BitJam
Active Member
They ended up saying the letter was drafted months ago and released by mistake. Seems plausible.
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Russia/Ukraine conflict
- Thread starter amolina
- Start date
Will be interesting to see how urban warfare is fought in modern times. With drones, IR etc maybe snipers are less effective. And will the Russians who are left behind not consider surrendering rather than taking out a few Ukrainians before they are killed? I could see Ukraine being okay taking out most of the supply troops, the tanks etc and leaving the inside of the city alone for a few weeks. Just dropping a few grenades from drones here and there.
Ok, I am far from a military strategist. No idea what will happen. Just my 2 cents.
The Royal Navy (FAA) was operating the marinised Spitfire ('Seafire') off its carriers alongside Avengers, Fireflies, F4U Corsairs, and Hellcats. So not a great deal different than the USN in terms of aircraft. The RN was capable of conducting out-of-area amphibious landings and did so.; and was scheduled to be part of the landing forces on Japan. RN ships were part of the shore bombardment effort of the Japanese mainland, FAA aircraft conducted attacks over the Japanese mainland, etc. The real limiting factor was the RN's fleet train but that too just about made it work.
(It was actually the RN (FAA) Seafires flying off of RN carriers that provided the beach fighter cover for the landings in Italy, Sicily, North Africa (Torch), and they were again part of the cover for Normandy, and then did the cover for Dragoon (South of France) before heading out east with BPF for Rangoon, Okinawa, Sumatra, Japan, etc).
The British Pacific Fleet at war-end comprised "6 fleet carriers, 4 light carriers, 2 aircraft maintenance carriers and 9 escort carriers, with a total of more than 750 aircraft, 4 battleships, 11 cruisers, 35 destroyers, 14 frigates, 44 smaller warships, 31 submarines, and 54 large vessels in the fleet train." So whilst it was certainly as not as great a Pacific contributor as the USN, it was by no means a token effort. Also the UK's RAF was mobilising its heavy bomber force to head out to the Pacific for the Japanese mainland invasions, and a lot of British / Empire troops were also en route, when the two atomic bombs brought everything to a swift end.
Let's hope there is no further escalation in the nuclear sector in Ukraine - Russia is already committing enough nuclear crimes in that respect with Chernoby and the ZPPN complex.
There was also the invasions on Borneo that the British conducted in the summer.
RN carriers had carrying capacities that were only a little more than the US Independence class light carriers because of the design decision to put the armor deck at the flight deck. That required a heavily reinforced hanger deck and a smaller hanger overall. It did protect RN carriers from kamikazes and the HMS Illustrious took a severe beating in 1941 and survived to fight again.
The Illustrious went to the US for repairs and it impressed the US engineers enough that it influenced the USS Midway class under design at the time. But the Midways ended up being very large carriers which was a benefit as jets came into service. Subsequent designs were even bigger, but the Midway was size constrained by the Panama Canal requirement.
By 1945 Essex class carrier had over 100 aircraft each (they were crowded ships) and the Independence class had 33 aircraft. In June 1945 the US had 20 regular fleet carrier (18 Essex plus the Enterprise and Saratoga), 8 Independence class (1 lost at Leyte), 8 Sangamon class large CVEs (built on tanker hulls) and 32 combat equipped cargo hull CVEs (there were quite a few more CVEs but they were used for aircraft ferries and training).
By December 1945 it was planned there would be 2 Midways ready for battle and another 5 Essex class, plus the first Saipan class light carrier. Plus the invasion force could be covered with land based air from Iwo Jima and Okinawa.
I did discount the RN contribution too much in my earlier statements. They weren't nothing, but were dwarfed by what the USN could bring to the fight.
But the Russians had no hope of making an opposed landing in Japan. Once a beachhead had been established and was stable the US and Commonwealth navies could have brought Soviet forces into those beaches, but they didn't have what was necessary to pull off an amphibious invasion.
BTW all the Kaiser built CVEs which served in both the USN and the RN were built just down the road from me. All traces of the shipyard are gone today, but there is a restaurant on the site with pictures of the shipyard when it was cranking out carriers.
History is written by the victors. As the fog of war and Western guilt continue to clear, a more complete picture of events emerges. My grandfather worked closely with Curtis LeMay at Wright Patterson AFB in Dayton Ohio. LeMay is on record saying that the bombs had nothing to do with the end of the war. I'm not sure that's entirely true, but he was certainly very close to the events. Here's a modern take on the history:
Hiroshima, Then Nagasaki: Why the US Deployed the Second A-Bomb | HISTORY
www-history-com.cdn.ampproject.org
The War Was Won Before Hiroshima—And the Generals Who Dropped the Bomb Knew It
Seventy years after the bombing, will Americans face the brutal truth?www.thenation.com
Perhaps the greatest mind in human history, Albert Einstein, also thought the use of the atomic bombs against Japan was a terrible mistake:
Einstein's pacifist dilemma revealed | Science | The Guardian
<p>Previously unpublished letters from Albert Einstein to a Japanese pen pal show the physicist to be defensive over the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki which became possible through his genius.</p>amp.theguardian.com
In the early days of the Cold War LeMay was the biggest champion of the strategic nuclear bomber fleet in the US. He was a big fan of strategic bombing and always championed them. I could see him covering for his conventional B-29 raids by playing down the nuclear bombings, but on the other hand this would have been at a time when he was a major advocate for B-36s and B-47s carrying nuclear weapons.
When things are quiet, I keep an eye on this daily total
It's been quiet for a week or two with relatively low losses, then a sudden jump. That was the pattern when the Kharkhiv offensive kicked off. The losses on this card were high for a few days before we learned a big offensive had kicked off.
I suspect Jayapal got a call from Biden shortly after than letter went out asking what the hell they were doing. The story right now is that it was written back in June but not released and a staffer released it without the knowledge of any signators. It could all be CYA, but if true it could be a naive staffer who thought they were doing good to bring peace before the election or someone who was trying to sabotage the Democratic brand just before the election.
It's suicide to take tanks into an urban battle. Vehicles in general are vulnerable. That is the realm of unmounted infantry.
The Russians are so demoralized now they might not put up much of a fight if the Ukrainians lay siege to the city and let the defenders rot for a while.
X Fan
Active Member
Left-wing Democrats condemned for offering 'olive branch to Putin' with peace plan
Grouping of congressmen from Joe Biden's party hastily withdraw letter that suggested a rapid deal with Kremlin to horror of leaders in Kyiv
www.telegraph.co.uk
Good to know USA has bi-partisan “support” for Putin.
Unfortunately, both parties have misguided wings re: the conflict.
btw: put me in the camp that the bomb was necessary. My Dad was part of the designated invasion force and was stationed in Japan after the surrender. He firmly believed it was needed to end the war and save a million Allied lives.
This long litany of WWII end nuclear bombs is severely off topic. One reference might be reasonable in current context, but 'dirty bombs' are not anything similar in that their only purpose is spreading radioactivity, which was not understood in 1945. A childhood friend of my parents was a bombardier on Japanese bombing, so I grew up with acute awareness of the issues, made even more poignant as some family members went to Japan and stayed there in the war aftermath, including my favorite cousin. Those memories are also irrelevant to the current issues. Interesting and fascinating, but irrelevant to the current war. Please stop posting about this in this thread. A distinct thread may be appropriate despite lack of relevance to TSLA.
All those things happened 77 years ago.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
That's not at all what the now retracted letter even implied. It was quite explicit in it's support for Ukraine. If you think otherwise I suggest actually reading the letter.
I had posted twice before that the train was moving.It seems there was a locomotive pulling the fuel train on the Kerch bridge. Rather sensibly the crew uncoupled everything that was on fire and got out of there !
Thread by @ChrisO_wiki on Thread Reader App
@ChrisO_wiki: 1/ Did these railway workers save the Kerch railway bridge to Crimea? An interesting account published by the Russian-controlled Crimea Railway company suggests that the damage to the bridge from the a...…threadreaderapp.com
Just sayin'
X Fan
Active Member
I read it....sorry, not an extremist fan.....that Progressive wing is just as loony as the right wing Republicans. Direct talks which in effect bypasses Ukraine is not the right pathway.
"In conclusion, we urge you to make vigorous diplomatic efforts in support of a negotiated settlement and ceasefire, engage in direct talks with Russia, explore prospects for a new European security arrangement acceptable to all parties that will allow for a sovereign and independent Ukraine, and, in coordination with our Ukrainian partners, seek a rapid end to the conflict and reiterate this goal as America’s chief priority."
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I'm not a fan of misrepresenting what is written. That is not the same as bypassing Ukraine in any way and hardly "loony". The entire letter was measured and repeated support for Ukraine:
We agree with the Administration’s perspective that it is not America’s place to pressure
Ukraine’s government regarding sovereign decisions, and with the principle you have enunciated
that there should be “nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine.”
Unidentified drones over Norway’s offshore platforms fuel fears of Russian threat
They suspect it's the Russians as Norway gas production is being used to make up for the cut off of Russian gas.
They suspect it's the Russians as Norway gas production is being used to make up for the cut off of Russian gas.
Fueling fears is the name of that game. Much like when Russia flies their ancient bombers off the coast of Alaska. Having the 101st airborne in Romania is probably giving them fits.
Norway detains 2 Russians for taking photos of army base
Is Putin trying to provoke NATO? Is he really that stupid?
Is Putin trying to provoke NATO? Is he really that stupid?
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
Goes both ways, brother. It’s one great pissing match and no one who can do anything about it seems interested in de-escalating.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
Hey, I've got an idea to get peace. Hows about we give up a little red and a little blue territory here in the US make Putin happy so that he will "give" Crimea back and get out of the rest of Ukraine. That seems fair.
What else can we give Russia to reward this behavior?
Just in case anyone on the internet missed it, that was sarcasm aimed at everyone outside Ukraine that has an opinion on what Ukraine should give Russia while Russians are raping and killing their civilians.
What else can we give Russia to reward this behavior?
Just in case anyone on the internet missed it, that was sarcasm aimed at everyone outside Ukraine that has an opinion on what Ukraine should give Russia while Russians are raping and killing their civilians.
When someone here suggested Russia should keep Crimea because it used to be Russian, I nearly replied “so was Alaska”
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
Probably beyond their time but whoever made that deal (to sell Alaska) must have kicked themselves when massive petroleum reserves were found..
Seward, the American Secretary of State, got taken so badly they called it Seward's Folly. Russia was paid the princely sum of 2 cents an acre, lol.
BitJam
Active Member
Meanwhile the Inuit, Aleut, and other indigenous folks are overheard: (rough translation) “wait, what?”
Left-wing Democrats condemned for offering 'olive branch to Putin' with peace plan
Grouping of congressmen from Joe Biden's party hastily withdraw letter that suggested a rapid deal with Kremlin to horror of leaders in Kyiv
Good to know USA has bi-partisan “support” for Putin.
Unfortunately, both parties have misguided wings re: the conflict.
btw: put me in the camp that the bomb was necessary. My Dad was part of the designated invasion force and was stationed in Japan after the surrender. He firmly believed it was needed to end the war and save a million Allied lives.
Unlike the other side when they started getting push back, the letter was withdrawn.
A follow up story said that the two were released when an investigation found the Russians had no ties to the Russian government. Though elsewhere I have read the Russian Orthodox Church has been buying buildings in Norway that overlook military facilities.
It's likely that some of the paranoia about Russian activity is not actually the Russian government. Russia ia paranoid and wants to know if NATO is getting ready to attack them. If NATO had been weakened in a stupid war like they have, they would consider invading NATO countries so they are probably assuming NATO is doing the same and are checking on NATO to see where readiness stands.
Another strategy is to think surveillance activity is going up to try and get NATO countries to hold back more of their equipment for self defense and not send it to Ukraine.
Russia today has more oil reserves than Alaska by a wide margin. A lot of their reserve is untapped in part because they need western help to develop it.
This is a good analysis too
Thread by @WarintheFuture on Thread Reader App
For most of human history smaller groups have either been prey for larger ones or they have figured out how to be too valuable as independent to be taken over. It's only been since WW II and the enforced borders from the late 1940s that smaller groups have felt safe enough to break away from a larger country.
Scotland is a good example. There has been talk about Scottish independence for a few decades now and it might happen with the next referendum. For most of the history Scotland has been part of the United Kingdom they have run the risk of being gobbled up by another larger power if they weren't under the British umbrella. Now that the risk of invasion by a foreign power is nil it's safe to talk about being an independent nation again.
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