USA DoD says they will conduct a recovery effort to keep out of Russian hands.
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Russia/Ukraine conflict
- Thread starter amolina
- Start date
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
What could go wrong here . . . US boats in the Baltic Sea with Russians swarming everywhere . . . .
I would guess helicopters too, maybe some f35 on air cover
Black Sea
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Correct, thank you.
$5 says the US already has a nuclear sub with recovery capability at or through the Bosporus Straight.
I thought we would have had minesweepers through before the conflicts to keep turkey from shutting them out. But…I don’t think we did
petit_bateau
Active Member
FFS.
It has been repeatedly pointed out on this thread that there is a thing called the Montreux Convention
"Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu announced on 27 February that his government would legally recognise the Russian invasion as a "war", which provides grounds for implementing the convention with respect to military vessels.[7] This blockage of naval vessels also applies to NATO powers who cannot now move their vessels from the Mediterranean to the Black Sea. "
At least this MQ9 loss means that the USA no longer has to worry about tech proliferation etc. So now they can give lots of MQ9 straight to Ukraine.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
FFS.
It has been repeatedly pointed out on this thread that there is a thing called the Montreux Convention
"Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu announced on 27 February that his government would legally recognise the Russian invasion as a "war", which provides grounds for implementing the convention with respect to military vessels.[7] This blockage of naval vessels also applies to NATO powers who cannot now move their vessels from the Mediterranean to the Black Sea. "
At least this MQ9 loss means that the USA no longer has to worry about tech proliferation etc. So now they can give lots of MQ9 straight to Ukraine.
Taking a F-ing chill pill. Yes, I will reply to you in kind when you use something FFS.
If the US says they are doing a recovery operation, you can bet it's going to happen. A sub with a DSRV attached is the easiest way, and don't be surprised if they can transit the Bosporus without being detected.
If that is out of the question, Turkey is a NATO member, and you can bet Uncle Sam will lean on them HARD to use airfields to recover that drone.
Remember the F35 that went down in the South China Sea (China's back yard)? The ONLY way the Russians get that drone is to get there first. Period.
petit_bateau
Active Member
This has been pointed out repeatedly.
You can try using aviation assets, but you'll not be going in the way you think. The easiest way is floating or sinking stuff from a Romanian port/airfield. And that is why stuff is designed to be flown in.
The Montreux Convention gets taken very seriously. Even the US has to comply, despite not signing it nor even turning up to the negotiations back in the day. And unless the USA declares war on Turkey that's how it will be.
If the US wants its MQ9 back then the indications are it will need to hurry, though evidence is somewhat sketchy.
I'm more interested in what the sensor package was on the MQ9, as they carry some interesting podded sensors. I'm very sure that everyone wants a peek at those.
petit_bateau
Active Member
Finland ....
www.theguardian.com
Turkey has made its mind up about our Nato membership, says Finland
Swedish prime minister also said he hopes Sweden’s accession will be ratified by Ankara after May elections
www.theguardian.com
Israel recently approved the export licenses for the possible sale of anti-drone jamming systems that could help Ukraine counter Iranian drones used by Russia during the war, three Israeli and Ukrainian officials said.
Israel for 1st time since war began OKs export licenses for anti-drone systems for Ukraine
Point taken
FFS.
It has been repeatedly pointed out on this thread that there is a thing called the Montreux Convention
"Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu announced on 27 February that his government would legally recognise the Russian invasion as a "war", which provides grounds for implementing the convention with respect to military vessels.[7] This blockage of naval vessels also applies to NATO powers who cannot now move their vessels from the Mediterranean to the Black Sea. "
At least this MQ9 loss means that the USA no longer has to worry about tech proliferation etc. So now they can give lots of MQ9 straight to Ukraine.
The US could contract with a civilian salvage ship to sail into the Black Sea. US military personnel could meet the ship once it's in the sea and the US military people carry out the actual salvage. Then before returning to the Mediterranean all military personnel leave the ship along with all military equipment. If they can't fly everything off the ship, it can be done with locally hired ships from Romania.
If the US needs to encourage the Turks to only look at this as a civilian operation with regards the Montreaux Convention, they could offer the Turks some sweet deals on military hardware or some other perks. Erdogan is probably getting a bit nervous about his money coming from Russia drying up, increased aid from the US would help fill the gap. Turkey is also trying to recover from the earthquakes.
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
"Senators from both parties press Austin on sending F-16s to Ukraine
By CONNOR O’BRIEN03/14/2023 06:24 PM EDT
A group of senators from both parties is pressing the Pentagon for more information on what it would take to send F-16 jets to Ukraine.
The fresh push came in a letter Tuesday to Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin from eight senators, and obtained by POLITICO, as top administration officials from President Joe Biden on down have poured cold water on bipartisan calls to send U.S.-made fighters into the fight for now.
The conflict between Russia and Ukraine is “now at a critical juncture,” the senators wrote, arguing F-16 fighters could give Kyiv an edge as Moscow’s full-tilt invasion enters a second year. [..."
Senators from both parties press Austin on sending F-16s to Ukraine
Eight senators argue that modern fighters "could prove to be a game changer on the battlefield."
www.politico.com
The site is within range of Ukrainian shore based anti-shipping missiles. The Russians are going to be very cautious about poking around the crash site.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Russian naval ships may have already reached the wreckage area, although that doesn't necessarily mean they could recover it (given where it went down supposedly is a mile deep):
"The Russians have reached the MQ-9 crash site in the Black Sea, according to two US officials, as the Kremlin promises to attempt to recover the US surveillance drone.
Russia’s Navy has several ships in the Black Sea, including ships based in Crimean ports, which would have placed them in an advantageous position to attempt to recover the US MQ-9 Reaper drone after its encounter with Russian fighter jets on Tuesday.
The drone came down in international waters approximately 70 miles southwest of Crimea, one of the officials said. It is unclear if Russia was able to recover any of the wreckage from the drone when they arrived at the crash site.
..."
Russian forces have reached the MQ-9 crash site, US officials say
"The Russians have reached the MQ-9 crash site in the Black Sea, according to two US officials, as the Kremlin promises to attempt to recover the US surveillance drone.
Russia’s Navy has several ships in the Black Sea, including ships based in Crimean ports, which would have placed them in an advantageous position to attempt to recover the US MQ-9 Reaper drone after its encounter with Russian fighter jets on Tuesday.
The drone came down in international waters approximately 70 miles southwest of Crimea, one of the officials said. It is unclear if Russia was able to recover any of the wreckage from the drone when they arrived at the crash site.
..."
Russian forces have reached the MQ-9 crash site, US officials say
That sounds like the crash site is closer to Crimea than the original estimates I saw.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
From Kirby's statement it seems the US is hopeful that whatever that is floating that they can easily recover is just some flight control surfaces (which are of limited intel value) and most if not all of the payload has sunk. It seems these drones don't have any physical self destruct mechanism (other than a zero wipe of the software), so probably no controlled way to ensure the payload can be destroyed or at least separate from the flight control surfaces.
They may have nosedived the drone at high speed into the water to inflict maximum impact damage.
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
The Montreux Convention, agreed to in 1936, prohibits submarines from passing through the Bosporus Strait, which connects the Black Sea to the Mediterranean.
Russian Black Sea Sub Deployments to Mediterranean Could Violate Treaty
news.usni.org › 2020/07/08 › russian-black-sea-sub-deployments-to-medit...
