Say no to Saudi Arabia

[SwedishAdvocate]

You guys can criticize it all you want.
Want to do something about it? Buy more shares, or convince another large investor to invest the money to help Tesla go private.

The world isn't as easy as "I'm not going to have anything to do with any country because I don't like their actions". Not in a financial way with global economics. /...

Yeah!

Doesn't that say something about the current economic system?

Perhaps THE CROWN JEWEL of corporations on the planet today apparently may have to turn to Saudi for a move like this (allegedly)...

.../ Besides, I don't think Tesla could stop them from a hostile takeover if SA really put its mind to it, and was patient (as it would take some time).

Aren't there laws that would prevent that from happening? Isn't the largest share a Saudi entity could own in Tesla capped at 15%? (Just started googling, but haven't found a good source yet...)

 

[alloverx]

Found this juicy thread by chance. The classic morality vs dollars thread.
As for Elon not caring about money, at a certain point why would he?
Every country has PROs and CONs. Obviously some are much worse than others but some are simply perspective.

 

[Barklikeadog]

Yeah!

Doesn't that say something about the current economic system?

Perhaps THE CROWN JEWEL of corporations on the planet today apparently may have to turn to Saudi for a move like this (allegedly)...
Aren't there laws that would prevent that from happening? Isn't the largest share a Saudi entity could own in Tesla capped at 15%? (Just started googling, but haven't found a good source yet...)

No worries. If this deal falls through, erdogan or maduro might want to seal the deal with Elon. 50 quadrillion Bolivars? What a steal

 

[buttershrimp]

I knew it! He fooled us again, Elon "QAnon" Musk! Dominating the world with Saudi Money to do a 9/11 on Mars..... I frickin' knew it! That's it, I'm cancelling my order....

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

No worries. If this deal falls through, erdogan or maduro might want to seal the deal with Elon. 50 quadrillion Bolivars? What a steal

Needn't worry about Maduro. Trump will veto that one.

 

[Adm]

You cannot compare anything the US does with what KSA does in a day, week, or year. You just don't understand the malevolence that is at the heart of the rulers of KSA.

That may be your view from your white picked fenced house in the suburbs. There is a whole other world outside of suburbia.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

You cannot compare anything the US does with what KSA does in a day, week, or year. You just don't understand the malevolence that is at the heart of the rulers of KSA.

That may be your view from your white picked fenced house in the suburbs. There is a whole other world outside of suburbia.

The US is a democracy!!! From the Midterm elections later this year, the US could be a very different country than it is today!...

Overview:
Saudi Arabia’s absolute monarchy restricts almost all political rights and civil liberties. No officials at the national level are elected. The regime relies on extensive surveillance, the criminalization of dissent, appeals to sectarianism, and public spending supported by oil revenues to maintain power. Women and religious minorities face extensive discrimination in law and in practice. Working conditions for the large expatriate labor force are often exploitative. [My bold and underline.]

Source: Saudi Arabia | Freedomhouse.org

Source: Saudi Arabia | Freedomhouse.org

Source: United States | Freedomhouse.org

 

[Vitold]

Musk said that he does not want any one party to have control over company. Also, US regulations make it hard (except for unpredictable executive branch that sold 1bn of arms to Saudis) for foreign investors to obtain controlling stake. Therefore talking about Saudis taking over is far fetched.

 

[1208]

1. Don’t make the racist mistake of lumping all Saudi Arabians, their government, and their businesses together. That’s like saying foreign companies shouldn’t do business in the USA because of the current administration and policies.
2. Any business/investment dealings between Tesla and Saudi Arabia would be a drop in the bucket compared to the overall business/investment dealings between USA/North America/“The West” and Saudia Arabia. Where’s the outrage with that?
3. What about China? Not the best human rights record there either yet we’re still doing business with them, and using our influence to improve things. Where’s the outrage over Gigafactory 3 in Shanghai?

This^^

plus I bet the OP is using electronics made in China.

 

[Barklikeadog]

The US is a representative democracy!!! From the Midterm elections later this year, the US could be a very different country than it is today!...

Fixed.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

...as all democracies are. Doesn't everyone know that?

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

Some are however more representative than others... In Sweden for example, if one party would get a majority of all votes, that party would win that election. In the US however, that didn't happen in 2000 or 2016...

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

1. Don’t make the racist mistake of lumping all Saudi Arabians, their government, and their businesses together. That’s like saying foreign companies shouldn’t do business in the USA because of the current administration and policies.
2. Any business/investment dealings between Tesla and Saudi Arabia would be a drop in the bucket compared to the overall business/investment dealings between USA/North America/“The West” and Saudia Arabia. Where’s the outrage with that?
3. What about China? Not the best human rights record there either yet we’re still doing business with them, and using our influence to improve things. Where’s the outrage over Gigafactory 3 in Shanghai?

This^^

plus I bet the OP is using electronics made in China.

[A] 1. Don’t make the racist mistake of lumping all Saudi Arabians, their government, and their businesses together. [B] That’s like saying foreign companies shouldn’t do business in the USA because of the current administration and policies. [My A and B.]

A: Who in this thread has made a "racist mistake"? Calling anything in this thread "racist" is just completely incorrect!
B: Se post #127 upthread. The comparison is so irrelevant it's unbelievable!

2. Any business/investment dealings between Tesla and Saudi Arabia would be a drop in the bucket compared to the overall business/investment dealings between USA/North America/“The West” and Saudia Arabia. Where’s the outrage with that?

This is about Saudi ownership of Tesla. Everything you are talking about is not.

3. What about China? Not the best human rights record there either yet we’re still doing business with them, and using our influence to improve things. Where’s the outrage over Gigafactory 3 in Shanghai?

Because there is no ownership of Tesla.

 

[Cloxxki]

I've been heavily invested in Elon for years. Financially too, but what I mean here is emotionally. Tesla and other ventures, The whole mission. It's been the one bright spot in this otherwise pretty dismal world. It's been my main passion. I'm to take delivery soon, finally, and I don't even feel like it any more.

What do we have here? Norway? No, they can't. Page? No, not interested I guess. Buffet? No. Anyone normal and decent? No. We have the Kingdom of Horrors.

Beheadings,. Cutting off hands. Public executions for fun. They even crucified a man several days ago. Beheaded him and crucified him.

Death penalty to those who try to leave Islam. Lashings for women who were raped.

9/11.

It's an evil country.

I feel like the sun has gone out.

Don't forget the ongoing genocide on Yemen. Not a sexy subject, even Gaza gets more press. But it's real and likely the greatest injustice the West even looked away from. By the time most of your family members are aware, there will be no Yemen born human left living in the country. It's a very ambitious genocide.

But let's not look away from who keeps arming Saudi Arabia. Any guesses who made the bombs used to decimate the defenseless population of an up till recently wonderfully culturally rich nation? Really? OK, it's USA and UK not only supplying arms but also offering instructions to pilots on how to bomb most efficiently. Can't waste any bombs, the environment and all... Let's talk about the holocaust and Trump again, because that's being shoved under the carpet all the time...

 

[Barklikeadog]

Some are however more representative than others... In Sweden for example, if one party would get a majority of all votes, that party would win that election. In the US however, that didn't happen in 2000 or 2016...

Ahh I just wish the schools would pound this into kids heads. Much like free speech, we don't have free speech, there are limits. We don't have a free market economy, we have a mixed market economy. When we go to the ballot box, 90% of what we vote on are representatives. Governor? yep. Senator? yep. Representatives? Yep. local council? yep... 10 other people... yep. Representative. Oh wait, here is state income tax question... and a 1 mill local school proposal. Democracy!!!

 

[Homer's Dad]

You guys know what? Don't sweat the small stuff. Let's approach this issue from a first principles perspective - the Elon Musk angle:
The climate is taking serious damage from our use of fossil fuels. Because it will take some more decades of even centuries for humanity to become multi planetary (working on that too with SpaceX) it's really important that we switch to sustainable transportation (Tesla) and energy generation (Tesla Energy) on Earth so we survive the interim period and don't destabilize our civilization more than necessary, as this will slow down progress on the Big Goal: becoming a multi planetary species.

Now, does anyone really think it matters where the money comes from for Elon? I mean for him money is just a means to an end. He cares not about accumulating wealth but only about money as a tool to make progress. Of course Elon has little regard for backwards Arabian wahabbi tribal Muslims. Just as he has little regard for greedy Wall Street bankers, for crazy Christian Republicans, for Democrat corrupt politicians etc. In the future he envisions there's no room for religious bickering, for nations playing zero sum political games, for war, for short-sighted greed, for FUD-slinging etc etc etc.

A hundred years from now who's going to remember where the money came from? Who's going to remember the last name of the warlord who happened to be in control of Riyadh when the oil was found? Who going to remember Trump's antics? Who had the biggest fortune in 2018? Sure, it will be there on the history books, but it won't be important. Just as it seems to us now just a detail in a history book who happened to sit on the English throne in 1745, or what flag was on the flag pole in Constantinople in 1857, or how many people were killed in the Russo-Japanese war of 1905 and what territory was claimed and lost in that war. But a hundred years from now every child will still learn about Newton, Einstein, Neil Armstrong, and most definitely about Elon Musk. And hopefully they will do this neither as Muslims, Christians or atheist nor as Americans, Germans or Saudis but rather as humans who live in a global, multi planetary, well coordinated, peaceful, rational and compassionate civilization without nation states, without economic incentives for war, perverse incentives, manipulation of others, oppression, destructive behavior toward fellow humans or nature for short term economic gain or for power.

Don't get hung up on the insignificant details. Let the man do his thing.

 

[commasign]

Who in this thread has made a "racist mistake"? Calling anything in this thread "racist" is just completely incorrect!

Anytime the word “they” is invoked to describe an entire population of people, that is racism. In this thread, there’s a lot of “they” being thrown around. I totally get that much of this is semantics but I think words are important and there are a lot of stupid people in the world who will not understand the difference between all the different “they”s being referenced in discussions like this. Are we talking about the sovereign wealth fund? The managers of the fund? The government? Which part? Which leaders? The military? Which generals? The laws? The foreign policy? The non-governmental entrepreneurs/investors? The ones who got their money from oil? The ones who got their money from renewable energy? The ones that run a neighborhood convenience store? Random Joe or Jane? I’m not saying there’s not an issue with Saudi Arabian laws or foreign policy that needs to be discussed. But I think it’s dumb to say things like “I don’t want those Saudi’s to buy Tesla because they chop off people’s hands over there.” That’s incredibly reductive.

As for your second point, Elon’s tweets and blog posts make it clear he’s looking for a coalition of investors including existing shareholders. Saying Saudi Arabia will own Tesla would be an exaggeration at best.

 

[notacoalminer]

To those who forget history. To those who see nothing wrong with major dealings with despotic regimes. An interesting look into the history of GM and Ford

"Switzerland was just a repository of looted funds. GM was an integral part of the German war effort. The Nazis could have invaded Poland and Russia without Switzerland. They could not have done so without GM."

The relationship of Ford and GM to the Nazi regime goes back to the 1920s and 1930s, when the American car companies competed against each other for access to the lucrative German market. Hitler was an admirer of American mass production techniques and an avid reader of the antisemitic tracts penned by Henry Ford.

Washingtonpost.com: Ford and GM Scrutinized for Alleged Nazi Collaboration

up until Pearl Harbor, Dearborn made huge revenues by producing war matériel for the Reich and that the man it selected to run its German subsidiary was an enthusiastic backer of Hitler. German Ford served as an “arsenal of Nazism” with the consent of headquarters in Dearborn, says a US Army report prepared in 1945.

Moreover, Ford’s cooperation with the Nazis continued until at least August 1942–eight months after the United States entered the war–through its properties in Vichy France.

Ford and the Führer

 

[notacoalminer]

"We need to use our diplomatic and more traditional intelligence assets to bring pressure on the governments of Qatar and Saudi Arabia, which are providing clandestine financial and logistic support to Isis and other radical groups in the region.” This was evidently received wisdom in the upper ranks of the US government,

We finally know what Hillary Clinton knew all along – Saudi Arabia is funding Isis

the exclusionary Saudi version of Sunni Islam, with its denigration of Jews and Christians, as well as of Muslims of Shiite, Sufi and other traditions, may have made some people vulnerable to the lure of Al Qaeda, the Islamic State and other violent jihadist groups. “There’s only so much dehumanizing of the other that you can be exposed to — and exposed to as the word of God — without becoming susceptible to recruitment,”

“They promote a very toxic form of Islam that draws sharp lines between a small number of true believers and everyone else, Muslim and non-Muslim,” he said, providing ideological fodder for violent jihadists.

Yet at the same time, “they’re our partners in counterterrorism,”

The reach of the Saudis has been stunning, touching nearly every country with a Muslim population, from the Gothenburg Mosque in Sweden to the King Faisal Mosque in Chad, from the King Fahad Mosque in Los Angeles to the Seoul Central Mosque in South Korea. Support has come from the Saudi government; the royal family; Saudi charities; and Saudi-sponsored organizations including the World Muslim League, the World Assembly of Muslim Youth and the International Islamic Relief Organization, providing the hardware of impressive edifices and the software of preaching and teaching.

Saudis and Extremism: ‘Both the Arsonists and the Firefighters’

 

[jacobp]

I know for a fact with 100% certainty that Tesla's profit already goes to child molesters, murderers, con artists, or insert whatever the heck you want. Tesla is a public traded company and any of the described people already bought Tesla shares..you just don't know who. I am supporting Tesla, whoever makes money off Tesla is just the consequences of their success and there's nothing you can do about it if it was sold to the Saudi or Jesus himself.

The difference is the actions of unknown individuals in their private lives vs. Giving money to known murderers and terrorists. Your attempt at moral equivalence is striking. If this deal goes through, every single tesla purchase will help perpetuate one of the most heinous and brutal regimes in history. Perhaps you will be able to sleep well knowing your role in this, but i and i hope many others, cannot.