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Saudi Arabia (out of Market Action)

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The difference with Saudi Arabia is that the state-sponsored branch is the one bringing terror on non-believers.

Granted, you could make the argument that whatever branch of evangelical Christianity thought Donald Trump was a good idea is also bringing terror on non-believers, and that's a reason to oppose the US. (I do actually oppose that element of the US.) But, it's not actually the official state religion (per the First Amendment, there cannot be a state religion), so there is at least that?
 
The world won't be cleaner if you still have major player polluting our planet continuously and denying them when they want to make a change.

If there is one thing I learned from when I worked for sustainable development task force put together by Gore, it was this. You can't just always have your biggest environmental buddies at the table if you want to make true big positive change for the planet, you need to open the door wider enabling much bigger leverage for change. I have been thinking about this all weekend. Thanks ProtomanX for your courage and clarity in this post.
 
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The difference with Saudi Arabia is that the state-sponsored branch is the one bringing terror on non-believers.

Yes, they practice Wahhabism, but within that belief, there are still multiple sub-branch considering each teachers belief varies from one and another. You are correct that the major difference is one is state-sponsor and one isn't, but remember many US politicians donate to churches and in court, we have to touch the bible to swear we are telling the truth. So, in a lot of way, Christianity is indirectly sponsored by US
 
The difference with Saudi Arabia is that the state-sponsored branch is the one bringing terror on non-believers.

Granted, you could make the argument that whatever branch of evangelical Christianity thought Donald Trump was a good idea is also bringing terror on non-believers, and that's a reason to oppose the US. (I do actually oppose that element of the US.) But, it's not actually the official state religion (per the First Amendment, there cannot be a state religion), so there is at least that?
The regime needs terror to keep the dynasty in power *because* their days are counted. Aligning their interests with organization like Tesla is a good way to change this. If you hope that they lose more (because of past actions), you'll get more violence and terror. My 2 cents.

Edit: do you know one org that invested big in good things but didn't improve in the process? Wishing that they can't get onboard (I'm not saying _at the control of the company_, just onboard) is not helping the transition to renewable.
 
I understand that someone who spearheads peace can be surrounded by propaganda from many sides. Today, that propaganda can take the form of fake news, Pallywood, and the human rights "watching" organizations being bought and owned by the actual enemies of humanity. Because of that situation, I suggest we at least take a step back and look at it from an energy transition standpoint.

If wars have been fought over oil (and we want to transition our energy anyway), then it seems that the market forces behind some of the fighting would be dissipated by transitioning to a future type of energy that for whatever reason is preferable (in this case, because it's cleaner for our air, water, land, etc.). Thus, I see a dual purpose behind transitioning to clean energy: to allow the people in the world to transition from economic pressures that some have used in the past for fighting (over fixed mining real estate) to economies based upon self-performance and initiative (building industries related to solar panel creation and integration). While it would not entirely transition because there are still material needs which include mining concerns, it is a less mining oriented business than fossil fuels, and thus would interrupt the utility of fighting over oil real estate. (The other of the dual purposes is that it's our next form of clean energy technologically and economically, which is why the parties are able to be interested in it in the first place, for diversification.)

That in itself should lend credence to the concept that people would naturally become more cooperative in such economies, thus leading to less fighting problems, such as wars, terrorists, battles, anti-humanity actions, etc.

None of this post takes away from my assertion that those currently working for peace are doing so far more than propaganda would want us to know. (To that point, I remark that I knew Middle East politics were too propagandized for me to learn anything about it so I ignored it until I could get honest information about it, so that meant I ignored it for my entire life, until I found an independent analyst in the last few years, in which case I immediately started studying it. That's why I realize it is hard for most people to understand what is going on over there: they have either been misinformed to the point of being totally wrong for the entire time they paid attention to it, or, like me until early 2017, ignored it since they knew the information was bad and still haven't come up with any reliable source of information they can trust. Can you believe that two years ago, I didn't even know the names of the major languages in that area, and I thought Syria was in Africa? Now, I can almost draw a map of half the countries in the Middle East, and I don't even know where Honduras is, and I thought Costa Rica was an island in the Carribean until a month ago!)
 
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The Saudis are no fools. The know the era of oil is soon to be over.
Elon is no fool - he wont let the Saudis get a majority part of Tesla.

What happen if tesla fails? A few more decades - and oil is still dead.. The Saudis is way better of getting a large part of TEsla - and make sure the transitions of a success and that Tesla grow as large as the company can as quick as it can. We have now access to capital - everything whioch we need to speed up reckless growth. :-D China and the Saudis combined - nothing can stop Tesla if this deal go through.


The fools in this scenario are the shorts - working hard to kill this climb I noticed. :) What do they have, a few 100k share to throw at this break out? :-D
I would ad, there is a lot of sun and useless land in Saudi Arabia. A "duh" statement, but when you have geography on your side...? Kinda physics base principle.

Nonetheless, the Yemen war is possible only with US support, something we can have influence over in time. I can't imagine an investor interest in siding in conflict between Sunni and Shia Islam.
 
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Agree to that, the other side of him is all the violence. Not much good is a sustainable future if we are back to the stone age. We can only see if he can manage to dial back on that. I agree that his first few terms to power he is stuck with the backward violent ways of dealing with affairs due to the culture. But so far, the outlook is not good.
I'll try to say this as politely as possible. From my point of view, your information does not agree with my information. KSA, as one of the preeminant leaders of GCC, has been defending against terrible insane massively murdering evil forces including terrorists, and GCC has been using methods to minimize collateral damage that have saved the lives of countless people including misguided and/or enslaved youth and soldiers. The entire enemy propaganda is using the very notion of human rights as a wedge to try to stop the good side from winning by blaming the good people for doing things they aren't doing. The evil propagandists make it seem like the good people are causing all of the mass murders, when in fact it's the evil people doing it in order to blame others; the evil side is so evil, they actually kill their own and use the dead bodies as propaganda against their enemies; it's truly sick. It's literally the difference between good independent societies of liberty vs. evil slavery societies. There is currently a "boogyman", the Iran Mullahs, that fund all of it, but when that gets dismantled (soon), there will likely be leftover (weaker) branches of evil that need to be individually handled, and we need a strong force in the world able to handle that, and that is the GCC for the forseable decades, especially (but not exclusively) in their region.
 
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If there is one thing I learned from when I worked for sustainable development task force put together by Gore, it was this. You can't just always have your biggest environmental buddies at the table if you want to make true big positive change for the planet, you need to open the door wider enabling much bigger leverage for change. I have been thinking about this all weekend. Thanks ProtomanX for your courage and clarity in this post.
Exactly. That's the same thought I had when I was a teenager (1980s) planning on transitioning the whole world's energy. Basically, it was one of the hardest weeks of my life as I had to contemplate offering Shell, Texaco, Chevron, other existing interests, etc. a hand in the future, because, after all, it is they we want to transition. Elon and I are the same age, so he lucked out and had a better path in life with respect to industrial success, but I'm sure we had extremely similar thoughts on the issue, as you do now. But I'm a little more open minded than Elon, so there's that.
 
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Re Saudi instability. The leadership is, finally, going through a generational evolution. I can't stomach its foreign policy, perceive some small change in domestic civil rights—particularly for women—but we should all applaud the energy diversification. There is some faint effort to rein in Wahabi leaders.
 
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Ulmo, would you please share your sources on the KSA and human rights as you obviously have worked harder at discerning more honest sources than most of us on this forum?
Yes it is one thing to throw assertions at other sources and not disclose your's.
We certainly need to encourage human rights at all level's and of course we have our own issues here in the USA. However much it may seem that the evangelical Christians are running the show here...we DO NOT have a state controlled religion that promulgates the nonsense that is Salafis/Wahhabis.

My thought is no one would take my offer up thread to travel to SA and walk around with out KNOWING full well they could not dress as they wished if a woman not hand out leaflets for jesus or any other fairy tail figure they thought of.
 
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Got a quote? It seems to be paywalled.

I found this:
Congress finalizes CFIUS reform bill to broaden national security reviews of foreign investments | Insights | DLA Piper Global Law Firm

This seems to indicate that CFIUS can review whatever it wants to?

The "non-passive" restriction here seems to mean that declaration of passive status is a permanent way to avoid CFIUS for a <20% investment. But I haven't seen the text of the bill.

We also get something regarding investments with a "substantial interest", which is super vague. But apparently the definition of substantial interest specifically is "excluding investments with a less than 10 percent voting interest." Is that where you're getting 10% from?

The Saudis could get non-voting shares. That gets around that.

Regarding the CFIUS - Keep in mind that unfortunately, both Obama & Trump Administrations have sold over $100 billion worth of arms to Saudi Arabia. :mad: