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S 75D and X 75D dropped from Tesla lineup, Model 3 "competition"?
- Thread starter StellarRat
- Start date
WileyTheMan
Peanut Gallery Member
I'm sure its a combination of less demand for the 75kWh models, and a tighter focus on who they are aiming the S/X at.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
My expectation is similar to what wenkan said... new batteries for S/X using 2170 cells so maybe 100/125 replaces 75/100... this allows all S/X vehicles to have as good or better range than the cheaper 3s, and possibly enables a track mode on the S/X too... where it's tricky is how close the P125D gets to the roadster
I agree. Tesla wants to draw a line between high end luxury (S,X) and near luxury (M3). Pretty soon we'll have the Y and then a pickup. I'm curious about how much the Y will cost. My guess is that it will about the same as the M3.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I would expect Y to be to 3 as X is to S- roughly 5k more for otherwise comparable configs.
woodisgood
Optimustic Pessimist
As of right now, a lot of buyers who might get the S 75D might choose the P3D, if they can live with the space compromises.
I suspect that once the Y comes out, many who'd be looking at the X 75D might choose the Performance Y, again, if they can live with the space compromises.
I suspect that once the Y comes out, many who'd be looking at the X 75D might choose the Performance Y, again, if they can live with the space compromises.
I'm hoping we get a Model Y preview aka Musk's dog and pony show soon. I really want to see what they've got up their sleeves. Also, my brother barely fits in a Model 3, so a Y might be a better solution for him. After riding in my 3 for the first time last weekend I think he's probably going to buy a Tesla of some kind.
woodisgood
Optimustic Pessimist
I'm excited. One thing that would be disappointing is if it ends up too small, more like a 3 wagon than a SUV. While the small SUV segment is really hot (e.g. X3), I feel like they'd be leaving the midsize segment untapped (e.g. people who buy X5, MDX, RX450, etc.) if they simply expected to upsell those buyers to a 100K Model X.
I expect to see Tesla upgrade Model S & X with Model 3 batteries & motor, and come out with a spec that blows competition out of the water in terms of range and performance. We know some new EV's are coming out in a year or two, they aren't shy to state they're looking to compete directly with Tesla. Unfortunately for them, they're building vehicles that barely match the specs of Tesla lineup today. An upgrade in range and performance from Tesla to their top of the line cars will just make competition bang their heads against their desk.
One thing that makes Model 3 so attractive right now is its efficiency and range. I chuckle a bit when reading about complaints others have about Model 3's range. It's like, you don't know range anxiety until you've driven other EV's. I think Tesla wants to make their flagship models better and more attractive.
Model Y will be amazing. They'll be ideal for people who want a bit more room and a hatchback. And Americans right now seem to need both heh.
One thing that makes Model 3 so attractive right now is its efficiency and range. I chuckle a bit when reading about complaints others have about Model 3's range. It's like, you don't know range anxiety until you've driven other EV's. I think Tesla wants to make their flagship models better and more attractive.
Model Y will be amazing. They'll be ideal for people who want a bit more room and a hatchback. And Americans right now seem to need both heh.
woodisgood
Optimustic Pessimist
The ones that are close are about 40% above the Model 3's price and I bet they're losing money on them to boot. The battery factory is Tesla's secret weapon as far as specs go.
Elon tweeted that Tesla will be changing S/X battery designations to match the Model 3 “Long Range” concept, without specifying numerical capacities.
I have no expectation that either the S or X will get a “Track Mode”. Seems pointless in such large heavy cars, and unlikely to produce many additional sales.
I doubt that very many potential S 75D buyers are deciding to buy a Model 3 Performance instead. Those are very different cars. The S 75D offers a lot of luxury features that the 3 does not have, as well as more seating capacity and a lot more cargo capacity, with a 259 EPA rating. In practical terms, that’s not a lot less than the 310 the Model 3 offers, and the 0-60 time difference is just 0.9 seconds (S 75D does it in 4.2 secs; pretty damn quick).
I think this announcement that the 75D model is going away is a prelude to converting S/X packs to the 2170 cell type which will significantly increase range for both the base S/X and the “Long Range” option to something like 300/380 EPA ratings, further differentiating the S/X from the 3. A smart marketing move.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Ok.
That doesn't really seem related though- as the 3 has more than 1 battery size, so you wouldn't need to eliminate a second battery size in the S/X to get to that.
A ton of S/X owners have complained over the years about wanting the things track mode offers. And if they're going to 2170 cells and similar cooling tech to the 3 it'd be pretty trivial for Tesla to offer it- and make it exclusive to the P versions as an added selling point. Bonus points if they switch at least the rear to a perm magnet motor like the 3 as well... (maybe even switch both for higher efficiency)
I grant there's not a huge # of P buyers for S/X, but those that exist are massively profitable for Tesla so anything that gets more of them is good for Tesla.
Such as.... ?
Off hand I can think of-
XM radio, self-opening trunk, and self-presenting door handles... (I suppose SAS can be considered a lux feature- it's sure not a performance one.... but that's supposedly out on the 3 here this year too).
I mean, XM and fancy door handles are nice, but they're not really what I'd call "a lot of luxury features"
If 259 vs ~310 wasn't "a lot" of difference why would anyone have ever bought the non-P S100? It's got all the same "luxury" features, costs a lot more, and just gets you "not a lot" of range right?
Same question
(and honestly, 0.9 seconds is kind of a lifetime in 0-60 terms for performance)... you just told us there's already huge differences between 3 and S/X and they probably don't share many buyers, and the range difference isn't a big deal... then come back and say range is a smart way to differentiate between 3 and S/X....?
JG T3SLA
Member
If S had all the new tech that’s in 3 when I bought my performance 3, I would have probably of gone that way. Tesla does definitely need to better differentiate between the two. Right now it’s basically just size. For the higher price of S, consumers should be getting some additional perks.
sreams
Member
The S does not have any more seating capacity than a 3. Both seat 5. The rear jump seats are discontinued.
woodisgood
Optimustic Pessimist
They'll do what gets them the most electrification the fastest, and that's making the cars they are going to sell the most of be the best damn cars they can possibly be [without going out of business]. Product differentiation seems like a distraction unless it's directly accomplishing that goal, and I think it's something legacy automakers are more likely to worry about. And if Tesla does use [lazy] product differentiation to withhold features that they could feasibly put in lower-priced cars, they're only hurting their own core mission.
The 100K segment is an important part of Tesla's history, but I wonder how much of a priority for their future. Certainly well-heeled buyers add desirability to the brand overall but as a large proportion of electrification? Not so much.
