S85 Owners: Do you wish you had bought S60 instead

[weccman]

I have a P85, and I have never wished I had a 60. I'm on a road trip now from California to Wisconsin and back, and today I drove through South Dakota in cold and very windy weather. Even starting from Mitchell with 219 rated miles, I pulled into Murdo (138 miles away) with only 5 left. I had no range anxiety because I was closely monitoring how fast my energy was going down and took care to slow down and turn off the heater if it seemed to be going down too fast, but I still needed it all to get into the supercharger at Murdo. I think it would be very frustrating to be trying to use the supercharger network with a 60.

 

[nirvanaman]

9 months in with the 60 here. I could not justify the extra spend on an already spendy ride. In the time I have owned it, there are 2 trips where it would have been nice to have it, but not necessary, and in reality it wouldn't have changed anything in terms of the trip dynamics, maybe would have given slightly more comfort? Car was already at $83,000 ($73,000 after credits). There are other fantastic cars in this range, and to go above it would have started feeling silly to me personally (was between the S and the Audi S6). And those 2 road trips would have been totally no sweat had the Oxnard and San Juan Cap superchargers been open. Caveats, I have 4 other cars and 2 motorcycles so I could totally take something else if I needed to (though I just drive those for fun mostly). I also live in SoCal so perfect temps and plenty of superchargers (at least in theory). Though it would be nice in theory to have that extra range, I just still can't personally justify pushing that price into the 90s (80s) in my head. YMMV, pun intended.

 

[Username]

I wish I could have bought the S125 kw battery. Maybe in 2017!
Without a Supercharger network in Canada, the 60 kw battery car is certainly a hindrance.
It's bad enough stopping for a 5 hour lunch in Kingston, On as I drive to Montreal from Toronto.
A 60 kw battery under these conditions would not cut it.
Any extensive driving in Canada requires the S85.

 

[scott jones]

I HOPE YOU ARE ALL HAPPY! :biggrin: After reading so many posts of 60 v 85, I've changed my order AFTER getting the confirmation. My Rep thinks it's doable. I shall find out soon.
He thinks it's just a matter of changing the VIN and a few other things. He wrote me a note saying, "We want you to have the car you want," etc etc. Very nice guy (also named Scott from Columbus Ohio). My profile still says, "Sourcing Parts," so it's not like they're building it yet. I've heard, most of that happens in the last week or so. The finish date of car is May 19th... delivery around June first. So, I'm hoping I'll get the upgrade, otherwise I was considering starting all over again. I know a lot of people got the S60, and I did, but for resale and peace of mind, I changed.

If you're curious, the reason I changed was due to the better battery warranty, the included charging ability away from home, and MOST important: The extended driving.
I live in Indianapolis, and may want to visit friends in Fort Wayne or Cincy. Both are about 110 miles away. In a 60, the round trip would mean definitely having to charge at their homes/apt when I arrived. With the 85, I won't necessarily have to. I was hoping to save $10,000, but I'm getting the $2,000 charging ability, added miles and i think??? better tires? Great forum, FYI. And great car! Scott

 

[Chipper]

Before it's too late you now have to start thinking of adding the P to the 85. Come to the dark side...don't be afraid...you KNOW you want it...

 

[castor]

A 60kWh may not make it between superchargers depending of the wheatear conditions even driving slow and in range mode you may end up in a flat bed, "personal experience", I upgraded my battery to a 85kWh after that experience, and if you want to know where.

Grants Pass to Mount Shasta, CA, left with 92% range, ran out of charge 7 miles before reach Mt. Shasta
First 80 miles between 60-70mph, last 30 miles driving at 30-35mph, temperature 19F

Get a 85kWh if are thinking to make trips between superchargers.

 

[brianman]

Before it's too late you now have to start thinking of adding the P to the 85. Come to the dark side...don't be afraid...you KNOW you want it...

Tex, is that you?

 

[amitb00]

Scott: you are like me. I also changed my battery to 85 after confirming after hearing so much here and am very happy with change.

 

[Chipper]

Tex, is that you?

Nope, it's just plain ole Chipper. I wonder when Tex will return. I have seen his posts a couple of times but I think he was going to be out of country for many months. Kinda miss his not-so-gentle persuasive tactics. I wonder how many +'s he sold???

 

[brianman]

I wonder how many +'s he sold???

85+?

 

[RobsJester]

60 is fine

If you're not going with The Performance-85, the 60kw is fine for anyone that has less than a 170mile/day commute.

Look, a 60kw already has made it between superchargers - coast-to-coast (and back again)
Coast to Coast in a 60 kWh Model S | Tesla Motors

A year ago, my fiancé and I drove our 60kw 15,000miles - the circumference of the US - from LA to Key West > North to Quebec City > West to Blaine, WA > South to San Diego - when there were only hand-full of superchargers:
Cross-Country Trip | Tesla Motors
We never ran out of charge, seriously, you can always find charging. Would an extra 50 miles of range come in handy - sure, but was it necessary on either trip - nope.

Regardless of which battery you choose, you'll love your Tesla!

 

[brianman]

Robs - You must be the guy I met at Hawthorne last year (in July)!

 

[DriverOne]

> Look, a 60kw already has made it between superchargers - coast-to-coast (and back again)
> Coast to Coast in a 60 kWh Model S | Tesla Motors

How does one move to part two of this story?

 

[EdA]

I have a S85 and have never regretted it.
I have done a 1650 mile road trip over 6 days.
Went from just west of Boston to Philly and back on one day (600 miles).
Wish I could have more range

 

[AC1K]

I couldn't "afford" a car more than $40,000 CAD according to conventional financial standards at the time so i got a P85 with all the options , no regrets and im so glad i got the carbon fiber trim, paid off half the car in about 1 year, so i think i'm doing good. Common financial advice doesn't make sense to me at all, they say you should never buy a car that is more than your yearly income.

 

[JohnQ]

If you're not going with The Performance-85, the 60kw is fine for anyone that has less than a 170mile/day commute.

Look, a 60kw already has made it between superchargers - coast-to-coast (and back again)
Coast to Coast in a 60 kWh Model S | Tesla Motors

A year ago, my fiancé and I drove our 60kw 15,000miles - the circumference of the US - from LA to Key West > North to Quebec City > West to Blaine, WA > South to San Diego - when there were only hand-full of superchargers:
Cross-Country Trip | Tesla Motors
We never ran out of charge, seriously, you can always find charging. Would an extra 50 miles of range come in handy - sure, but was it necessary on either trip - nope.

Regardless of which battery you choose, you'll love your Tesla!

I don't have the long distance cred that @RobsJester has but think about distances in windy/rainy/cold conditions. Model S can make any trip with current charging infrastructure--there are J1772 chargers, RV parks, welding plugs and good old 110V/15A outlets pretty much everywhere. It's just a question of how much time you want to spend charging.

 

[RobsJester]

60 vs 85

Robs - You must be the guy I met at Hawthorne last year (in July)!

Most likely, I returned from the trip July 1st and I live very close to the Hawthorne SC.

>How does one move to part two of this story?

I'm not sure, but I do know that Sam made it: LA>Virginia and back in his 60kw.
I met him during the Tesla scavenger hunt in Los Angeles, man, that dude's amped!

Model S can make any trip with current charging infrastructure--there are J1772 chargers, RV parks, welding plugs and good old 110V/15A outlets pretty much everywhere. It's just a question of how much time you want to spend charging.

Exactly. Do I think paying an additional $8k over a 60kw (w/ $2k SC enabled) makes intuitive sense, yup I do, but I suspect 90% of Model S owners will never actually "need" the additional range. If coming up with the $8k is a deal breaker, or even a stretch and you'd rather put it towards options that you'll use every day Tech Package/Leather/Sun Roof - you'll be fine in a 60kw.

If you were buying an ICE car, say an Audi A7, and they offered an option to pay $8k for a 22 gallon gas tank rather than the standard 16gal tank, would you buck up for it? If you live in the desert or Texas where a 100mile drive each way is part of a regular commute, then no question, you'd buy it, similarly, if you know you need the range, purchase the 85kw, but if you live in Santa Monica and you're plan is to use the car to pickup the kids and run errands, I'd wager you'd never use the extra 50miles - even on an annual trip up the coast to Santa Barbara or SanFran, you'll make the superchargers - keep the $8k and in my opinion, buy some TSLA stock.

The 60MS can (and has) made it cross-country exclusively using superchargers, this will only get easier in the future. Oh, you can still do 70mph+ most of the way, I'd wager that there are many more 120mile sections where can drive full-dusche and break triple-digits, than 170-200mile stretches where you'd need to drive 55mph. You'll learn your car and when to back-off the speed during the long stretches or when heading into the Rocky's.

On my trip without superchargers, I had the cruise around 62mph and I'd consistently average 225miles and even squeezed 256miles out of a charge - no doubt a 60kw can make any supercharge route with ease if you take it easy during the longer stretches. Absolutely worst case, you find yourself on a cross-country trip and can't quite make the next supercharger, it's not an exaggeration to say there are campsites at practically every other exit in America - so during that one hour you're stuck charging during the lifetime you own a 60kw, you could get angry, or you can think of all the other toys you bought with that $8,000 dollars.
- Robs

 

[liuping]

you can think of all the other toys you bought with that $8,000 dollars.

Or you could spend the $8000 now, get the better tires, a better battery warranty, drive 75+mph like all the other cars on the road, and enjoy your trips.

And after 10 years, when you're getting around 212 miles range*, you can slow down a little and still make the trip, while the 60kWh cars are getting just 166 miles range or less** and having to drive 45mph or stop at campgrounds for hours at a time, wishing the bought a 85kWh battery.


*assuming 20% loss in range over 10 years
**60kWh will likely degrade more then 85's, due to more frequent min/max charging they needed to travel

 

[castor]

I love the car however people keep saying you can go anywhere between superchargers, even when that's true sometimes is good to talk about the whole experience other than if you make it or no, since the people interested can take a better decisions knowing the whole experience.

If you can make it or not is just one part of the equation.

60kWh won't make it between Grant Pass and Mt. Shasta superchargers on a very cold day, unless the car is charged at 100%, the road is uphill and the car will give you only about the 58% from the rated range and driving only at 60-65mph average and mostly without heater.

The charge curve is logarithmic, to charge between 80% to 100% takes about 40 minutes, my 60kWh was limited to charge to 100kW so could not even take full advantage of the 120kW chargers, on a 85kWh you need to charge only about 80-85% and make it ok between superchargers, on a 60kWh you need to charge at least 90%, again the last 20% take a lot of time to charge.

I make a trip every year non-stop from North Washington to South California on Thanksgiving, this trip usually takes 18hs, however with my Model S 60kWh I planned an extra 7-8hs for stopping on Super Chargers.

The reality is that the trip took 38hs instead, 12hs more than I had planned, the main reason is the need to charge at least 90% or above to make sure there is enough range to make it between superchargers since people usually don't know the terrain topology, because ended on a flatbed on Mt. Shasta even having 70 extra miles to spare and running out of charge, I didn't want to happen again, so I ended charging to at 100% on every supercharger to reach CA, once the charge hits the top of the charge curve it will take much longer to charge the last 20%

You can't count only how many miles to destination, terrain topology makes a huge different on the range.

On a 85kWh is not required to charge above 90% since at 90% usually have at least 80% extra range to spare to accommodate for the weather and terrain, the charging time on every supercharger is reduced by at least 40 minutes between charging 60kWh at 100% and charging a 85kWh to 80%

So 60kWh is a phenomenal car and personally I think is a better choice only if you are not planning making long trips, however if you are planning to make long trips and willing to pay 2K extra for the supercharger option then I would strongly recommend put 8K more and avoid the range anxiety and to know if you are going to make it or not, on a 60kWh it force to overcharge and spend a lot of extra time sitting on the superchargers.

Definitely Tesla navigation system should contemplate the terrain topology, so even when tell you how many miles to destination, it should compute how much charge % is really needed.

When I came back from Mt Shasta to Grant Pass the other way around, I charged to 90% and I think only consumed about 35% of the charge, with terrain topology analysis it should tell for example that require about 95% one way (200 miles) and 40% (83 miles) the other way.

 

[wndrful]

Taking on A7 gas tank analogy. The reason people don't pay premium for bigger gas tank is that there are gas stations almost around the block.
Similarly, I am putting my money on future that around the time Tesla hits 200K+ cars there would be a third party supercharger every 50 miles.
After that a "bigger gas tank" would be a fairly moot point. So think of buying a car for the next four years of usage and charging scenarios. Not for 8-10 years.