-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Russia/Ukraine conflict
- Thread starter amolina
- Start date
МИД РФ: спутники США могут стать целями удара при их применении в конфликте на Украине
Речь идет о задействовании Западом компонентов гражданской инфраструктуры в космосе, в том числе коммерческой, в вооруженных конфликтах, сообщил заместитель директора департамента по нераспростране...
tass.ru
I highly recommend this extension (local, offline translation service): Firefox Translations – Get this Extension for
Firefox (en-US)"Russian Foreign Ministry: US satellites could become targets of a strike in case of their use in the conflict in Ukraine"
They obviously mean Starlink
Good, please attack an American asset.
He was deliberately vague. He means anything in orbit they might want to have a go at. That could include Starlink, Maxar, Planet Labs, Government/Defence spy satellites, commercial/military communications satellites of all types etc. etc. But it's yet another hollow threat and shows just how desperate they are for some sort of forced negotiation to get them out of the horrible mess Putin has created.МИД РФ: спутники США могут стать целями удара при их применении в конфликте на Украине
Речь идет о задействовании Западом компонентов гражданской инфраструктуры в космосе, в том числе коммерческой, в вооруженных конфликтах, сообщил заместитель директора департамента по нераспростране...
I highly recommend this extension (local, offline translation service): Firefox Translations – Get this Extension for
"Russian Foreign Ministry: US satellites could become targets of a strike in case of their use in the conflict in Ukraine"
They obviously mean Starlink
Russia wants a legally binding agreement all UN nations will sign up to, because then they can go about their illegal activities in space just as they do on earth. They should be thrown out of the UN. All they do is waste everyone's time.
If anyone wants to read what the other nations said about disarmament aspects of outer space, here's a summary of the meeting:
‘We Have Not Passed the Point of No Return’, Disarmament Committee Told, Weighing Chance Outer Space Could Become Next Battlefield | Meetings Coverage and Press Releases
A Damocles sword was hanging over space, threatening to transform the peaceful domain into a theatre of conflict, the First Committee (Disarmament and International Security) was warned today, during its thematic debate.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
Some guys that used to (and still do) fly fast jets for a living here in the US debunked this as being an older video and, more importantly, they carefully examined the ejection sequence frame by frame and concluded the pilot was on a low level training mission and clipped some wires severing the vertical stabilizer about half way up. The violent pitch up just prior to ejection is uncommanded - meaning it was airframe damage related and not pilot induced.
Neat vid but highly likely nothing to do with Ukraine.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
It is amazing how different things can look from a different vantage point. If they ever make the human awareness equivalent of the 360 degree view camera, please sign me up.
Yup. Ghengis Khan was notorious for not respecting property deeds.
I don't think so. The pilot gives a 360° panoramic view after the crash and I can't see any power lines or utility poles. Though I don't see any MANPAD contrails either. Anyone know what he said in Russian?
Last edited:
He was deliberately vague. He means anything in orbit they might want to have a go at. That could include Starlink, Maxar, Planet Labs, Government/Defence spy satellites, commercial/military communications satellites of all types etc. etc. But it's yet another hollow threat and shows just how desperate they are for some sort of forced negotiation to get them out of the horrible mess Putin has created.
Russia wants a legally binding agreement all UN nations will sign up to, because then they can go about their illegal activities in space just as they do on earth. They should be thrown out of the UN. All they do is waste everyone's time.
If anyone wants to read what the other nations said about disarmament aspects of outer space, here's a summary of the meeting:
‘We Have Not Passed the Point of No Return’, Disarmament Committee Told, Weighing Chance Outer Space Could Become Next Battlefield | Meetings Coverage and Press Releases
A Damocles sword was hanging over space, threatening to transform the peaceful domain into a theatre of conflict, the First Committee (Disarmament and International Security) was warned today, during its thematic debate.press.un.org
A large scale attack on satellites could completely shut down space flight until we figure out how to get all the debris out of orbit. There is already a fair bit of debris in orbit and the Space Surveillance Network tracks thousands of bits up there now.
United States Space Surveillance Network - Wikipedia
A few nations have tested satellite killer weapons, including the US. Only a few satellites have been taken out with these tests, but they contributed quite a bit to the problem from just a few kills.
An attack to take out western commercial satellites taking pictures of Russian assets and providing communication for the war would probably create so much debris it can't all be tracked anymore and would mostly end spaceflight for years until a way of cleaning all that debris from orbit reliably was worked out and the debris cleared away.
The satellites they would want to take out would probably be in low Earth orbit and not in geostationary orbit, so a lot of our communication satellites would survive, but we wouldn't be able to get any replacements up there when the ones there now die.
It would mean the end of the ISS . The crew could be stranded if they didn't get out early in the attack before the debris spread much.
Such and attack would fall into a murky area, but it might trigger article 5 of the NATO treaty.
They would have to blow up an awful lot of sats to strand astronauts on the ISS. Space, even in LEO, is pretty darn big.
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Its the debris plume that presents a growing danger over the months and years following the impact until all the debris deorbits. At ~450km -ish altitude of the ISS this could take 5-10 years, while an impact from any tiny fragment could disable the station and end its mission (could also turn it into more debris). This is serious.
Starlink bird's in lower orbital shells are more likely to deorbit earlier, but still pose a 'cascade failure' threat with multiple birds in the same orbital plane (each successive impact makes the subsequent risk greater).
Just look at the deadzone created by the Russian's last irresponsible ASAT mission from early in Nov 2021:
NASA Administrator Statement on Russian ASAT Test | NASA.gov (Nov 15, 2021)
NASA Administrator Statement on Russian ASAT Test - NASA
On Monday Moscow Standard Time, the International Space Station (ISS) Flight Control team was notified of indications of a satellite breakup that may create
www.nasa.gov
Shocking visualisations reveal the huge cloud of space junk created by Russia's anti-satellite test | Daily Mail Online
Its the debris plume that presents a growing danger over the months and years following the impact until all the debris deorbits. At ~450km -ish altitude of the ISS this could take 5-10 years, while an impact from any tiny fragment could disable the station and end its mission (could also turn it into more debris). This is serious.
Starlink bird's in lower orbital shells are more likely to deorbit earlier, but still pose a 'cascade failure' threat with multiple birds in the same orbital plane (each successive impact makes the subsequent risk greater).
Just look at the deadzone created by the Russian's last irresponsible ASAT mission from early in Nov 2021:
NASA Administrator Statement on Russian ASAT Test | NASA.gov (Nov 15, 2021)
NASA Administrator Statement on Russian ASAT Test - NASA
On Monday Moscow Standard Time, the International Space Station (ISS) Flight Control team was notified of indications of a satellite breakup that may create
Shocking visualisations reveal the huge cloud of space junk created by Russia's anti-satellite test | Daily Mail Online
It would be a bummer for sure. We'd have our astronauts abandon the ISS long before they'd be stranded up there, though.
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Your use of understatement is sublime. A properly executed ASAT attack could deny the use of LEO for decades. That means total loss of all LEO resources (c.f. cascade failure above). The U.S. would have to respond militarily against Russia, while they still could. Seriously, this is like losing your eyes, and your airspace. I rate it as a bigger threat than a nuclear exchange. That's only the loss of a few cities. This threat would be the loss of the space age.
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
At what point would you have to bring back recon aircraft like SR71?
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
After the Russians are out of SAMs? Because a Mach 2 80K' non-stealth A/C is a tgt.
Russia strikes Ukrainian infrastructure, says it may destroy Western satellites | Reuters
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/M7W4ZS3E7FKHJOJJZY5SKWGI6Y.jpg)
Russia strikes Ukrainian infrastructure, says it may destroy Western satellites
Ukrainian troops are holding out against repeated attacks by Russian forces in two eastern towns while those at the southern front are poised to battle for the strategic Kherson region, which Russia appears to be reinforcing.
A bigger threat than a nuclear exchange? I don't know about that. I suppose if you think the nuclear exchange could be limited to just a few cities. I could live without GPS, broadband satellite internet, accurate weather forecasting, etc. Not sure I'd enjoy an irradiated planet.
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Again, you seem touchingly naive. You LIVE on an irradiated planet right now. Were you born before Castle Bravo, or after? How about Chernobyl? Here's the list of what we're already living with:
If you're not in the exclusion zone, life afterward goes on. Look at Fuku. Ironically, Japan has now been nuked 3 times. But Japan is still Japan, they even launched a rocket last week.
Denial of LEO access restricts humanity to Earth for a century or longer: No going back to the Moon, No 1st Manned Mars Mission, No Asteroid Mining. This is IF we can remember how to get back to orbit after 100 years without doing so.
Maybe study what you're talking about? This is a big F.N. deal. Russians are playing a dangerous game of brinksmanship. I'd be willing to trade Moscow for a resolution.
If I was King, I'd have every SAT-INT resource scrutinizing Russia's every move 24/7 right now. And if they even twitched at fueling up a rocket with ASAT capability, I'd take them out with 3 wings of B2 Spirits using FAE's. No more lunches, Vlad. Some people only understand a kick in the teeth. Word.
But I also doubt the West has this kind of resolve. Which is exactly what emboldens despots like Putin, and why he still thinks he has a chance in hell. I'd just give him an early access pass for the trip.
I'd say you're the naive one with such a cavalier attitude toward nuclear warfare. I think my meaning of an irradiated planet was understood.
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
I served as a commisioned officer in the Royal Canadian Artillery throughout the 1980s. The FBI conducted a security background check before I took took the U.S. Army nuclear artillery course in 1986. I was my Unit Security Officer at the time.
I am one of a handful of Canadian Army Officers so qualified (the M454 Projectile, Atomic was withdrawn from service after the SALT-2 treaty was ratified). I spent a decade training to fight and survive a nuclear war, and I this can tell you one thing with wide-eyed certainty.
Russians will exploit any perceived weakness. You make the event you are afraid of MORE likely by being afraid of it. That is how the Soviets cowed the Russian people for over 70 years, and why Putin is trying to put the Soviet Union back together now. He is a despot and a bully. I'd take the earliest legal means available to hasten his departure from this earth.
Or perhaps you meant 'cavalry' attitude? Because I'm a dead serious. You, however, still do not appear to have studied the long-term effects of nuclear fallout. Instead, you seem to be reacting out of fear of the unknown. This is what Putin wants and expects. He doesn't care about radiation, or space. He only cares about his own power. He needs to go.
We are in 100% agreement that Putin needs to go. I'm not sure in what scenario you envision a nuclear exchange only destroying a few cities though. I foresee a nuclear exchange likely leading to WW3 and the destruction of the human race. Imo, that would be a bigger problem than a realization of the Kessler Syndrome.
Btw,I was responding to Wdolson's speculation that astronauts might be permanently stranded at the ISS in such an event. I find that quite unlikely.
Similar threads
