but I think it can still be tweaked further. Tech was fairly knowledgeable and said the wear is mostly due to vehicle weight and the instant torque.
2. Bought a tool to check my tire tread. Fronts at 5/32, Rears are 4/32 and 3/32, and never did rotation, so I do agree tires need changing. Settled on Vredestein Quatrac Pro.

So my question is: Before/After/When having the Vredesteins being put on the tesla 18" aero wheels, should I have the alignment tweaked further. If so, what would I want to tweak to maximize tire life and have even wear (I will be performing rotations every 5~6k miles after the Vredesteins are on). I don't feel the car pulling. I drive with the steering in sport mode, mostly as a hyper-miler with chill-mode accel, but perhaps I don't feel the car pulling even though it may be very slight (not sure). I don't really launch the car, unless I am demoing to someone who hasn't sat in the car, which probably is once in a year (tops).

My goal here is to minimize tire wear and extend tire life, and I bring my car to a relatively slow speed before cornering/turning and consider myself to be a good judge of when to release the accelerator to allow for one-pedal drive (rarely put foot on brakes). Any recommendations/suggestions. Please let me know ? I'm very keen to get the Quatracs on!

Good grief. I don't see how the alignment could possibly any better than that chart you showed. Stop overthinking it and enjoy the car.

 

[joeuser]

The graphics look green. I would do an alignment if it looks red.

So, did the noise go away with the new tires?

Yes, noise is gone!

 

[lynnpt2001]

I have gone through several sets of the Michelins, about 1/2 tread they all got noisy. Not worth the $, many other tires out there that are better and less $
I just installed the Sailun Erange on my 3, they are very very quiet. Not sure about the longevity, noise, etc. but for 140.00 per I was willing to give them a try

 

[ODWms]

Wow! That’s an awesome price. Please, do let us know how they work out.

 

[nate704]

I have gone through several sets of the Michelins, about 1/2 tread they all got noisy. Not worth the $, many other tires out there that are better and less $
I just installed the Sailun Erange on my 3, they are very very quiet. Not sure about the longevity, noise, etc. but for 140.00 per I was willing to give them a try

I will not risk my life for a set of Chinese tires.

 

[DuncanM]

I have gone through several sets of the Michelins, about 1/2 tread they all got noisy. Not worth the $, many other tires out there that are better and less $
I just installed the Sailun Erange on my 3, they are very very quiet. Not sure about the longevity, noise, etc. but for 140.00 per I was willing to give them a try

I'm considering a set of Erange tires. Have you noticed an increase in efficiency?

 

[lynnpt2001]

I will not risk my life for a set of Chinese tires.

I understand your concern, I went through that thought process, but I did discover Sailun tires are highly used on trailers, and they are the 10th largest tire manufacturer. Michelin usually are good tires and I would agree safe tires. Lots of good reviews is what persuaded me to give them a try. Someone has to do it. What do they say, no risk no reward?

 

[lynnpt2001]

I'm considering a set of Erange tires. Have you noticed an increase in efficiency?

 

[lynnpt2001]

I just passed 600 miles so far, they are more efficient, my WHPM going to work has dropped from 254 to 236, same trip same temp and weather, same driving as I am in no traffic in the mornings and using FSD so the car should be near the same in travel. I am watching it closely. I'm still impressed with the lower noise level coming from them at 42PSI, Unless something negative happens I will be installing these on the Plaid MX next summer when it is due for it's first replacement set. I have seen other threads with X's with these tires and they like them also

 

[DuncanM]

I just passed 600 miles so far, they are more efficient, my WHPM going to work has dropped from 254 to 236, same trip same temp and weather, same driving as I am in no traffic in the mornings and using FSD so the car should be near the same in travel. I am watching it closely. I'm still impressed with the lower noise level coming from them at 42PSI, Unless something negative happens I will be installing these on the Plaid MX next summer when it is due for it's first replacement set. I have seen other threads with X's with these tires and they like them also

Wow, so that's a 7% gain in range which in my case would more than offset my battery degradation!

 

[nate704]

Sailun tires are highly used on trailers, and they are the 10th largest tire manufacturer

Trailer and cars are totally different. When tires on trailers blow up, you loose stuff. When tires on cars blow up you loose people. Also, largest manufacture doesn't mean quality.
I will take traction, stability, and reliability over sound and efficiency.